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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    It's a vicious circle: I can't get EXP because I don't have any EXP.
    wait until you grow up and try to get a job, that's exactly like real life bro

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Qaniki View Post
    I'm in the same position as OP. You'd think it's easiere now that it's summer and I'm on one of the bigger server in eu(silvermoon), but no, you just get ignored as a dps.
    erm i would belive u if not fact that im currently lvling my priest there and the amount of trade spam which look to recruit players and for spot in guild runs/pugs beats the server my main is Draenor EU et least 3 - 1 -_-

  3. #223
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murican View Post
    wait until you grow up and try to get a job, that's exactly like real life bro
    Tell me about it it's f'd up.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    erm i would belive u if not fact that im currently lvling my priest there and the amount of trade spam which look to recruit players and for spot in guild runs/pugs beats the server my main is Draenor EU et least 3 - 1 -_-
    The entire thread is about the difficulty in getting into a pug/guild, not wether or not there are enough of them.. Yes there are many pugs here, but they don't take anyone without at least 6/12 experience, and most of them require AotC.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    On the flip side of things, I've almost never dealt with a raider from LFR that was able to do their jobs in raids. The problem is, LFR has got a bad reputation, it's pretty much the fault of blizz here, if you let people afk the content and get gear, they won't have much credibility when they try to transition to real raiding. Your best bet is to try to link any important achievements and start applying to guilds, you can generally get in to pugs if you try hard, if nothing else, just tell them you did the fight once but it was a while ago lol.... it wouldn't hurt to watch a few youtube videos too.
    Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

    It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

    It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.
    I think in the past, you could do stuff like heroic dungeons, craft gear, that kinda stuff, and I never had problems getting into groups.... that stuff showed you were serious about progression because you were using the tools to advance. The game has changed so much though that heroic 5 mans have almost no meaning and give lower item level gear then LFR (which I think is screwed up).... and they are insanely easy. Long story short, I think the vanilla and BC content in particular pretty much prepared you for raiding.

    Now you have LFR on the other hand, which pretty much does the opposite IMO, basically making people worse raiders. You can afk on fights, never read the dungeon journal and still kill all the bosses, and have no idea about your rotation.... these people then end up going into normal mode raids and creating wipe fests.

    Blizz pretty much gives the impression that if you do LFR, that you can then graduate to normal raiding, and that often just isn't the case, because it's much better to take an undergeared alt from someone that has prior knowledge on their main then someone that has a full set of LFR stuff but hasn't tried normal, or has only downed a few bosses.

  7. #227
    The stipulation that you have some sort of right into pugs that want to complete in a timely manner is the issue. While I -personally- don't have an issue giving someone like the OP a try, if they can type a reply to me with some level of intelligence, and not "OMG Y U NO TAEK ME? I 12/12 LFR" then they'll get a shot.

    But honestly, you're hounding on Blizzard because YOU THINK they OWE YOU the right to get into normals, pugs at that. No, you don't. The fact that pug ToTs can run is just a by-product that comes with heavily populated servers. There are no ToT pugs on my server, as it's fairly small.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'm personally fairly forgiving, I would take you, OP. But the simple fact that you and others feel like you have this right to get into a group with strangers with nothing to show for it, is the problem. If you want experience, there are guilds you can apply to. If you can't make the raid times of any of them, then I'm sorry. Go form your own pug group as someone mentioned. Also, I would totally recruit you for my guild, if you weren't EU.~ :P

  8. #228
    Herald of the Titans Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

    It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.
    Isn't that what LFR is for. You should be able to learn 90% of every fight on your own without any outside intervention. When normal guilds recruit they want someone who has at least done their homework so it will take maybe a minute to explain the differences.

    For example : Jinrokh - The only thing you need to know is that you drag the lightning out of the group before you get hit and don't cross the streams as a dps. As a tank you taunt to keep the stacks low. The rest you should have learned in LFR.

    There's solid class guides on MMO-champ as well as ICY Veins. Askmrrobot.com does reforging. If you're posting here I'm sure you know about them so not being able to perform at a decent level isn't an excuse.

    Why should a guild waste their personal gaming time teaching you when you can't take the time to learn the fights either? It's a two way street.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Blutelf View Post
    Start your own PUG.

    The normal & HC fights are quite different from LFR, therefore it is understandable that they want someone with experience.
    Nonsense, normal fights are mostly similar, the only real differences for a newcomer are durumu, animus and qon, and those take like two sentences to point out the big differences and to be frank, lot of pugs, even with all people with leishen kill, fall apart sooner than they reach those bosses anyway. I was in similar situation months ago, when I took a break in the middle of t14, our guild stopped raiding in the meantime and I was doing lfr only for weeks, then wanted to join a guild with zero experience, was taken on the test run from durumu on tuesday before reset without long explanations, just a few pointers what not to do and was surprised how little the fights actually changed from lfr versions, heck, I was pulled straight into HC jinrokh and jikun next reset and even there the changes were easy to adapt to. guess what, we are 10/13 hc, working on animus now and im among the first dpsers to be picked for progression fights.

    the only advice I can give is: make your own logs in LFR. Then just post them, when they ask for info and experience, point out the obvious stuff, like good dps/healing, not standing in shit and low-ish dmg taken to show them, that you can do the fights the proper way, not the "LFR aka ignore everything" way. Some pug leaders are gonna ignore you for sure, but some are more sensible than others, those who dont just see 515 and achiev and autoinvite you, but take the time to pick up their squad will be willing to give it a shot. Also previous raiding experience helps, if you have some t14 HCs, you should have easier time than most.

  10. #230
    Show some forward thinking. Show some commitment and background research that you're not one of those people that just settle to LFR and call that as being completely done with the end-game, and that you're not just another player who wants to do normals and HC's, but got declined everytime due to the lack of exp as being the main reason. I'm talking about guilds here because a well-organized one is much better than having to rely on a pug, which is particularly the case for someone with no experience.

    If I was in your position, I'd start focusing on an application towards a guild that is still progressing on ToT normal. You need to be realistic about things, as there's little chance you're going to get into a HC raiding guild right away, unless there's some exceptions such as you were a former raider in a top raiding guild, you quit after t14 HC etc. In these circumstances, you might be given some leeway if you've proved yourself in the past, but it's not guaranteed either.

    So give the application a good first impression and don't be lazy about things such as showing off as much as you can about your knowledge of the class without sounding too conceited. If you've watched some videos and read-up on tacts, say that as well. Look at the app as being an opportunity to show people that you can do, and that you know your class well by giving some answers that the guild's raiders would nod to (at least I hope you can). If the application asks for logs, make some of your own - having a WoL account shows extra effort and is often better than a few screenshots of recount/skada.

    So, the bottom line I'd say for you is to apply to look for a guild that are yet to clear ToT on normal mode, as you should have a better chance of getting into some non-hc raiding one for now, and that if you're willing to show what you can do, then there's still a chance you might get in. When exploring your guild choices, don't set the bar too high for yourself if you don't feel confident as you've still got to meet or exceed expectations of the guild.
    Last edited by Drakoes; 2013-07-08 at 09:37 PM.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakoes View Post
    Show some forward thinking. Show some commitment and background research that you're not one of those people that just settle to LFR and call that as being completely done with the end-game, and that you're not just another player who wants to do normals and HC's, but got declined everytime due to the lack of exp as being the main reason. I'm talking about guilds here because a well-organized one is much better than having to rely on a pug, which is particularly the case for someone with no experience.

    If I was in your position, I'd start focusing on an application towards a guild that is still progressing on ToT normal. You need to be realistic about things, as there's little chance you're going to get into a HC raiding guild right away, unless there's some exceptions such as you were a former raider in a top raiding guild, you quit after t14 HC etc. In these circumstances, you might be given some leeway if you've proved yourself in the past, but it's not guaranteed either.

    So give the application a good first impression and don't be lazy about things such as showing off as much as you can about your knowledge of the class without sounding too conceited. If you've watched some videos and read-up on tacts, say that as well. Look at the app as being an opportunity to show people that you can do, and that you know your class well by giving some answers that the guild's raiders would nod to (at least I hope you can). If the application asks for logs, make some of your own - having a WoL account shows extra effort and is often better than a few screenshots of recount/skada.

    So, the bottom line I'd say for you is to apply to look for a guild that are yet to clear ToT on normal mode, as you should have a better chance of getting into some non-hc raiding one for now, and that if you're willing to show what you can do, then there's still a chance you might get in. When exploring your guild choices, don't set the bar too high for yourself if you don't feel confident as you've still got to meet or exceed expectations of the guild.
    Just want to bold that bit, running your own world of logs is really simple, and something you should do if/when you manage to get into a pug or guild progressing on normals. Show people that you're actually putting in the effort. Having logs will also show if you "scumbag" where you ignore mechanics just to boost your overall dps.

  12. #232
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    i have a lower ilvl then u and i dont have trouble finding pugs....i havent killed lei shen yet, but ive killed up to durumu

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    The key to entering a halfway decent guild is to put up some killer logs. Basically, put up some logs where you're getting admirably close to a sim for your gear, then link that sim alongside the log.

    Gear and kills are easy to fix. Players are not. Having some old experience really helps, so if you're wanting to break into heroics, then you'll want to at the very start with some mostly normal-mode guilds or something.

    Alternatively, you can as one person suggested, simply start your own pugs! Nobody can refute you, then.
    Old kills don't matter in my experience. I've never recruited someone based on prior experience. Several reasons. First, being good last expact/several ago doesn't mean anything now. Next, it's hard or impossible to know if someone was carried. Third, fights are different now, especially between 10 and 25.

    All in all, I don't care about prior expacs. Kills, ehh. Logs, proper optimization,and knowledge of class and fights are more what I look for.

  14. #234
    I got some good points from here.

    I do want to make 1 thing clear. making logs is not an option because for some reason the WoL client doesn't work on my machine. I need to figure out what causes this, but I don't know what.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    I got some good points from here.

    I do want to make 1 thing clear. making logs is not an option because for some reason the WoL client doesn't work on my machine. I need to figure out what causes this, but I don't know what.
    Have you updated your Java?
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  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    Have you updated your Java?
    yes I have, I have the most recent version of Java 6 and 7 on my computer, and they're updated whenever there's a new version. is it broken by updates?
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by think309 View Post
    Start your own pug?
    This.

    They probably don't take you because they want to get more boss kills and have bad experiences with players who only did LFR.
    Solution? Make your own pug and invite anyone you think is worth your time.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    I still really dont understand why u dont find a regular spot in raid team which is progressing through normals instead u set your focus so strongly on getting into pugs ... -_- its summer many many guilds have raid attendance problems - its easier now to find a spot in raiding guild then it will be in autumn when people will return to game after summer holidays -_-
    I'd just like to chip in and point out my experience: Live in the UK, play on US-Illidan (Due to various reasons - if I could transfer to EU I would).

    Anyway, raiding guilds all start at midnight ~ 1am, ending at 4am~6am for their raid window. Because of that, I can't join a raiding guild.

    But I main a disc priest, so I've got 6/12 exp from pugs, 523 ilvl. People love dem shields. However my Lock? No such luck.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Old kills don't matter in my experience. I've never recruited someone based on prior experience. Several reasons. First, being good last expact/several ago doesn't mean anything now. Next, it's hard or impossible to know if someone was carried. Third, fights are different now, especially between 10 and 25.

    All in all, I don't care about prior expacs. Kills, ehh. Logs, proper optimization,and knowledge of class and fights are more what I look for.
    Logs + experience is the best. Everyone can copy paste rotations and boss mechanics...errr..actually now that I think of it some people can't even look up a guide before applying to a guild. :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

    It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.
    Hilarious and such a big ego. Why don't you make a guild and start "teaching" WoW to random people?
    As long as it doesn't feel like a job to you right?

    Your parents never taught you to give and recieve?

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temperance Brennan View Post
    yes I have, I have the most recent version of Java 6 and 7 on my computer, and they're updated whenever there's a new version. is it broken by updates?
    I know one thing. During DS in cata I couldn't get WoL client to work at all, then I read that I should try a different browser (used Firefox back then) and all of a sudden it worked (used IE instead of Firefox). Not sure if this helps but that's what I did to get it to work. And yes, I had all Java updates installed back then.
    Thread: Ranged vs Melee which is easier in PvE?
    'Originally Posted by Thelxi'
    Dragon farts stink so ranged

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