Holy Priest Guide

[Eul]

**Removed**

I am going back the the drawing board. If I end up getting a finish product that I feel is different enough then the current guide I will repost it.

[Yvaelle]

Looks like a good guide so far I'll post up some questions / suggestions tomorrow and see about a sticky

[Blachshma]

Very nice guide, thanks

I don't use any addons bar the usual ones like Recount, DBM,etc. No healing addons and I only heal with the default UI without any macros.

[Eul]

Very nice guide, thanks

I don't use any addons bar the usual ones like Recount, DBM,etc. No healing addons and I only heal with the default UI without any macros.

Thanks, and last time i consistently Healed with no add ons was ZG (original lol)

[Kalibel]

Glyph of binding heal is pretty decent to heal through quills damage when on a nest platform on Jikun fights.

[Eul]

I assume you would replace Renew for it? On that fight, it may be a slightly better option, but I ONLY use binding heal if only me and someone else needs a heal or the tank is about to go down and so am I. Other then that I try to use an AOE heal or 2 single targets. Since quills is big AOE to everyone I'm usually alternating PoH and CoH with cascade.

[Einai]

There's a lot of really bad advice in this guide. There's already have a much better holy guide stickied, I don't see why there should be another.

[Eul]

By all means elaborate what "Bad" advice I am giving. I am more then willing to hear ideas and make adjustments. And I explained how mine differs from the other Holy Guide. I think both have usefulness.

[Kalibel]

I assume you would replace Renew for it? On that fight, it may be a slightly better option, but I ONLY use binding heal if only me and someone else needs a heal or the tank is about to go down and so am I. Other then that I try to use an AOE heal or 2 single targets. Since quills is big AOE to everyone I'm usually alternating PoH and CoH with cascade.

I usually never take the renew glyph, i guess mainly since i only run 25 mans. Honestly binding heal is hardly ever used in my case except for heroic jikun. The quills damage hits pretty hard and sometimes PoH, CoH might not cut it without lucky DI PoM procs.

[Deleted]

Why would you prioritise haste and crit over mastery?

[Kacie]

When using mr robot, it always says haste over mastery not sure why but when i check it , it suggests i gem/reforge haste but i go for a full mastery build, as hes using mr robot i guess that is why he priorities that way, mr robot suggests Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery in holy priest pve builds.

[Blachshma]

There's a lot of really bad advice in this guide. There's already have a much better holy guide stickied, I don't see why there should be another.

That is not a very nice comment. Even if you think some advice is wrong, you can discuss instead of just insulting the OP/guide.

[Nightstorm]

I have to agree there is a lot of misleading advice in this guide. Thank you for sharing however. A few things:

Ask mr robot is dead wrong (go Spirit > mastery > what ev) Most your healing should come from PoM, echo, prayer of healing, the only one that benefits from haste is PoH. Don't spec substats into spells you don't use, like you said you don't really use Renew.

Divine star is a very powerful spell that will save the day on some fights. You should never pick a favorite talent in this tree. Halo is beast for Tortos, Divine star is beast for megaera, Divine star is Beast for Heroic Durumu, Halo is beast for Heroic Animus. If anything I use Cascade the least.

Your glyph info is a little off, You should always have lightspring like you said but PoM glyph is bad for most fights and really bad for Divine insight and really really bad if you have 2 piece. If you can afford the mana Glyph of Circle of healing is a great throughput addition and I would consider Glyph of lightwell for extra charges.

I vote no for this being a sticky

[Crzed]

Unfortunately, I am of the opinion that this is not a proper guide. A true guide should be as unbiased as possible and stay true to the explanation and utilization of holy priest mechanics. A lot of what you say is prefaced by "here is how I do it," or "I don't use this much (so neither should you)," and overall is simply prefaced too much by the words 'I/my'. While opinions can be nice supplemental information in a guide, especially ones from a person with a great deal of experience, yours are often in place of the actual facts and are even often outright incorrect.

Binding heal is one I should probably be using more, however I don't very often. It is a good heal, just tpically if i need to heal me and someone else, there are more people that need heals too and PoH and CoH win out. Though I do cast it and have it bound.

This is an example of a sentence that I feel is not up to guide-quality (and the whole guide is filled with them, unfortunately). It disagrees with itself, is confusing for new holy priests (do I use it or not?), and fails to report how to properly utilize binding heal. If high aoe is going out binding heal can be utilized to provide mana-efficient high hps (in comparison to GH/FH) increased single target throughput while weaving in serendipity-hasted PoH's. In a 10 man raid (which I believe is what you're writing this for) binding heal can be used to refresh renew durations on both yourself and the target while in chakra: serenity (glyphed binding heal refreshes all three healed targets' renews).

All that said, I'm really not trying to flame you or disregard the work you did put in. It's pretty selfless time spent trying to make a guide for others. I just don't think it's the right material for a stickied guide that new or inexperienced priests will find.

[ramennoodleking]

I assume you would replace Renew for it? On that fight, it may be a slightly better option, but I ONLY use binding heal if only me and someone else needs a heal or the tank is about to go down and so am I. Other then that I try to use an AOE heal or 2 single targets. Since quills is big AOE to everyone I'm usually alternating PoH and CoH with cascade.

The fact that you even suggest the renew glyph is awful.

[Eul]

I usually never take the renew glyph, i guess mainly since i only run 25 mans. Honestly binding heal is hardly ever used in my case except for heroic jikun. The quills damage hits pretty hard and sometimes PoH, CoH might not cut it without lucky DI PoM procs.

As stated this guide is NOT for people running heroics. This is for more average players.

Ask mr robot is dead wrong (go Spirit > mastery > what ev) Most your healing should come from PoM, echo, prayer of healing, the only one that benefits from haste is PoH. Don't spec substats into spells you don't use, like you said you don't really use Renew.

AS to why I do Haste over Mastery is the fact I run 10 mans mostly (when not in LFR). And from the reading I have done, Haste beats out Mastery in 10 mans white the priority differs to Spirit > Mastery > Crit > Haste in 25 man. This is a Clarification I will make for sure. If the info I have is wrong, could you point me to somplace that explains? While I no longer join in on the Theorycrafting, I till like to know why something is wrong before I do it. Also as I stated I do not blindly follow Mr. Robot. I think the tool is a good tool, but you really have to adjust the weights and caps in order to tweak it to your own numbers.

Divine star is a very powerful spell that will save the day on some fights. You should never pick a favorite talent in this tree. Halo is beast for Tortos, Divine star is beast for megaera, Divine star is Beast for Heroic Durumu, Halo is beast for Heroic Animus. If anything I use Cascade the least.

Again you are talking heroic fights. This guide is not intended for that. When you are playing at that level you have to seriously pull out all the stops and tweak yourself a lot different then when running casually on normal. I stated from the start this was a basic guide, not something for the people looking to be the best of the best. Those guides are out there.

Your glyph info is a little off, You should always have lightspring like you said but PoM glyph is bad for most fights and really bad for Divine insight and really really bad if you have 2 piece. If you can afford the mana Glyph of Circle of healing is a great throughput addition and I would consider Glyph of lightwell for extra charges.

Now this is something I will look into. I personally find myself wasting the last jump or two of PoM unless it is a big AOE damage fight due to it jumping to someone not taking damage (usually myself lol). THat is actually why I took the glyph. However that was early on in the XPac. I do notice I am not recasting it with jumps available hardly at all. I will give this a shot, I do like the idea of Lightwell and will definitely add it to the list.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, I am of the opinion that this is not a proper guide. A true guide should be as unbiased as possible and stay true to the explanation and utilization of holy priest mechanics. A lot of what you say is prefaced by "here is how I do it," or "I don't use this much (so neither should you)," and overall is simply prefaced too much by the words 'I/my'. While opinions can be nice supplemental information in a guide, especially ones from a person with a great deal of experience, yours are often in place of the actual facts and are even often outright incorrect.

I agree with you. I will be going over the guide over the next few days and try to remove a lot of the statements that are personal. However as this guide is for those not min/maxing some of it will have to be opinion. For example Tier 6 Talent. No cascade is not best for every fight, I admit that. But I think it is overall (at 10 man normal level raiding) going to average out as the best of the 3 for people who are not swapping it out on a per fight basis. But I do think I need to be more clear on some aspects of opinion vs. fact. Something I will work on today. As far as Binding Heal, yes that is terribad, and I will fix that as well.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that you even suggest the renew glyph is awful.

In 10 Man I do a fair amount of single target healing or Tank Healing. Can you elaborate what is so bad about it? I know in 25 man or Heroics this would be a bad glyph. I even state if I am AOE healing I rarely use Renew, and if I was doing that more I would replace it.

[ramennoodleking]

In 10 man normals and heroic the only time glyph of renew was considered was garalon, when mana was tight an progression was just beginning. Holy had bad mana problems, especially when under geared, and so you would use Inner Will with Renew, CoH, Cascade, and PoM.

And even that was lost once PoH was spammable at higher spirit.

You miss that as a very basic to the class. Glyphs of CoH, Lightwell and/or Lightspring, Inner Will, and Binding Heal are so far superior it's ridiculous. There is no application where glyph of Renew is better in ToT.

Sure, you would use and roll renew if in Serenity, but again, very few reasons to be in Serenity except for maybe bits and pieces of Council, Durumu, Ji Kun, DA, and Lei Shen. But even then, glyph of renews usefulness is dull compared to the other glyph. That and renew scales terribly.

[Deleted]

AS to why I do Haste over Mastery is the fact I run 10 mans mostly (when not in LFR). And from the reading I have done, Haste beats out Mastery in 10 mans white the priority differs to Spirit > Mastery > Crit > Haste in 25 man. This is a Clarification I will make for sure. If the info I have is wrong, could you point me to somplace that explains? While I no longer join in on the Theorycrafting, I till like to know why something is wrong before I do it. Also as I stated I do not blindly follow Mr. Robot. I think the tool is a good tool, but you really have to adjust the weights and caps in order to tweak it to your own numbers.

Haste isn't better than mastery for 10man, and crit definitely isnt.
Holy is a spec where mana can still be depleted at a rapid rate, even when sufficiently geared. Haste only fastens this and doesn't really offer the extra throughput to compensate for that. Crit isn't reliable and causes overhealing.

[Eul]

You miss that as a very basic to the class. Glyphs of CoH, Lightwell and/or Lightspring, Inner Will, and Binding Heal are so far superior it's ridiculous. There is no application where glyph of Renew is better in ToT.

Sure, you would use and roll renew if in Serenity, but again, very few reasons to be in Serenity except for maybe bits and pieces of Council, Durumu, Ji Kun, DA, and Lei Shen. But even then, glyph of renews usefulness is dull compared to the other glyph. That and renew scales terribly.

I don't think I am missing the basics of the class. I mention Glyph of CoH, it gives me mana issues when AOE healing as I cast it a lot, and the mana trade off is not the same. You are spending more mana then you get in return for healing. Lightspring I take so not sure what the issue is there. I am testing out Lightwell glyph now. Inner Will, I honestly do not know any healer that uses it. If you do can you give me an example of some numbers to support it? Binding Heal I do not dispute it's validity. I put it on there, my personal play style does not support using it currently, but I am giving it a shot and see if I can make better use of it.

And as far as Serenity, my group make up puts me on tank healing a fair amount, so I use it quite a bit, and honestly I think Holy does a good job on either role (tank healing or group healing). I think we are underutilized for tank healing.

Haste isn't better than mastery for 10man, and crit definitely isnt.
Holy is a spec where mana can still be depleted at a rapid rate, even when sufficiently geared. Haste only fastens this and doesn't really offer the extra throughput to compensate for that. Crit isn't reliable and causes overhealing.

Do you have anything to back this up other then your opinion? Not being rude, I just want to see something to back it up. Icy-Veins says Haste for 10 man as well as H2P (howtopriest). I personally have no issue with mana if I am careful about using my CDs to return mana.

[pkm]

Good try but needs a lot of work