1. #2641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinalcrack View Post
    block players over a certain ilvl from doing LFR so there are no more carries
    Actually if I had my druthers I would scale gear in LFR down if it exceeded a cap.

    For example, in the first wing of ToT LFR, cap ilevel at, let's say, 490.

    In the last wing, let's say, 502.

    That way, visitors from the loftier reaches of raiding are stuck doing their fair share and nothing more.

  2. #2642
    High Overlord Skimper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    There is no hate. Topic is: Why doesn't people want to learn instead of wanting to learn? Would you receive welfare IRL or work a good job?
    Working a good job is not available for every one, not everyone makes 120k a year or more. It's the same in WoW not everyone is able to commit as much time to raid at a certain level.

    Now a game as WoW needs these casual players, since there is only a few raiders, if they don't get content they want, they won't subscribe, losing subscribtions can (not necessarily, but it would hurt the game in many ways) mean the end of World of Warcraft which in turn, makes you unable to play. Childish? Perhaps, but why would they pay for a game they don't like?

    Blizzard implemented certain things to keep those players playing, ON TOP OF THAT, they added difficulty modes for people that want to achieve more.

  3. #2643
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    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Who says the number of players is what matters most? LFR is a great example of that it's not the numbers that matters.
    WoW is a great example of it's the numbers that do matter.

    Meanwhile, LFR is 25-man not 40.

  4. #2644
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If you don't like it don't do it.

    You don't need 40 friends to enjoy socializing in LFR. I go in with 1 or 2 every time and I enjoy every run.

    The mystery exists in your head. If you are against things that ruin the mystery then I will expect you at the next anti-Youtube rally.
    I forgot not everyone has heads to use. Sorry.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-07-05 at 01:58 PM.

  5. #2645
    "Lesser skilled players," what you consider the majority of WoW players unlike your exalted self, don't pay the same money as you in order to support your access to content, but their own access. And THAT is why we feel entitled to see content: because we pay to do so.

  6. #2646
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Hello page 1 - 132 nice to see you. I'm sure this single phrase has been said over 100 times in this thread by 100 different people.

    It's a pretty laughable retort considering it only entitles you to access to the servers.

    The person could be incompetent and incapable of obtaining the gear to even enter LFR. That doesn't entitle him to enter it until he meets said requirements. Though the scenarios is unlikely in your mind. It may very well happen.
    The question isn't the requirements but rather who gets to set the requirements. Blizzard says you have to have Ilevel 460 to start in LFR, if elitists get what they want then less than 10% of the player base gets to decide who gets to experience the content based on, "Do you have the purples? No? Then you don't get the purples." I would rather the creators of the game decide what door you have to step through to see the content than random people who think that the majority of people should not be allowed to experience the content based on them not beloning to the minority.

  7. #2647
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    WoW is a great example of it's the numbers that do matter.

    Meanwhile, LFR is 25-man not 40.
    How so? 10 man guilds are more popular than 25 man for raiding. And yes LFR is 25 man confused it with old raids/AV x-realm.

  8. #2648
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    of course 5 man heroics are easier to complete them LFR. that design was deliberate. as a result they are a hundred fold easier then even the wrath ones.
    They also drop worse loot. No one complains that easy content drops worse loot there, even though there's a slim chance of purples in some.

  9. #2649
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodd View Post
    "Lesser skilled players," what you consider the majority of WoW players unlike your exalted self, don't pay the same money as you in order to support your access to content, but their own access. And THAT is why we feel entitled to see content: because we pay to do so.
    I'm going to continue to adress this, sorry. You do not pay for content or items or titles or mounts. You pay for one thing only: access to the game. What you do with that and what you achieve in the game is up to your skill and your dedication.

  10. #2650
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    I forgot not everyone has heads to use. Sorry.
    If you can't handle intelligent debate then don't bother debating. Your entire argument is based on opinion and "Mystery" and not facts, logic and reason. I you are not strong enough to carry the water in buckets having buckets with holes in them won't help you.

  11. #2651
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Who says the number of players is what matters most? LFR is a great example of that it's not the numbers that matters. I mean 25 man and even 10 man does a better job at preserving the community, than 40 strangers together. And yes WoW subs are still dropping and is the lowest since vanilla. It's only not because of the LFR of course. But LFR is certainly not making wow recover, plus it gets the worst out of people. It actually started with LFD and xrealm BGs. I'm not saying they are no where near LFR, but we could've been so much better off without them.
    ...First off LFR is 25man not 40 and also you can not prove we would have done better without LFD and finally blizzard say's the numbers matter why do you think they are always trying to get new subs and keep the ones they got.
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  12. #2652
    Quote Originally Posted by Jainzar View Post
    I'm going to continue to adress this, sorry. You do not pay for content or items or titles or mounts. You pay for one thing only: access to the game. What you do with that and what you achieve in the game is up to your skill and your dedication.
    This argument is repeated with some regularity. It is pointless at best, intentionally misleading at worst. It confuses the Terms of Service, which describe what you can sue over, with customer expectations, which can be anything a customer wishes them to be.

    Blizzard caters to the majority not because the majority are entitled. They cater to the majority because it makes sense for them to do so, because those players would stop sending Blizzard money if what they were getting didn't live up to the majority's desires. The majority doesn't need to resort to some spurious notion of entitlement for this to work; brute consumer power is sufficient.

    If some minority, such as the one you are apparently in, doesn't like this... too bad, so sad!
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  13. #2653
    Quote Originally Posted by Zechs-cenarius View Post
    The better question to the entire OP should be,"Why do 'skilled' players think that other players seeing the same content as them have any effect on their ability to play?" Yet another special snowflake thread talking about a false sense of accomplishment from playing a game. Really if you are that pathetic that you need validation of your life through a video game and are upset at the fact that every day joe schmoe people are playing in the same area as you then perhaps you need psychiatric help.
    No. I consider myself an average player and even then some of the fights are nod-worthy easy. We don't want validation, we want challenging. If you keep nerfing things so the "less-skilled" can see content then it means all your "skilled" players find new games. We complain because the retarded dumbing down of the game to suit "less-skilled" players, means that our skilled player base is going elsewhere, to other games where there are still challenges that mean something. I miss having equally skilled players to hang out with/raid with. And knocking someones accomplishment threshold because it doesn't match your own is ignorant. I like going to bed and thinking, "I had fun today." And I don't appreciate anyone telling me that my fun is any less important than their fun. If you want to play normals and Heroics, play BETTER or stick to LFR. Nerfing my fun IS affecting my DESIRE to play.

    To answer the OP, because less skilled players don't understand that they are BAD.

  14. #2654
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If you can't handle intelligent debate then don't bother debating. Your entire argument is based on opinion and "Mystery" and not facts, logic and reason. I you are not strong enough to carry the water in buckets having buckets with holes in them won't help you.
    Imagination and logic doesn't always go hand in hand. Even the most logical person would never come up with something like World of Warcraft. You actually have to use your logic in a creative way. Even if LFR might come off as logical at first, is not thought through.

  15. #2655
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    It actually started with LFD and xrealm BGs.
    swing and a miss

    LFD came out in 3.3.0 (8/12/09) when WoW had around 11.5 million subs (according to the press releases and / or quarterly reports) this number rose a little (to 12 million) and stayed at that high for a couple of quarters, then dropped to around 11.4 million in March 2011.

    So that's what, 15 months of flat to no growth with a little loss at the end and this is it "starting with LFD"?

    Just for the record as well, because you know, facts and shit are fun:

    Cata release was about 12 million, then it dropped to 11.4, then it dropped to 11.1, then it dropped to 10.3 then out come the annual pass and DS and LFR and it dropped to.....

    10.2, and you know what happened after that, it stayed at 10.2

    So 5 quarters of falling subs, out comes the annual pass (which I'd argue would only appeal to people going to sub anyway, why would you sign up for another 12 months if you were already thinking about leaving?) and LFR and the subs stay steady.....

    Of course the next record I've got is a fall to 9.2 (June 12) but on the back of DS being out for 7 months, SW:TOR in AUS, the 1.2 TOR patch (which fixed a number of issues with it) and D3 all coming out in that time.

    So tell me again, what did LFD and LFR do?
    Last edited by Mooboy; 2013-07-05 at 01:40 PM.
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  16. #2656
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    Why do greater skilled players feel entitled to keep others out of "their" content?

    Why do they?

    If you're an excellent player who's already in a hardcore guild progressing through heroic modes, why do you expect to lock others out of seeing the same content as yourself? That's the sole reason LFR was implemented, but why would hardcores demand content content be just for them. LFR was made for people of all skill levels to be able to see their raiding content.

    I just don't understand how this can affect you in the slightest when there's already an entire difficulty setting designed for the hardcore crowd?

    I think WoW is doing just fine with their current game model of separate difficulties for separate crowds. Don't get me wrong, hardcore players who raid heroic mode deserve to be compensated for their increased skill and dedication, but not by locking everyone else out of "their" content.

    I've been there. I was in a server first guild for most of Wrath. And yes, while everyone starts at the same level, not everyone has the same skill, time investment, or desire to be a hardcore raider. Why can't hardcore raiders understand that?

    See, massive, sweeping generalizations work the other way too!

    On the serious though, one of the biggest arguments I see is how LFR creates disparity between "casuals" and "hardcores" that hurts the game and the community. While this is true, I think that most of the damage being done is coming from those who feel entitled to lock players of lower skill out of "their" content. Have you ran an LFR? It's nowhere near the same experience as a normal raid with most boss mechanics being ignorable. But that's fine. For the players who've leveled through MoP, enjoyed the story of the Mogu and want to see what MSV is, LFR is there. It lets them "finish" the story in a way without having to worry about being an amazing player, min / maxing, or watching / reading a boss guide before to learn every mechanic. It's not very punishing if you make a mistake and it shouldn't be.

    Besides, if you don't like LFR don't run it.

    "But ATron, I'm forced to run LFR since it's a separate lockout! I need my set bonuses / over powered trinkets!"

    To that, I respond with a "No." You do not HAVE to run LFR for set bonuses. Will it give you an edge? Yes. Will it provide you with a small boost in performance? Yes. Is the content you're trying to do beatable without that small boost? Yes. It's entirely choice to run LFR in EVERY situation.

  17. #2657
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    ...First off LFR is 25man not 40 and also you can not prove we would have done better without LFD and finally blizzard say's the numbers matter why do you think they are always trying to get new subs and keep the ones they got.
    25 and 40, still the same. I just got the numbers wrong. but im glad you were so fast to point that rather insignificant detail out so quickly. It's a fact that LFD adds up to the things that destroys the community. People can't just be bothered to do realm 5-mans, thus we don't see that anymore. It takes time and effort to make a good community game and people actually willing to be arse do stuff on their own realm, but I guess you don't care about that.

  18. #2658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zechs-cenarius View Post
    The better question to the entire OP should be,"Why do 'skilled' players think that other players seeing the same content as them have any effect on their ability to play?" Yet another special snowflake thread talking about a false sense of accomplishment from playing a game. Really if you are that pathetic that you need validation of your life through a video game and are upset at the fact that every day joe schmoe people are playing in the same area as you then perhaps you need psychiatric help.
    For a similar reason as lonely trolls starting threads on "hot-button" topics using inflamatory words of the year like "entitlement" just to see a high thread count? It makes them feel better. On that note I object to your use of "special snowflake" for similar reasons.

    This is where I stand with LFR.

    I "came back" to wow for LFR. Because I still like these games, but I just don't have the time to invest any more. If you are in the camp that a necessary component of MMOs are the massive time sink....

    Well first I would have to argue that starting an hour late because you need to stand around LF2M people who didn't show up, and then starting a 2 or 3 hour scheduled raid two or three times a week is kind of a bullshit component of MMOs.

    That aside, I understand. If the LFR haters get Blizzard on board (doubt it), I will just quit. Don't take this as a fist-waving "Blizz if you do this I will quit". I don't really care. I kind of see where they come from, and I would walk away wishing that all their dreams for this game come true. Like I said, it's about time for me. Nothing else.

  19. #2659
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Actually if I had my druthers I would scale gear in LFR down if it exceeded a cap.

    For example, in the first wing of ToT LFR, cap ilevel at, let's say, 490.

    In the last wing, let's say, 502.

    That way, visitors from the loftier reaches of raiding are stuck doing their fair share and nothing more.
    Again extremely nonsensical reasoning

  20. #2660
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Imagination and logic doesn't always go hand in hand. Even the most logical person would never come up with something like World of Warcraft. You actually have to use your logic in a creative way. Even if LFR might come off as logical at first, is not thought through.
    Do you actually read what you post? It just seems to me that you are talking just to talk because your flowery 'mystery' ideals were shot down and now you have nothing worth saying to support your opinions.

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