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  1. #21
    redirect should have happened like a while ago like always band aid fixed and giving us our old stuff back in wors versions like someone said it already still redirect sounds fine to me tho
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  2. #22
    1.Vendetta/AR/Hemo(5.4)
    2. Feint
    3. Smoke Bomb

    These are the three glyphs I currently run for all 13/13H fights with the exception of Hemo in which I use sprint as sub. With all the new glyphs they are adding and new progression fights, I could definitely see myself switching Feint/Smoke Bomb for FoK/Redirect on multi-target fights. Recup probably will only be a PvP glyph but I may consider using it on any fights where a boss applies some sort of heavy dot dmg on raid targets that isn't fully feintable/cloakable. Definitely loving the new glyphs though!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    I'm nearly positive both variants of hunter weakened armor are 1 stack at a time.
    The Tear Armor ability raptor pets use is applied to a single target, one stack at a time, on a 6-second cooldown. Tallstriders' Dust Cloud is an AoE that applies all three stacks at once, but on a 25-second cooldown.

    The cooldown of the latter in conjunction with pet positioning issues and AI holds it back a bit; despite having to hit three times for an equivalent debuff, I'd say the FoK glyph is superior or at least equivalent.

  4. #24
    well with the redirect glyph, i think this means rogues wont get combo points on them self, tho its strange a glyph makes us push 1 abilities everytime we swap a target, just to get the same effect

  5. #25

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosferato View Post
    well with the redirect glyph, i think this means rogues wont get combo points on them self, tho its strange a glyph makes us push 1 abilities everytime we swap a target, just to get the same effect
    Could be a band aid for things to come, since combo point system overhaul would require more work, when in middle of an expansion.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by freyaether View Post
    Could be a band aid for things to come, since combo point system overhaul would require more work, when in middle of an expansion.
    Rogues have so much band aids on their body you can barely see their skin now...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    FoK would definitely not be good for single target sunder application. The FoK glyph would add 1 stack, so you'd have to spend 105 energy to get 3-stacks of sunder, but expose glyph would mean 25 energy for 3 stacks. The damage from 3 FoKs is negligible, you'd do more damage from the 2 sinister strikes, 1.45 mutilates, or 2.3 backstabs you could have done with the energy you saved from using glyphed expose. Especially given that the SS/mut/BS would be done with 3-stacks of sunder and the FoKs would 0, 1, and 2 stacks.
    You're totally right.

    I don't know what's happening to me these days - first the set bonuses thread, then this and probably later the trinkt thread. It seems i'm no longer able to do simple math and realize obvious things.

  9. #29
    The Hemo glyph seems like it'll be mandatory. It's a much needed change for sub. If only it were baseline.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    You're totally right.

    I don't know what's happening to me these days - first the set bonuses thread, then this and probably later the trinkt thread. It seems i'm no longer able to do simple math and realize obvious things.
    It's an off day or two. Happens to everyone. It'll get better.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Rogues have so much band aids on their body you can barely see their skin now...
    Yup, it reflects on the tier and pvp sets they make these days for rogues: pieces stitched together.

    That being said: the new glyphs looks okay to me. So pitiful it comes 4 patches late.

    Playing rogue is like playing a character of last expac, some retro character so to say. such a pity.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  11. #31
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    The Redirect and Recuperate glyphs are the only ones I like. The rest are just whatever. Don't really like the Sanguinary viens glyph, it feels like another crutch glyph similar to Deadly Momentum.

  12. #32
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    If redirect glyph stays as is, it's pretty much a clunky method of having combo points on you instead of target (macro redirect into every ability), I just wish they'd realise how much better this is as design and not waste a glyph slot to get it.

    Edit: Was under the impression that redirect was off the GCD... Since it's not, meh, I imagine all this glyph will do is anger you into thinking, why the hell aren't combo points on me at this point?
    Last edited by Ryme; 2013-07-05 at 10:00 AM.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  13. #33
    I think some people see the CP on target as a mistake or some dodgy design flaw. Personally I like the fact that CPs are tied to the target, it gives a bit of flavour and uniqueness to the class.

    If we were to see CPs on the user, and have vendetta not tied to the target we may as well be ret paladins. I like having this stuff on the target, it gives a little challenge and forward planning. Now we get this on GCD which is awesome, admittedly I would have preferred this baked in to the class but at least we do have diversity in our glyph selection now.

  14. #34
    I just really don't like recoup in a pve situation. You lose so much dps using it it's kinda ridiculous. Plus in a heavy aoe phase rolling a talented feint already makes you 100% more awesome than any other class out there. And in a situation of heavy aoe healing I have a feeling that it'll just make healers over heal you. I don't think there's a fight out there that healers are complaining about rogues taking too much damage atm. This glyph does seem very strong in pvp in a rogue/healer comp though... btw will this also make recoup heal 20% more? Granted in pvp that's really not much but hey extra healing is extra healing.

    Redirect is awesome. The GCD is pretty minimal since you can redirect from ranged and not lose anything due to travel time. Although personal CP would still be better this seems like they think it's a good idea but don't want to out of sheer principle. Seems very strong in both pvp and pve.

    FoK is pretty awesome even if you're the only physical dps out there. Tanks do pretty massive aoe damage so you'll be upping tank damage + fok base damage which on certain fights is pretty beast and if you have any other physical aoe it's a massive buff.

    Hemo looks strong too even in a pve situation due to the fact that in a lot of cases you won't get a full use of rupture so as long as you get the buff spamming evis will be a dps increase instead of having to roll a rupture with under 10 seconds of kill time left. But, it really does seem to be more aimed at pvp where target swaps for rogues are getting to be pretty rough.

    All in all these made me happy. One of the first times I've seen a blue post about rogue changes that made me think "OMG AWESOME" and not "damn... another nerf".

  15. #35
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    I think some people see the CP on target as a mistake or some dodgy design flaw. Personally I like the fact that CPs are tied to the target, it gives a bit of flavour and uniqueness to the class.

    If we were to see CPs on the user, and have vendetta not tied to the target we may as well be ret paladins. I like having this stuff on the target, it gives a little challenge and forward planning. Now we get this on GCD which is awesome, admittedly I would have preferred this baked in to the class but at least we do have diversity in our glyph selection now.
    I'm all for uniqueness and flavour, I just think combo points on target is the blandest and one of the weakest mechanical designs in the game right now - it even feels old and outdated.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    You're totally right.

    I don't know what's happening to me these days - first the set bonuses thread, then this and probably later the trinkt thread. It seems i'm no longer able to do simple math and realize obvious things.
    You're getting old, my friend.

    And you have just made me notice that you don't use the glyph of Smoke Bomb, as your RL I should eat your face, you're lucky we are going to go in holyday mode starting next week.

    (Scherzo lo sai che ti lovvo)

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    I'm all for uniqueness and flavour, I just think combo points on target is the blandest and one of the weakest mechanical designs in the game right now - it even feels old and outdated.
    I'm probably wrong but I think that cp on a target is due to the fact that back in vanilla wow a crit evis could one shot a freshly dinged 60 to even one who had some what meh gear. So instead of letting a rogue build up 5 cp and then go drop a bomb on a random person they tied it to a target.

    It's really just sad to think of all the wasted dps out there. Sure classes like warriors monks and paladins have a decay on their resources but it's a pretty generous decay and in a pvp/pve constant combat situation there's a 0 loss of resource aside from capping (which is more from bad choices than game mechanics).

    I'm pretty sure that rogues are balanced (I know combat is) around not wasting cp and not capping energy but in a fight like horridon or any add fight in the game rogues leave CP behind all the time aside from a random (useless for assassination) SnD refresh. Rogues are the only class the really get punished for target swapping.

    I really wish they'd just take the glyph out and redirect out and make cp a class resource like everyone else. Either that are screw all the other classes and make them suffer like rogues... imagine the tears of rage from destro locks if they lost soul shards swapping targets

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    I think some people see the CP on target as a mistake or some dodgy design flaw. Personally I like the fact that CPs are tied to the target, it gives a bit of flavour and uniqueness to the class.

    If we were to see CPs on the user, and have vendetta not tied to the target we may as well be ret paladins. I like having this stuff on the target, it gives a little challenge and forward planning. Now we get this on GCD which is awesome, admittedly I would have preferred this baked in to the class but at least we do have diversity in our glyph selection now.
    Well, it does have sense that we need to prepare a enemy to hit him with a big strike, that's the design behind combo points. Now... why on hell would having hit 5 vital points of some guy make me able to use a self buff that heals me? or a self buff that allows me to attack faster to anyone, not only that single guy?

    combo points on target had some flavour back when no one else had any kind of resource system (only mana, rage...), but the moment they introduced almost the same concept of resource for many specs but on the player... combo points became some old design very weak in comparission with more flaws than advantages.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    Well, it does have sense that we need to prepare a enemy to hit him with a big strike, that's the design behind combo points. Now... why on hell would having hit 5 vital points of some guy make me able to use a self buff that heals me? or a self buff that allows me to attack faster to anyone, not only that single guy?

    combo points on target had some flavour back when no one else had any kind of resource system (only mana, rage...), but the moment they introduced almost the same concept of resource for many specs but on the player... combo points became some old design very weak in comparission with more flaws than advantages.
    You really question that when you play this game lol? Not the fact that enemies respawn or you can save the world and have to do it once again next week or bosses having instant death moves but not casting them immediately..

    I get that you, ryme and many others feel like chi/holy power are better and to an extent they are. But those classes are easy, they make target switching so damn easy and neither of them have dots or anything similar that gives them the complexity, instead they just hit anything until the cows come home.

    Rogues have that skill of being able to target switch and pump rupture on multiple targets, keeping up poisons on multiple targets etc. Does it really matter that much if CPs are on the target instead of on you with redirect on GCD now. I think, personally, they've just solved the problem with rogues without redesigning the class.

    Laziness or retaining uniqueness, whatever you're view an actively raiding rogue should be leaping with joy. This is a strong upgrade for rogues and hopefully marks the fabled redesign of the class to fix other issues.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    More importantly, the Glyph of Recovery - if you've got a phase of a fight with a SERIOUS raid-heal check, this just made recup very worthwhile. I realize it's not new, but that's nice to have back.
    i'm not that sure about the recup glyph. i really can't see any proper use for it.

    for solo-pvp it's useless because it doesn't boost itself. in grp-pvp i you're running with a healermate it might be a decent choice (does it work with shields btw? anyone tested yet?), i agree.

    but for pve i don't know.... most serious raid-heal checks are aoe-dmg, so i am better off using feint. if it's single-target and it's a magic-effect or the like, i can cloak them off most of the time. so those situations that a Glyph of Recup might be worth it are pretty rare, i think. furthermore, i already am sittinig at the "Least Damage Taken" spot since forever in MoP (thanks to Feint + Cloak); i haven't heard my healers complaining me being a "healing sponge" for a ver, very long time. so, i don't really see any real use for that glyph, at least in a PvE-situation.

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