Brewmaster help

[WOW1]

Hey guys new have a question about monk tanks. We have one in our raid for ToT and his damage taken seems to be all over the place. Some fights hes a little higher than our druid tank others hes 5 million if not more dmg taken. On some fights our druid only tanks adds so i kno those will be different but ones like jin rohk or tortos. Comparing the two when they tanked tortos on different weeks the monk took about 8 million more damage. Could this be that he is not popping cd's correctly/ reforging or gemming correctly? Or is it more related to the difference in tanking classes? Here is our latest log only four bosses on this one due to time constraints in raid. thanks for any help.

worldoflogs.com/reports/vso8wtb8pj3a4097/

[Deleted]

I might be completely wrong here as I just started tanking on a BrM but this is my understanding.

The trouble with BrM, from what I understand, is that staggered damage from a hit is counted as an absorb and thus assumed to be damage actually taken as opposed to shrugged off via purifying brew shortly thereafter. As all absorbs are clumped together in the combat log it's very difficult to account for this when parsing logs.

What you can do however is compare damage taken to healing taken. For instance in your Tortos kill your druid ate ~12m damage and recieved ~11m healing while your monk took ~22.5m damage and recieved ~13m healing.

So your druid required ~93% healing per damage taken while the monk only needed ~57%.

[jvbastel]

Overall, Monks also scale with gear a lot more than some other tanks. If you are having trouble keeping the monk up, that could be the problem.

Brewmaster is responsible for a lot of it's own damage mitigation, so if your tank is not keeping his shuffle up, using guard, elusive brew, etc. at appropriate times, or is not using his globes efficiently, it might make healing harder for you.

[Inthislzon]

Clickable log link -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vso8wtb8pj3a4097/

97% shuffle and over 50% elusive brew on jin. Provided he popped it at the right times (and for this case seems he did) he absolutely DEMOLISHED your druid on damage taken. You'll start noticing when you actually get to bosses that hit for something.

Also a fast workaround WoL "bug" is this.

Add all the stagger-able damage he took (anything physical) multiply it for (1-stagger) where stagger is 20 from stance + 20 from shuffle + averaged 2T15 (12*uptime) + mastery and you get from there the physical damage he really took.

Add stagger (from wol) to that number + whatever magical damage there was on the fight and you have his real damage taken. THAT's the number you want to be comparing, should you want to compare damage taken between a monk and a non-monk.

Also if you do that i recommend you substract self-healing from both tanks, that way you get the healing they required, and i consider that to be the best measure of a tank performance

[Deleted]

Also if you do that i recommend you substract self-healing from both tanks, that way you get the healing they required, and i consider that to be the best measure of a tank performance

Yes, of course. I skipped over this as they had just about equal self-healing on that particular fight, but it is an important consideration.

[Vargarii]

I do notice that it appears there was 0 guard usage and no statue out on that Jin kill. That could be worked on. But it doesn't really seem like their damage is particularly out of line if you compare it without stagger. Some of the other fights it's a little harder for me to tell since i don't analyze logs well and i don't know who had the boss during the highest dmg phases/longest times.

[Alucin]

Clickable log link -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vso8wtb8pj3a4097/

97% shuffle and over 50% elusive brew on jin. Provided he popped it at the right times (and for this case seems he did) he absolutely DEMOLISHED your druid on damage taken. You'll start noticing when you actually get to bosses that hit for something.

Also a fast workaround WoL "bug" is this.

Add all the stagger-able damage he took (anything physical) multiply it for (1-stagger) where stagger is 20 from stance + 20 from shuffle + averaged 2T15 (12*uptime) + mastery and you get from there the physical damage he really took.

Add stagger (from wol) to that number + whatever magical damage there was on the fight and you have his real damage taken. THAT's the number you want to be comparing, should you want to compare damage taken between a monk and a non-monk.

Also if you do that i recommend you substract self-healing from both tanks, that way you get the healing they required, and i consider that to be the best measure of a tank performance

i just subtract the amount of damage taken due to stagger from the total damage taken.

I do notice that it appears there was 0 guard usage and no statue out on that Jin kill. That could be worked on. But it doesn't really seem like their damage is particularly out of line if you compare it without stagger. Some of the other fights it's a little harder for me to tell since i don't analyze logs well and i don't know who had the boss during the highest dmg phases/longest times.

if you switch at 2 talon rakes, and you have the 2 piece bonus, you don't need to use guard. i did that mostly, saved guard for if i had to take more.
then realised it is pretty edge case to need to take like 7 in a row or more so stopped doing it

[Inthislzon]

i just subtract the amount of damage taken due to stagger from the total damage taken.

Doing that doesn't account for purifying brew. May be good for a quick estimation, but it's wrong, and made even worse with 4P, as you purify more often

[Alucin]

depends what number you want though, doesn't it?

that should give me the amount i needed to be healed for, actual damage taken, right?
i'm not really after the pre-stagger damage i would have taken.

edit- oh i see, you're right.
it's still counting the full amount absorbed

[Ampere]

I might be completely wrong here as I just started tanking on a BrM but this is my understanding.

The trouble with BrM, from what I understand, is that staggered damage from a hit is counted as an absorb and thus assumed to be damage actually taken as opposed to shrugged off via purifying brew shortly thereafter. As all absorbs are clumped together in the combat log it's very difficult to account for this when parsing logs.

I didn't verify your math, but these statements are correct when looking at Monk damage taken on WoL. To my knowledge Skada shows accurate damage taken.

[Vargarii]

i just subtract the amount of damage taken due to stagger from the total damage taken.

if you switch at 2 talon rakes, and you have the 2 piece bonus, you don't need to use guard. i did that mostly, saved guard for if i had to take more.
then realised it is pretty edge case to need to take like 7 in a row or more so stopped doing it

I had been referring to Jin'rokh, though. There are plenty of times to use it freely in that fight.