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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Dryaan View Post
    As you say, you're entitled to your preferences. Having a choice to make instead of a straightforward path gives, imo, more enjoyment. Assassination is without any doubt one of the easiest spec in the game, having a (small) part of it being not totally obvious adds fun -for me, again.

    And you're quick to judge. I don't see how liking multiple choices instead of an unique way equals "omg omg i need my class to be real gamers only". Cmon, we are talking about assassination, the 3 buttons-2 buff spec. Having 3 potential aoe rotations isn't 'needless complexity', it gives depth to the spec.
    Some people want to spam 1 for single target and aoe at the same time. The rebels in that group want 1 for single target and 2 for aoe.

    Granted I really do enjoy the laid back feeling of assassination. I like that to be a good assassination rogue there are things that I need know and to pay attention rather than mindlessly smashing a keyboard as fast as I can. The whole energy system is really well designed so that it has it's limitations but you can play within them building an energy pool to let loose in a burst or just keep up a normal rotation. It also allows for you to not having to fill every gcd since as long as you aren't energy capped and aren't wasting cp you're doing it right.

    I just don't understand why anyone would say that assassination needs a buff anywhere. It's such a strong class right now. Hell I don't know why I don't see more rogues out there. When I hop into an LFR 90% of the time I'm the only rogue in the group. Maybe cause locks are still flavor of the expansion?

  2. #42
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    I for one am happy not much is expected out of asass AoE, trash becomes a moment for me to do actual important things. But, it does suck when you have two major bosses in a tier that are basically just trash packs... then we look a little slackish.

  3. #43
    I dont think assassination AOE NUMBERS need an actual buff, I just wish the AOE rotation in general felt a little less... slow

    The feel of doing FoK + 1pt ruptures is nice. I like that rotation. It requires me to keep track of rupture timers on different mobs and pick ones where it's falling off or non-existent. It feels like there is some skill invovled.

    What I dont like is how much energy FoK takes. I don't like waiting for what feels like eternity to FoK again. I think it they made it cost less energy, or able to cast more often in some way, that it would relieve a lot of the ramp up + QoL issues.

  4. #44
    Our AoE is fine imo, Shadow blades gives OP AoE.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Placebo View Post
    Redirect glyph will make assasination AoE a fair bit nicer, for all those times when you accidently FoK off a target that has rupture.
    That's what I was looking forward too. I'll agree Assassin AoE is pretty miserable in execution; I'd like to see a point to CT. Of course, if I had my druthers, I'd rather get a kind of rupture cleave or envonom cleave instead.

  6. #46
    I think what they should do is make Crimson Tempest trigger VW, maybe at a lower proc rate, around 50% or so. it means we no longer need to juggle poisons+rupture+energy+combopoints on X targets.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  7. #47
    Grunt Mallybabe's Avatar
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    I see a lot of people saying that "Rogues are already OP, they don't need more AOE, use rupture to multidot, every class is different with their specialties..."

    WELL I am not sure where you guys are thinking but... Is there actually a fight in ToT that is possible to multi-rupture before the things die? NO THERE ISNT. Maybe for Twin Consorts... But that is not AOE. Do you guys realise that Warlocks/Mages keep up with our burst and sustain and aoe harder than us in an instant?

    "Our AoE is fine imo, Shadow blades gives OP AoE."
    Are you high as to actually use Shadow blades to AOE instead of using it with vendetta to burst your single target damage?

    I don't mean to offend people, but WE DO NEED A BUFF, there is absolutely no point for me to AOE anymore on some fights like Tortos and Leishen, because other classes like warlocks and tanks are doing so much damage that mine does not actually matter.

    -A pretty good solution would be to buff FoK with a lower energy cost, that would help us get more poison application procs off, help us get more FoK physical dmg, and help us burst AOE, aka saving up energy and bursting 5+ GCDs of FOK quickly.
    -Another solution would be making Crimson Tempest a HUGE BURST of Aoe dmg, like "chaos wave".

    I am quite sure blizzard isn't really reading this thread, but it is a nice idea to dream I guess.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mallybabe View Post
    WELL I am not sure where you guys are thinking but... Is there actually a fight in ToT that is possible to multi-rupture before the things die? NO THERE ISNT. Maybe for Twin Consorts... But that is not AOE. Do you guys realise that Warlocks/Mages keep up with our burst and sustain and aoe harder than us in an instant?
    You should multi-rupt on:

    • Horridon
    • Council
    • H Megaera
    • Ji-kun
    • H Durumu
    • Primordius
    • Dark Animus
    • H Iron Qon
    • Twins (and more on H Twins)
    • Ra-den

    6/12N and 10/13H. If you get extra Bolt adds on Lei Shen or even if Diffusion adds make it to melee range, that's +1. Granted, some of these are just cleave situations, not straight-up AoE, but all we have is cleave until 5/6/7+ targets. The only fight with "real" AoE this tier is Tortos, and a lot of people just kite bats instead of killing them.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    You should multi-rupt on:

    • Horridon
    • Council
    • H Megaera
    • Ji-kun
    • H Durumu
    • Primordius
    • Dark Animus
    • H Iron Qon
    • Twins (and more on H Twins)
    • Ra-den

    6/12N and 10/13H. If you get extra Bolt adds on Lei Shen or even if Diffusion adds make it to melee range, that's +1. Granted, some of these are just cleave situations, not straight-up AoE, but all we have is cleave until 5/6/7+ targets. The only fight with "real" AoE this tier is Tortos, and a lot of people just kite bats instead of killing them.
    so you should rupture the bloods on primordius? is the energy such a big increase that it outweighs doing damage to the boss itself?
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    so you should rupture the bloods on primordius? is the energy such a big increase that it outweighs doing damage to the boss itself?
    The Megaera head catch-22 as discussed previously. You can technically net a profit by moving rupture to an add you don't intend to kill, but the theoretical gain is minimal, and not worth the effort of keeping poison applied for the duration - HOWEVER, if you do want to kill the add, it is absolutely a good idea to rupture it.

  11. #51
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    You should multi-rupt on:

    • Horridon
    • Council
    • H Megaera
    • Ji-kun
    • H Durumu
    • Primordius
    • Dark Animus
    • H Iron Qon
    • Twins (and more on H Twins)
    • Ra-den

    6/12N and 10/13H. If you get extra Bolt adds on Lei Shen or even if Diffusion adds make it to melee range, that's +1. Granted, some of these are just cleave situations, not straight-up AoE, but all we have is cleave until 5/6/7+ targets. The only fight with "real" AoE this tier is Tortos, and a lot of people just kite bats instead of killing them.
    It's worth it to multi-rupture on H Durumu adds? They die before you can bat your eyelashes at it.
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-07-10 at 10:51 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    so you should rupture the bloods on primordius? is the energy such a big increase that it outweighs doing damage to the boss itself?
    Yeah, I can't see that really being worth it for a rogue. Even on heroic, since you can't tank the black ooze near the boss, I don't see a point in double dotting there either.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    It's worth it to multi-rupture on H Durumu adds? They die before you can bat your eyelashes at it.
    The walls.

  14. #54
    as far as i was aware assassinations AoE was pretty decent. multi-rupture on targets up to 4 i think, then FoK and Envenom, making sure you're almost energy capped before the envemon to have increased poison spread during FoK

  15. #55
    I will also ask the OP:

    Are you reforged for haste, or mastery?




    When I went to haste reforging and gemming, my aoe went down, and my single target went up. My aoe went down by a lot more than my single target went up. If I needed to spam fan for a boss, I would switch to mastery reforge for that.


    That being said, I do think mutilate could use better aoe. However, as the second post semi-rudely pointed out, when a spec is so excellent single target, which is such a pursued carrot, chasing extra aoe doesn't seem that noble. It's easy to lust after chain lightning damage during a loose grouping of aoe things, but what do you think about doing elemental shaman damage on, say, Jinrokh? They pay for that chain lightning.

    Now, combat, I think, pays a similar price with no consideration delivered. But mutilate, I think, is excellent right now in pve.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    I think what they should do is make Crimson Tempest trigger VW, maybe at a lower proc rate, around 50% or so. it means we no longer need to juggle poisons+rupture+energy+combopoints on X targets.
    This totally, I really wish this was true, but not 50%, maybe 30, so we still need target switching with up to 3 targets, but more than that and crimson tempest hoooooooooo.

  17. #57
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    The walls.
    Those melt pretty fast too, but I suppose it depends slightly on group comp.

  18. #58
    My only problem is the disappearing combo points as mentioned earlier in this thread. I very often find I cannot simply get a rupture up on one target, then switch to a new target and use FoK to build my cp's for the second rupture. Unless I use a combo point producing single target ability on the new target, my cp's continue to build on the previous target instead of the new target. I've tried a variety of methods to test to see if this is a bug (mainly on tortos trash) and it really seems to be.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    My only problem is the disappearing combo points as mentioned earlier in this thread. I very often find I cannot simply get a rupture up on one target, then switch to a new target and use FoK to build my cp's for the second rupture. Unless I use a combo point producing single target ability on the new target, my cp's continue to build on the previous target instead of the new target. I've tried a variety of methods to test to see if this is a bug (mainly on tortos trash) and it really seems to be.
    In my experience, that only happens if there's still a CP on another target or (sometimes) if a target dies with CPs on it. Redirect, non-targeted finishers, or a single-target builder (as you said) fix it.

    I only think the CPs on a dead target part is a bug. FoK CP building could be coded better, but it's definitely workable.

  20. #60
    I don't mind different specs having different aoe methods it's really the biggest variant that rogues have which is how they aoe. Sub is FoK - CT but is overall bad in raids and needs a spec wide buff to single target as well as aoe. Combat is very strong in a cleave but in a mass aoe situation falls behind pretty fast... not ideal but strong in one area weak in another is acceptable (although combat still needs an overall buff). Assassination has the best but worst game play mechanics. Similar to how they took aoe out of the rotation of paladin's single target they need to figure out a way to take single target out of assassinations aoe mechanics.

    Would be nice if they reworked crimson tempest to an assassination version similar to how envenom is the same thing as evis but worked for assassination. Allowing crimson tempest to proc sanguinary veins would just be too strong. First off because the energy regen would be just absolutely off the charts unless the put a cap on it. Secondly the raw damage would be too high

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