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  1. #341
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Mobs don't have ilvls. And having some wake-up calls during leveling isn't really bad. It is just a matter of completing some quests before you will start to outpace mobs again.
    I'm not sure the awakening has to be quite so rude, though. That's why the game feels like it slows to a crawl in levelling as soon as you reach level 80 (or 85); levelling is so quick earlier on, then really slows down as you approach the summit. I'd honestly much rather that felt much more fluid than it currently does, and it's impossible for a new player not to notice it and wonder what on earth is going on.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    They keep getting asked about it and they are still saying they want to do it.

    Also, threads like these keep popping up.
    They're far less common and much more lopsided to the anti-squish side now. Also, they keep popping up because the same few people keep making them, and they rarely, if ever, contain anything new.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Are you scared of small numbers?
    No, I just don't wanna feel weaker. If they wanna decrease the exponential it's fine to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    There's the computational argument Blizzard mentioned. If you don't want to believe them, that's your problem.
    I know how computers work that's why I call it a lie.

  4. #344
    I don't understand why people who want the item-squish don't instead support the mega damage solution ? Blizz themselves, in that initial blog post, laid out the problems and two potential solutions: squish and mega-damage.

    "If we can make numbers such as floating combat text and boss health and item stats a little easier to read at a glance, then maybe we can endure numbers increasing exponentially for many digits to come. Now there are some very real computational limitations. PCs just can’t quickly perform math on very large numbers, so we’d have to solve all of those problems as well."

    Key parts bolded. If you can accept with the squish their stated goal of not affecting relative difficulty of older content, then you have to accept their stated goal of the mega damage option being a viable solution to the digits problem and that they'd figure a way to handle the large-number-math problem, as they're saying they would try to.

    So ... why squish instead of mega damage ? Blizz has offered both as viable solutions to the problems they see. Mega damage option does not require them to re-itemize every item in the game level 60+, does not require re-tuning of every post-Vanilla mob.
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  5. #345
    It still doesn't bother me, might be off putting at first but would get used to it.
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  6. #346
    Deleted
    This should have happened a long time ago imo.

    Would certainly make the leveling-experience feel more rewarding because items will no longer be obsolete so quickly. I also doubt it it will have much negative impact.

    As for player reaction, I expect some may QQ over it for a few weeks and express how weird it feels. But 2-3 weeks after the update and most people will have forgotten about it.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    So? It's just fucking numbers. I don't see why people care so much about it. The numbers are already up. It's a waste of time scaling down EVERY mob in wow.
    Ppl getting so hung up on this is right up there with how excited ppl get over the color of the name of their or other ppls gear. This does seem like it has had way too much time in the lime light and will take a fair amount of effort to change for very little if any pay out.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  8. #348
    I would totally LOVE item squish, like old days, crit for 700 - omg 700!
    Now crits are so high it's not even funny. 1m, 1m, 1m, 1m... yeah whatever.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokas View Post
    I would totally LOVE item squish, like old days, crit for 700 - omg 700!
    Now crits are so high it's not even funny. 1m, 1m, 1m, 1m... yeah whatever.
    Switch the numbers around and you've got the same argument anti-squish. It's not very compelling.

  10. #350
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    I don't understand why people who want the item-squish don't instead support the mega damage solution ? Blizz themselves, in that initial blog post, laid out the problems and two potential solutions: squish and mega-damage.

    "If we can make numbers such as floating combat text and boss health and item stats a little easier to read at a glance, then maybe we can endure numbers increasing exponentially for many digits to come. Now there are some very real computational limitations. PCs just can’t quickly perform math on very large numbers, so we’d have to solve all of those problems as well."

    Key parts bolded. If you can accept with the squish their stated goal of not affecting relative difficulty of older content, then you have to accept their stated goal of the mega damage option being a viable solution to the digits problem and that they'd figure a way to handle the large-number-math problem, as they're saying they would try to.

    So ... why squish instead of mega damage ? Blizz has offered both as viable solutions to the problems they see. Mega damage option does not require them to re-itemize every item in the game level 60+, does not require re-tuning of every post-Vanilla mob.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    We’re trying the solution with commas, and K’s, and M’s, and to be honest, it helps a lot, and our hope is, by 6.0 or 7.0, players are demanding the item squish, and by then it’s not controversial at all. It’s like a celebration when we finally do it. (Source)

    I don't think Mists was hurt much from its absence, but it's still on the table for the future. (Source)

    We think the item level inflation has worked fine in MoP. We haven't given up on the idea of a squish, though TBH we were hoping to see even more demand for from players. (Source)
    Blizzard has a clear preference for the squish. Even after the implementation of 'K' and 'M' notation, they still want the squish.

    Notice he said "when we finally do it" not "if we finally do it." It's going to happen, so you might as well get used to the idea.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-05 at 06:14 PM.

  11. #351
    The Lightbringer Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    My problem is not the size of numbers these days, it's the stupid scaling that's happening. I don't care if our dps and hp is even higher next xpac, but I don't like how just 10 ilvls is such a huge jump in dps. It's nearly impossible to keep up with equal or even lesser skilled players if you're behind in gear right now.
    This is my biggest issue with everything that is going on atm. Every player is so very gear dependant. It really makes which specs scale better with gear a very glaring issue. My DK and Pally are at about the same ilvl now, and my DK sims about 10K higher than my pally does. This along with all the points several others and especially Aquamonkey have made make a very strong argument for the squish. I almost hope they have it in and working on their internal 6.0 servers so that no one can argue about it...

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizendragon View Post
    This is my biggest issue with everything that is going on atm. Every player is so very gear dependant. It really makes which specs scale better with gear a very glaring issue. My DK and Pally are at about the same ilvl now, and my DK sims about 10K higher than my pally does. This along with all the points several others and especially Aquamonkey have made make a very strong argument for the squish. I almost hope they have it in and working on their internal 6.0 servers so that no one can argue about it...
    So if your dk is sims at 110k and your paladin is at 100k now (purely example). Let's say that after the item squish your dk now sims at 11k and your paladin is at 10k. You do realize that the dps difference between them is the same percentage wise right? So your paladin is going to be just as bad (number wise) now as it will be after the squish.

    It is rather interesting to see people get their knickers in a twist over numbers.

  13. #353
    The Lightbringer Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    People upgrade their own hardware gradually over time. I doubt there's many Vanilla WoW players using the same machines they did back then. All they have to do is something they already do: Stop supporting extremely outdated hardware when a new expansion comes out.
    But how far back is considered "extremely outdated"? Not everyone has the money to be upgrading their computer every 1-2 years let alone once every 5 years. Computers are relatively expensive for a person on a budget. The higher the system requirement the fewer people that will be available to play...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ngc2440 View Post
    So if your dk is sims at 110k and your paladin is at 100k now (purely example). Let's say that after the item squish your dk now sims at 11k and your paladin is at 10k. You do realize that the dps difference between them is the same percentage wise right? So your paladin is going to be just as bad (number wise) now as it will be after the squish.

    It is rather interesting to see people get their knickers in a twist over numbers.
    This whole argument is "people gett[ing] their knickers in a twist over numbers." The fact here that you're dodging is that scaling issues are more apparent and will become an even bigger issue soon if the squish isn't addressed. This is like a big house of cards atm. It only takes one thing to make it all come crashing down. It will happen; people need to realize that.

  14. #354
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    Lets just pray the item squish never gets implemented. I like seeing big numbers everywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoonalol View Post
    wat are the 2 gob mounts.. i only know the trike

  15. #355
    I don't want an item squish. I'd be happy if everyone does 10m DPS, doesn't effect me at all.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Blizzard has a clear preference for the squish. Even after the implementation of 'K' and 'M' notation, they still want the squish.

    Notice he said "when we finally do it" not "if we finally do it." It's going to happen, so you might as well get used to the idea.
    You seem to ignore the parts where he says "hope", "on the table" and "hoping". Also, the "when we finally do it" was in a sentence that is dependent on people actually wanting it. There's an "if", it's just not written out.

    You really need to do something about your confirmation bias, it's getting out of hand.

  17. #357
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You seem to ignore the parts where he says "hope", "on the table" and "hoping". Also, the "when we finally do it" was in a sentence that is dependent on people actually wanting it. There's an "if", it's just not written out.

    You really need to do something about your confirmation bias, it's getting out of hand.
    You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

    Blizzard doing the item squish is not dependent on player demand. They are hoping more players will be on board when they do it so it's not controversial.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Solo'ing raids is not an intended part of the game.
    Soloing old raids IS an intended part of the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Blizzard is going to prioritize fixing balance problems with the new expansion content over fixing the balance problems of solo'ing old content.
    A squish will simply be some percentage damage reduction across the board. All they have to do is apply the same
    reduction to old content. It may not be balanced, but it will still be available for people to solo.

    I agree, however, that they won't spend any time making sure they got it exactly right for old content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You seem to ignore the parts where he says "hope", "on the table" and "hoping". Also, the "when we finally do it" was in a sentence that is dependent on people actually wanting it. There's an "if", it's just not written out.

    You really need to do something about your confirmation bias, it's getting out of hand.
    Aquamonkey doesn't know any more than the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Notice he said "when we finally do it" not "if we finally do it." It's going to happen, so you might as well get used to the idea.
    You're reading far too much into that comment. Especially given the context of the rest of GC's comments, which are far less certain.
    Stating an opinion as fact does not make it fact. Opinions are not fact. So don't be stupid and make a fool of yourself by trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

  19. #359
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blackmore View Post
    Soloing old raids IS an intended part of the game.
    Soloing old raids IS an intended part of the game.[/quote]
    No it's not. It's a consequence of power creep. They didn't design those raids thinking, "How can we make this raid so that people can solo it 2 years from now."

    Blizzard having to nerf the gold from soloing old raids shows that they didn't intend for people to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blackmore View Post
    A squish will simply be some percentage damage reduction across the board. All they have to do is apply the same reduction to old content. It may not be balanced, but it will still be available for people to solo.
    Just ignore the context of that quote. "It's obsolete content, there is quite a margin of error for it to remain solo'able. Unless something becomes gamebreaking, there's no reason to manually rebalance old content." I was addressing the claims that people keep spouting that it would take a lot of dev resources from new content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blackmore View Post
    Aquamonkey doesn't know any more than the rest of us.
    GC clearly says they are going to do it some time in the future, they just hope it's not controversial when they do it. He says "WHEN" not "IF".
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    We’re trying the solution with commas, and K’s, and M’s, and to be honest, it helps a lot, and our hope is, by 6.0 or 7.0, players are demanding the item squish, and by then it’s not controversial at all. It’s like a celebration when we finally do it. (Source)
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blackmore View Post
    You're reading far too much into that comment. Especially given the context of the rest of GC's comments, which are far less certain.
    What am I reading too much into? They proposed 2 solutions, they already did 1. They've already implemented K's and M's, but they still want to do the squish anyway.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-05 at 09:51 PM.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blackmore View Post
    A squish will simply be some percentage damage reduction across the board. All they have to do is apply the same
    reduction to old content. It may not be balanced, but it will still be available for people to solo.

    I agree, however, that they won't spend any time making sure they got it exactly right for old content.
    No, it won't. It will be an iLvl reduction. Since stats scale exponentially with iLvl, this will affect later expansions more than earlier ones. A linear reduction wouldn't work, as that would affect level 1 chars as much as max level chars. Having 1 health and doing <<1 damage per hit is a bit silly.

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