Isn't it funny to see Garrosh now and look back at Krom'gar?

[Dreknar20]

I have to admit the second part is just what I remember reading in a different Garrosh is evil threads a while back. Couldn't provide you with a link to save my life.

Because I have read the book and as I recall Orcs are part, if not the largest part, of the army assembled against Theramore

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Something about tearing and freezing the very soul of those caught in the explosion so that the dead can't find peace.

and does all magic do this? Or somehow just mana bombs?

And if so you have to say The Sunreavers and Kiron Tor are "evil" because they both employ mana bombs against each other

[Landin55]

Because I have read the book and as I recall Orcs are part, if not the largest part, of the army assembled against Theramore

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and does all magic do this? Or somehow just mana bombs?

And if so you have to say The Sunreavers and Kiron Tor are "evil" because they both employ mana bombs against each other

Since when?

[Aquamonkey]

Since when?

Isle of Thunder.

[checking facts]

Since when?

since PvP dailies in Isle of Thunder. sometimes you plant mana bombs on the enemy base, othor times you disarm mana bombs in your base.

[Landin55]

Isle of Thunder.

Like full on mana nukes like Garrosh or the little mana bombs from BC?

[yetgdhfgh]

Since when?

Isle of thunder pvp dailies http://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=32628

[Landin55]

Isle of thunder pvp dailies http://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=32628

Ahhh gotcha. Well I'm pretty sure the soul tearing part is from the mana nuke. These little suckers wouldn't have the same arcane potency and would have a different effect.

[Trubo]

Because I have read the book and as I recall Orcs are part, if not the largest part, of the army assembled against Theramore

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and does all magic do this? Or somehow just mana bombs?

And if so you have to say The Sunreavers and Kiron Tor are "evil" because they both employ mana bombs against each other

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that all Mana Bombs functioned that way. I was under the impression that Garrosh had his mages turn this specific bomb into something that tortured before killing. If I'm wrong then that just goes to show how much I understand the lore.

[Landin55]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that all Mana Bombs functioned that way. I was under the impression that Garrosh had his mages turn this specific bomb into something that tortured before killing. If I'm wrong then that just goes to show how much I understand the lore.

Except no one even garrosh had any idea what would happen when the bomb went off....For all he knew it would have sent the victims to the twisting nether. The torture wasn't intentional but at that point Garrosh wouldn't give a damn.

[Aquamonkey]

Ahhh gotcha. Well I'm pretty sure the soul tearing part is from the mana nuke. These little suckers wouldn't have the same arcane potency and would have a different effect.

Yea, the reality-warping effect is from it being super-charged by the Focusing Iris.

[Dreknar20]

2 things could explain what happend at stone talon.

0r 3. it happened just as it happened

[Trubo]

Except no one even garrosh had any idea what would happen when the bomb went off....For he knew it would have sent the victims to the twisting nether. The torture wasn't intentional but at that point Garrosh wouldn't give a damn.

Ah, thank you for clarifying this point.

[Landin55]

0r 3. it happened just as it happened

But why did he do it. With the bombing of Theramore it showed Garrosh wasn't a orc of mercy. So why did it anger him so much that one of his soldiers did what he pretty much did later on?

[Dreknar20]

The torture wasn't intentional but at that point Garrosh wouldn't give a damn.

torture.....as in ways every other weapon on Azeroth does.
A mana bomb is no more painful then bleeding to death because u stepped on a goblin land mine, or had your arm chopped off by a dwarf, or being burned alive my some mages fireballs, or choking to death on Forsaken plague.

"There is no honorable way to kill, not gentle way to destory"

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So why did it anger him so much that one of his soldiers did what he pretty much did later on?

maybe because he just changed?
Kinda like how Jaina, Thrall, Varian have also changed. All these characters are not the same exact people when we first met them.

I mean toward the very end of Tides of War there is this line from Jaina - "All things change, she thought. I, Thrall, Garrosh, Varian....Azeroth"

[Landin55]

torture.....as in ways every other weapon on Azeroth does.
A mana bomb is no more painful then bleeding to death because u stepped on a goblin land mine, or had your arm chopped off by a dwarf, or being burned alive my some mages fireballs, or choking to death on Forsaken plague.

"There is no honorable way to kill, not gentle way to destory"

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maybe because he just changed?
Kinda like how Jaina, Thrall, Varian have also changed. All these characters are not the same exact people when we first met them.

Except it was obvious where Garrosh was going in terms of a character. While its true he did change due to his pride. Started off a depressed nobody orc, duels thrall the orc who gave him his pride by renewing his faith in Grom, gets ramped up to military leader (who made his soldiers fanatical, blood thirsty, backstabbers who attacked an alliance army that was about to bring the war to the Lich King from behind during a blizzard), and finally Warchief of the Horde where his soldier nuked Night Elves and got thrown off a cliff for it. So he praises soldiers who attack the Alliance during a blizzard from behind but kills a guy because he was dishonorable? If you ask me Krom'gar's dishonor is because he decided he had a better way to end that battle then Grarrosh.

[Shedeo]

The notion that Garrosh's bombing of the Theramore was a 'master stroke' is laughable. Too often are the toes Garrosh stepped on (Tauren, Trolls, Undead, and most of all Blood Elves) down played.

Was it sneaky and effective? Sure. A master stroke? Simultaneously guaranteeing total war with the Alliance until one side is defeated along with giving them a rallying cry, abusing the Sunreavers' position and laying the ground work for Jaina's eventual decision to seize control of the Kirin Tor, and alienating/creating a VERY large rift between you and your own allies isn't masterful, it's short sighted in the extreme.

Krom'gar's bombing of the druids was twisted and wrong, but in no way does it amount to the size and scope of the mess Garrosh created for himself with Theramore.

Essentially, Theramore was a masterstroke in the same way that killing Lothar was.

[Dreknar20]

Except it was obvious where Garrosh was going in terms of a character.

no it was not - not everything Hellscream did pointed him out to be an evil person
As Cairne said - "but what he had seen and heard of his behaviour was equal parts encouraging and distressing."

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So he praises soldiers who attack the Alliance during a blizzard from behind .

except he didnt.
He yelled and berated the officer in charge (Blackscar or somethin) - during the Heart of War short story

[Landin55]

no it was not

You're kidding right? Since the begining of wrath where he tried to fight Thrall, and Saurfang had his famous "talk" with Garrosh that Garrosh wasn't a good guy and would probably end up a villain. Now granted I didn't see him becoming Warchief but I did think he would end up some general and try to do a coup against Thrall.

[Dreknar20]

You're kidding right? Since the begining of wrath where he tried to fight Thrall, and Saurfang had his famous "talk" with Garrosh

all that proved was that he was head-strong and agressive, in other words exactly how a Hellscream is supposed to be.

As I put in the other post these words from Cairne - "but what he had seen and heard about his behaviour was equal parts encouraging and distressing."

Garrosh Hellscream, least back then, was not the most kindness warm-hearted gentleman around, but neither was he a clear cut villian

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Now granted I didn't see him becoming Warchief but I did think he would end up some general and try to do a coup against Thrall.

which brings up another thing, if Garrosh was always oh so clearly bad then half his story wouldnt make sense.
If he was evil how would he become Warchief? how would he become the Overlord of the Horde armies? how would he even join the Horde?

The only way that could happen then is if, as you said, he led a coup, or they have Thrall be dropped on his head

[Wilian]

Krom'gar and the event with him is just yet another turn-around in the long line of personality and behaviorial switches Garrosh "enjoyed" when several bad writers with no real quality check were given a go at it.