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  1. #1

    Overlooked Strength Problem?

    Hi, I don't normally post on the forums but I feel this issue has been long over looked and I think would very much help the warrior class and strength users in general.

    As it stands now both Agility and Intellect users gain two attack power or spell power per one agil/int PLUS critical strike chance built into the primary stat.

    My question is why don't strength users get equal crit from strength?

    I know DK's and Rets get talents/passives/spells that grant them extra crit but honestly warriors seem very lacking of the stat.

    I would love to see a blue/admin post on this, so please keep the bashing/trolling to a minimum. Thank you.

  2. #2
    they allow str to give warriors a low amount of parry-its helps some.yes warriors crit has been gutted over the years,but thats what happened s when you gut/nerf a class at every turn since BC.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Jarg's Avatar
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    Dk's dont get crit from STR. it's the same for all STR users: some parry. And to be honest we don't need crit/haste/mastery/whatever is your desired stat from strength, we are not balanced around it.

    p.s.: good luck with blue response!

  4. #4
    First; you won't see a "blue" post here

    Second, to address your question; I don't think we know why other than that it was a design decision by the devs. It doesn't really matter though assuming the class in question is balance around that fact (of course in addition to being balanced against the other classes).

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarg View Post
    Dk's dont get crit from STR. it's the same for all STR users: some parry. And to be honest we don't need crit/haste/mastery/whatever is your desired stat from strength, we are not balanced around it.

    p.s.: good luck with blue response!
    True, rets/DKs/warriors are balanced around strength NOT giving any secondary DPS benefit, but interestingly enough, all 6 strength DPS specs scale at a much lower rate than our agility using counterparts. GC is fond of dismissing these "scaling" problems, but they continue to show up no matter how much he likes to ignore them. Warriors used to scale incredibly well with gear when they could use agility items and before rage was normalized, but while they don't scale as poorly as DKs they still scale no where near as well as rogues or monks do.

  6. #6
    High Overlord Jarg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    True, rets/DKs/warriors are balanced around strength NOT giving any secondary DPS benefit, but interestingly enough, all 6 strength DPS specs scale at a much lower rate than our agility using counterparts. GC is fond of dismissing these "scaling" problems, but they continue to show up no matter how much he likes to ignore them. Warriors used to scale incredibly well with gear when they could use agility items and before rage was normalized, but while they don't scale as poorly as DKs they still scale no where near as well as rogues or monks do.
    I agree with that, but i'm pretty sure they don't want classes to scale THAT well. When the dk community was trying to solve the unholy scaling issue before 5.2 (IIRC) a game dev even "asked" them to try to derail the theorycrafting from scaling. I think they will avoid changing the scaling mechanics untill there is a really big issue (aka the prot paladin haste gearing) since at the moment the STR classes are pretty equal. I think they are scared to change something what is working (and tbh probally they would make just mess with it).

  7. #7
    They should just bring back rampage and scale it up to 10% crit passively and boom, fury warriors now work, if we don't get our crits, than our staple ability, raging blow, is not available, making us a class that uses CS, which has a 20 sec CD, BT, doesn't even hit hard, and HS, at least thats off the GCD, now you tell me how that is "equal" with paladins and DK's

  8. #8
    I've been making posts about the lack of a secondary stat on str since WotLK. Something they did fix instead of giving BT a static 10% extra crit they doubled the crit chance which helps compensate for the lack of crit.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=Revolutions


    BATTLEMASTER (After 3.3.5 nerf) REVOLUTIONS REPORTING IN.
    Wielder of The Scepter of Shifting Sands, Hand of Ragnaros, and Shadowmourne. Bringer of 66 minute kings.

  9. #9
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    It's because Strength classes use Two Handed weapons that increase their damage. Attack Power is meaningless if you have no Damage.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    It's because Strength classes use Two Handed weapons that increase their damage. Attack Power is meaningless if you have no Damage.
    It has nothing at all to do with using a two-handed weapon.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Frayed View Post
    First; you won't see a "blue" post here

    .
    We could all just post in blue text to make him happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    True, rets/DKs/warriors are balanced around strength NOT giving any secondary DPS benefit, but interestingly enough, all 6 strength DPS specs scale at a much lower rate than our agility using counterparts. GC is fond of dismissing these "scaling" problems, but they continue to show up no matter how much he likes to ignore them. Warriors used to scale incredibly well with gear when they could use agility items and before rage was normalized, but while they don't scale as poorly as DKs they still scale no where near as well as rogues or monks do.
    I think it was Collision who ran Simcraft at a vastly scaled up ilvl, both before and after the RPPM trinkets/meta came into the game and hurt Fury's scaling a bit. The result, inhighly scaled up versions T14H gear, was that Fury was the fourth best scaling spec in the game, while in similarly scaled up T15H with the RPPM trinkets, we slipped to around 11th, behind all Mage/Warlock/Rogue specs, and Enh Shamans, but ahead of everything else (including agi melee Ferals and WW monks). Seems Monks, Dks, Rets, Ferals and Arms Warriors scale really poorly (tho WowProgress's current numbers on WW monks make me think something has changed either with simcraft's profile or with monks to drastically improve their scaling) and Fire Mages scale far better than any spec in the game.
    Last edited by Slaynorth; 2013-07-02 at 07:57 PM.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Int classes gain spell crit and spell power. Strength users gain AP and AP increases weapon damaged. It's balanced around that.

  13. #13
    Well agility users gain the same AP/main stat plus crit on top of it. I think it's safe to say most strength classes would be pretty broken if strength increased a secondary stat because they're balanced around not having it.

  14. #14
    Warlocks have st-fear and ae-fear. Mages have st-sheep but no ae-sheep. Overlooked cc problem?

    What I'm trying to say is: Mechanics working different for different classes/specs is natural and has nothing to do with overall-balance.

    (Although ae-sheep would be hilarious.)

    Edit:
    Just came up with an example.
    It would be no problem if warriors would get 10 attack power per 1 strength - their attacks would simply scaled down by 80% to do the same damage as before.
    Last edited by dR-vIce; 2013-07-02 at 11:27 PM.

  15. #15
    I have always wondered this, I felt like (although we get more AP from strength I believe) agi users get the best of both worlds

  16. #16
    for the most part strength specs don't favor crit as much as othe secondary stats, that changes from time to time.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Curanhadin View Post
    for the most part strength specs don't favor crit as much as othe secondary stats, that changes from time to time.
    Both warrior dps specs are absolutely dependent on crit to do a semblance of good dps

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Curanhadin View Post
    for the most part strength specs don't favor crit as much as othe secondary stats, that changes from time to time.
    Rubbish. Please don't post if you nothing about how warriors have relied heavily upon crit for years.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Frayed View Post
    First; you won't see a "blue" post here

    Second, to address your question; I don't think we know why other than that it was a design decision by the devs. It doesn't really matter though assuming the class in question is balance around that fact (of course in addition to being balanced against the other classes).
    Actually blues do post here sometimes.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/members/970492-Araxom

  20. #20
    STR not having any secondary dps benefit has been an issue for a very long time. Not sure why they are so stubborn on not changing something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frayed View Post
    First; you won't see a "blue" post here
    they do post, rarely, but mostly CS issues.

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