Itemsquish reminder

[Aquamonkey]

Apparently Blizzard does since, as you've quoted many times, GC said their goal is that it wouldn't hurt anyone's ability to solo old content.

How about reading the context? If it's off by a little, it doesn't make any difference. Rebalancing old content would be nowhere near as stringent as current content. They can play fast and loose with the numbers and it would still be solo'able.

[jbombard]

Blizzard is not above breaking solo'ing either. Anyone remember when they replaced the Vanilla versions of Naxx and Ony in WotLK? Or the Vanilla world dragons? Or ZA? Or ZG?

Breaking soloing and revamping old content are not the same thing, and I think you are smart enough to know the difference.

[Aquamonkey]

They wouldn't be wasting time on testing and fixing old content with the release of a new expansion if they didn't do a squish. If they do a squish they have to go back and make sure all the old content still works and that is a whole lot of encounters and scripts that need to be looked it. All that time could be spent on developing new content if they don't waste their time with a squish.

Testing and balancing are not done by the development team. The devs only get involved if something is actually broken with the encounter.

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Breaking soloing and revamping old content are not the same thing, and I think you are smart enough to know the difference.

They removed the ability of people to solo that content, it's essentially the same.

[Abysal]

They removed the ability of people to solo that content, it's essentially the same.

Removing something because it no longer fits in the game or because they are using it with more recent lore is different than not altering the story/lore at all, only numbers.

It's not essentially the same thing and never will be no matter how many times you say it is.

[Aquamonkey]

Removing something because it no longer fits in the game or because they are using it with more recent lore is different than not altering the story/lore at all, only numbers.

It's not essentially the same thing and never will be no matter how many times you say it is.

Changing numbers alters relative power. Result: people can't solo it.
Removing an old version of a raid. Result: people can't solo it.

Tell me more about how they are so different.

[Abysal]

Changing numbers alters relative power. Result: people can't solo it.
Removing an old version of a raid. Result: people can't solo it.

Tell me more about how they are so different.

Changing numbers breaking soloing: I can still go there and try to solo it, only to fail where I once succeeded.

Removing an old version of a raid and replacing it with something new: I now have something new to do, and I will not fail where I once succeeded because I no longer have the option to try.

Your argument is basically like saying raising the rim in basketball by 2 feet is no different than removing baskets altogether.

Edit: on top of that, in the number changing scenario, it's not going to go from "everyone can solo it" to "no one can solo it." It'd be more likely to go from "everyone can solo it" to "DKs and Hunters but no one else" can solo it because some classes are already better at soloing to begin with regardless of stats and item inflation is the only reason other classes can solo things.

The point being that it doesn't hurt everyone equally whereas removing an old raid does.

[jbombard]

Testing and balancing are not done by the development team. The devs only get involved if something is actually broken with the encounter.

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They removed the ability of people to solo that content, it's essentially the same.

Some testing is done by the development team before it gets passed over, the bulk is likely done by quality assurance. However if the encounter is not working correctly including balancing, the developers are the ones who have to look it at because the majority of it is scripted.

[Aquamonkey]

Changing numbers breaking soloing: I can still go there and try to solo it, only to fail where I once succeeded.

Removing an old version of a raid and replacing it with something new: I now have something new to do, and I will not fail where I once succeeded because I not longer have the option to try.

Your argument is basically like saying raising the rim in basketball by 2 feet is no different than removing baskets altogether.

People were just as pissed when they removed the old versions as people are when they think the squish will destroy solo'ing.

Your real argument should be about items that are completely removed from the game when they get rid of that content.

[jbombard]

They removed the ability of people to solo that content, it's essentially the same.

Players can still solo it they just need better gear to do so. No content is taken away with a revamp, when you break something there is less content available.

[Aquamonkey]

Players can still solo it they just need better gear to do so. No content is taken away with a revamp, when you break something there is less content available.

They can go back and solo the revamp once they get better gear.

Breaking something is only a temporary setback to solo'ing until they fix it. Even quicker than having to acquire better gear. Well, maybe not always quicker depending on playstyle.

[jbombard]

They can go back and solo the revamp once they get better gear.

Breaking something is only a temporary setback to solo'ing until they fix it. Even quicker than having to acquire better gear.

We have people soloing current raid content, however if something is broken it doesn't matter how good your gear is it needs to be fixed. Fixing after release requires development time on top of all the testing and bug fixing they would have to do internally. A lot of work to do because some people don't like big numbers.

[Abysal]

People were just as pissed when they removed the old versions as people are when they think the squish will destroy solo'ing.

Your real argument should be about items that are completely removed from the game when they get rid of that content.

Don't tell me what my real argument should be.

Either way, the soloing of old content doesn't even bother me that much. It's the fact that it's spending dev resources on something with a questionable return. The computational issues may never become issues due to Moore's law. The cosmetic/aesthetic issues are strictly subjective. The ilvl leap between expansions could just as easily be argued to be a positive as a negative.

So unless the computational issues become real, serious issues, I'd rather the devs spend their time on something more important than subjective aesthetic changes.

[Aquamonkey]

Either way, the soloing of old content doesn't even bother me that much. It's the fact that it's spending dev resources on something with a questionable return. The computational issues may never become issues due to Moore's law. The cosmetic/aesthetic issues are strictly subjective. The ilvl leap between expansions could just as easily be argued to be a positive as a negative.

So unless the computational issues become real, serious issues, I'd rather the devs spend their time on something more important than subjective aesthetic changes.

Upgrading all the WoW hardware supporting 8 million accounts isn't free. Plugging in a software change they've already finished (QA aside) seems quite cheap by comparison.

[jbombard]

Upgrading all the WoW hardware supporting 8 million accounts isn't free. Pugging in a software change they've already finished (QA aside) seems quite cheap by comparison.

Hardware gets upgraded as part of their regular hardware maintenance cycle, no special hardware upgrades are needed.

[Abysal]

Upgrading all the WoW hardware supporting 8 million accounts isn't free. Plugging in a software change they've already finished (QA aside) seems quite cheap by comparison.

People upgrade their own hardware gradually over time. I doubt there's many Vanilla WoW players using the same machines they did back then. All they have to do is something they already do: Stop supporting extremely outdated hardware when a new expansion comes out.

As for the software they've already had internally, we have no idea how comprehensive it was. They stated that they had something they were testing, but we have no idea if they had squished all content internally or just a "test batch" of content.

[jbombard]

People upgrade their own hardware gradually over time. I doubt there's many Vanilla WoW players using the same machines they did back then. All they have to do is something they already do: Stop supporting extremely outdated hardware when a new expansion comes out.

As for the software they've already had internally, we have no idea how comprehensive it was. They stated that they had something they were testing, but we have no idea if they had squished all content internally or just a "test batch" of content.

Player PC hardware isn't likely a big issue anyway, except maybe for addons(and the authors can work it out). All of the game play calculations are done on the server.

[Abysal]

Player PC hardware isn't likely a big issue anyway, except maybe for addons(and the authors can work it out). All of the game play calculations are done on the server.

And Blizzard already upgrades their server hardware from time to time with or without item inflation.

[jbombard]

And Blizzard already upgrades their server hardware from time to time with or without item inflation.

Exactly just about any large enterprise is replacing hardware on a schedule based on the expected life of the hardware they are using, because you don't want to replace it after it breaks you want to prevent it from breaking.

[sizzlinsauce]

It's funny because that chest piece looks like that stats we will see on fresh level 95's if not higher. seeing as the 600 legendary endgame cloak is near it minus 800 str

[jbombard]

It is a tough problem because they want players to grow and feel like they are getting more powerful, and if you look at how they game scales you can see they have a specific amount that they feel like is the right amount of scaling to make it feel good. If you don't squish the numbers get bigger and bigger which some people have a problem with visually parsing, but if you squish that you are no longer at that magic "feels good" progression level. Initially they can squish a bit by just touching the tier gear levels, however that isn't a huge improvement and soon we are back where we are now, only then you have to start making more drastic changes. Numbers continue to scale up and once again we are back where we are today with nothing left to squish. Because it doesn't solve anything. It simply postpones something that isn't a problem of current game design, it is a feature.