1. #1

    Question Elem/Enha PvE: Should we use the 5.4 Glyph of Fire Elemental?

    Since blizz stated they will be taking a long weekend, i thought it would be a good time to ask about the Glyph of FET in the latest PTR build.

    To refresh your memory it now reduces the duration and cooldown of FET by 50%, up from 40%.
    In other words, the totem now lasts 30 seconds (down from 60) and has a cooldown of 150 seconds (2.5 minutes, down from 300 seconds/5 minutes).

    The main problem with this Glyph change is that most trinkets and Elemental Mastery can no longer be synced up with every cast of FET - meaning you either delay using FET (or delay the trinkets/EM) or you cast FET without the benefit of your trinkets/EM.
    Needless to say, both options kinda suck compared to the "perfect sync" that the current 3 minute Glyphed FET has with EM and most trinkets.

    So, according to the latest PTR build that was released before Blizz took their long weekend, do you think the new Glyph of FET will be worth taking if Primal Elementalist is also taken - despite having "sync up" issues?
    How useful will the new Glyph of FET be for Elem/Enha that do not take the PE talent?
    Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
    Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
    Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
    Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
    Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Since blizz stated they will be taking a long weekend, i thought it would be a good time to ask about the Glyph of FET in the latest PTR build.

    To refresh your memory it now reduces the duration and cooldown of FET by 50%, up from 40%.
    In other words, the totem now lasts 30 seconds (down from 60) and has a cooldown of 150 seconds (2.5 minutes, down from 300 seconds/5 minutes).

    The main problem with this Glyph change is that most trinkets and Elemental Mastery can no longer be synced up with every cast of FET - meaning you either delay using FET (or delay the trinkets/EM) or you cast FET without the benefit of your trinkets/EM.
    Needless to say, both options kinda suck compared to the "perfect sync" that the current 3 minute Glyphed FET has with EM and most trinkets.

    So, according to the latest PTR build that was released before Blizz took their long weekend, do you think the new Glyph of FET will be worth taking if Primal Elementalist is also taken - despite having "sync up" issues?
    How useful will the new Glyph of FET be for Elem/Enha that do not take the PE talent?
    Given the cooldown reduction trinket sadly doesn't affect Fire Ele for enhancement, I'd still be looking at using the glyph. Simply put, EM is a 20sec duration, if you unglyph it that's 40seconds of no EM affecting FE, glyph it, you can hold your fire ele for EM by waiting 30secs, not ideal, but it means the EM you throw down is souped up and ready to go, 5min CD long duration is quite sketchy.

    This does however seem like a way of deterring PE from being the absolute best top tier talent, especially with the way the enhancement 2pc works with UF and even EB, but we'll have to see. The CD reduction trinket I suspect may be retuned and it might change it again, so closer to the patch launch will be a better time to be checking.

    Also the trinkets syncing up is a non issue, since pretty much everything is hitting the RPPM design now, so trinkets syncing are completely random. All it means is you have a 30sec window to wait before you'd be dropping your Fire Ele as normal at 3mins, for 5sec less duration.
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  3. #3
    As Elemental, I'm still going to use it as I have before.

    If I need small windows of burst like Heroic Wind-Lord, or I'm only on the bosses platform for a bit like Ji-Kun, I'll use the glyph. Assuming neither of these are true, and there's no mechanic that allows for buffs or something every 2.5m, then I'd probably unglyph it.

  4. #4
    Seems really lame to wait 30+ seconds just to sync up the cooldowns/trinkets with FET :/
    Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
    Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
    Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
    Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
    Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Seems really lame to wait 30+ seconds just to sync up the cooldowns/trinkets with FET :/
    It is and simming shows the glyph to be a clear dps loss for overall dps now. It is only beneficial, if you really need the burst several times because of fight mechanics, but the next problem is, that heroism lasts 40 seconds, FET only 30 sec glyphed -> clear dps loss.

    It's not like until now where for certain fight lengths, glyphed FET was a clear overall dps gain (say between 3.5 and 5 minutes, for a three phase fight with every three minutes a phase change (bevause of EM getting synced) or a fight length of 9.5 to 10 minutes.

  6. #6
    the glyph seems to be targeted at PVP. less cool down in PVP means more frequent bursts.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    It is and simming shows the glyph to be a clear dps loss for overall dps now.
    For non-trolls, at least. Trolls still benefit from glyphing fire ele and using it every 3 mins in combination with EM and Berserking.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    For non-trolls, at least. Trolls still benefit from glyphing fire ele and using it every 3 mins in combination with EM and Berserking.
    At best perhaps. Those cases will be more rare than ever before now because even then, it's a clear dps nerf for trolls.

    Berserking + FE glyph doesn't compensate for say 30% more uptime.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    At best perhaps. Those cases will be more rare than ever before now because even then, it's a clear dps nerf for trolls.

    Berserking + FE glyph doesn't compensate for say 30% more uptime.
    http://dread-gaming.com/simc/enh_mop_948.html

    vs.

    http://dread-gaming.com/simc/enh_mop_949.html

    Yes, the glyph is still a gain for trolls on PTR. The gap is much smaller, though, which I imagine is precisely the point of the change (same goes for the gap between EM and AS). Glyphs aren't supposed to be mandatory.
    Last edited by Nitwit; 2013-07-06 at 11:33 PM.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Robula's Avatar
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    No one here has mentioned that with the extra reduction on the base cooldown of FET you'd be able use the Call of the Elements talent to instantly reset it's CD. I haven't tested this, but it would make sense to me.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Robula View Post
    No one here has mentioned that with the extra reduction on the base cooldown of FET you'd be able use the Call of the Elements talent to instantly reset it's CD. I haven't tested this, but it would make sense to me.
    99% sure they wouldnt allow this. Also I think it wouldn't because the talent says a Base time of 3 mins or lower, technically the FET base time is still 5 minutes.

    I also think it's a totally pointless change, it was much nicer with the 3 minute timer. Oh well I guess since I'm not a troll I'll be removing this glyph in 5.4 then.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Barky View Post
    99% sure they wouldnt allow this. Also I think it wouldn't because the talent says a Base time of 3 mins or lower, technically the FET base time is still 5 minutes.

    I also think it's a totally pointless change, it was much nicer with the 3 minute timer. Oh well I guess since I'm not a troll I'll be removing this glyph in 5.4 then.
    last time i check you are indeed correct.
    CotE doesn't work on it.
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    I literally die every time i see people using literally wrong.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by roflwaffle View Post
    last time i check you are indeed correct.
    CotE doesn't work on it.
    confirming this also, not working with CotE.
    Even if it would, it would be a bug or so, otherwise it would be too powerful talent compared to the other 2.

  14. #14
    I still think the glyph will be useful. Remember that not all fights are the same and if the glyph allows for you to drop the elemental to its full duration 1 more time during a fight then It will be worth it.

    If anything, the change makes the glyph more of a choice rather than a clear winner. I didn`t elemental could line it up so well with all their CDs, maybe that the reason they changed it, it was sort of mandatory for elemental.

    Still, it might not be as bursty as it was but I don´t think its a loss to glyph it. You will get more uptime deppending on the fight and I believe thats the original design intent for that glyph. I don´t think they wanted that to be the "line everything up every 3 minutes" glyph.

    You might say, "its a loss compared to the old one" but the old one will be gone so it really isn´t. In the end, I think Elemental will pick other glyphs for other situations as everyone else.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post
    I still think the glyph will be useful. Remember that not all fights are the same and if the glyph allows for you to drop the elemental to its full duration 1 more time during a fight then It will be worth it.

    If anything, the change makes the glyph more of a choice rather than a clear winner. I didn`t elemental could line it up so well with all their CDs, maybe that the reason they changed it, it was sort of mandatory for elemental.

    Still, it might not be as bursty as it was but I don´t think its a loss to glyph it. You will get more uptime deppending on the fight and I believe thats the original design intent for that glyph. I don´t think they wanted that to be the "line everything up every 3 minutes" glyph.

    You might say, "its a loss compared to the old one" but the old one will be gone so it really isn´t. In the end, I think Elemental will pick other glyphs for other situations as everyone else.
    The glyph won't increase your uptime in most situations and there are only 2 obvious reasons why you would want to glyph it.

    *You need burst every 2.5 to 3 minutes
    *The elemental won't be able to attack for its entire duration but will for at least 30 seconds and the fight length ensures you don't lose 30 seconds of uptime compare the the glyphed one. So fights need to last between 3.00-5.30 or 8.00-10.30.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by takolin View Post
    The glyph won't increase your uptime in most situations and there are only 2 obvious reasons why you would want to glyph it.

    *You need burst every 2.5 to 3 minutes
    *The elemental won't be able to attack for its entire duration but will for at least 30 seconds and the fight length ensures you don't lose 30 seconds of uptime compare the the glyphed one. So fights need to last between 3.00-5.30 or 8.00-10.30.
    Yes this glyph is now more than ever dependent on the specific fight mechanics.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Yes this glyph is now more than ever dependent on the specific fight mechanics.
    I am rather glad both the Glyph of FET and the PE talent are no longer so freakishly strong - never liked either of them.

    Now i can take a new useful glyph on both my Elem/Enha and a different lvl90 talent that i actually like!
    Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
    Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
    Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
    Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
    Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.

  18. #18
    New useful glyph? What, pray tell, would that be?

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