"you don't have any kills, sorry"... always hiding behind that same lame excuse

[Sorrior]

wait until you grow up and try to get a job, that's exactly like real life bro

Tell me about it it's f'd up.

[Deleted]

erm i would belive u if not fact that im currently lvling my priest there and the amount of trade spam which look to recruit players and for spot in guild runs/pugs beats the server my main is Draenor EU et least 3 - 1 -_-

The entire thread is about the difficulty in getting into a pug/guild, not wether or not there are enough of them.. Yes there are many pugs here, but they don't take anyone without at least 6/12 experience, and most of them require AotC.

[melodramocracy]

On the flip side of things, I've almost never dealt with a raider from LFR that was able to do their jobs in raids. The problem is, LFR has got a bad reputation, it's pretty much the fault of blizz here, if you let people afk the content and get gear, they won't have much credibility when they try to transition to real raiding. Your best bet is to try to link any important achievements and start applying to guilds, you can generally get in to pugs if you try hard, if nothing else, just tell them you did the fight once but it was a while ago lol.... it wouldn't hurt to watch a few youtube videos too.

Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.

[RickJamesLich]

Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.

I think in the past, you could do stuff like heroic dungeons, craft gear, that kinda stuff, and I never had problems getting into groups.... that stuff showed you were serious about progression because you were using the tools to advance. The game has changed so much though that heroic 5 mans have almost no meaning and give lower item level gear then LFR (which I think is screwed up).... and they are insanely easy. Long story short, I think the vanilla and BC content in particular pretty much prepared you for raiding.

Now you have LFR on the other hand, which pretty much does the opposite IMO, basically making people worse raiders. You can afk on fights, never read the dungeon journal and still kill all the bosses, and have no idea about your rotation.... these people then end up going into normal mode raids and creating wipe fests.

Blizz pretty much gives the impression that if you do LFR, that you can then graduate to normal raiding, and that often just isn't the case, because it's much better to take an undergeared alt from someone that has prior knowledge on their main then someone that has a full set of LFR stuff but hasn't tried normal, or has only downed a few bosses.

[Maleia]

The stipulation that you have some sort of right into pugs that want to complete in a timely manner is the issue. While I -personally- don't have an issue giving someone like the OP a try, if they can type a reply to me with some level of intelligence, and not "OMG Y U NO TAEK ME? I 12/12 LFR" then they'll get a shot.

But honestly, you're hounding on Blizzard because YOU THINK they OWE YOU the right to get into normals, pugs at that. No, you don't. The fact that pug ToTs can run is just a by-product that comes with heavily populated servers. There are no ToT pugs on my server, as it's fairly small.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I'm personally fairly forgiving, I would take you, OP. But the simple fact that you and others feel like you have this right to get into a group with strangers with nothing to show for it, is the problem. If you want experience, there are guilds you can apply to. If you can't make the raid times of any of them, then I'm sorry. Go form your own pug group as someone mentioned. Also, I would totally recruit you for my guild, if you weren't EU.~ :P

[Tharkkun]

Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.

Isn't that what LFR is for. You should be able to learn 90% of every fight on your own without any outside intervention. When normal guilds recruit they want someone who has at least done their homework so it will take maybe a minute to explain the differences.

For example : Jinrokh - The only thing you need to know is that you drag the lightning out of the group before you get hit and don't cross the streams as a dps. As a tank you taunt to keep the stacks low. The rest you should have learned in LFR.

There's solid class guides on MMO-champ as well as ICY Veins. Askmrrobot.com does reforging. If you're posting here I'm sure you know about them so not being able to perform at a decent level isn't an excuse.

Why should a guild waste their personal gaming time teaching you when you can't take the time to learn the fights either? It's a two way street.

[Sarevokcz]

Start your own PUG.

The normal & HC fights are quite different from LFR, therefore it is understandable that they want someone with experience.

Nonsense, normal fights are mostly similar, the only real differences for a newcomer are durumu, animus and qon, and those take like two sentences to point out the big differences and to be frank, lot of pugs, even with all people with leishen kill, fall apart sooner than they reach those bosses anyway. I was in similar situation months ago, when I took a break in the middle of t14, our guild stopped raiding in the meantime and I was doing lfr only for weeks, then wanted to join a guild with zero experience, was taken on the test run from durumu on tuesday before reset without long explanations, just a few pointers what not to do and was surprised how little the fights actually changed from lfr versions, heck, I was pulled straight into HC jinrokh and jikun next reset and even there the changes were easy to adapt to. guess what, we are 10/13 hc, working on animus now and im among the first dpsers to be picked for progression fights.

the only advice I can give is: make your own logs in LFR. Then just post them, when they ask for info and experience, point out the obvious stuff, like good dps/healing, not standing in shit and low-ish dmg taken to show them, that you can do the fights the proper way, not the "LFR aka ignore everything" way. Some pug leaders are gonna ignore you for sure, but some are more sensible than others, those who dont just see 515 and achiev and autoinvite you, but take the time to pick up their squad will be willing to give it a shot. Also previous raiding experience helps, if you have some t14 HCs, you should have easier time than most.

[Drakoes]

Show some forward thinking. Show some commitment and background research that you're not one of those people that just settle to LFR and call that as being completely done with the end-game, and that you're not just another player who wants to do normals and HC's, but got declined everytime due to the lack of exp as being the main reason. I'm talking about guilds here because a well-organized one is much better than having to rely on a pug, which is particularly the case for someone with no experience.

If I was in your position, I'd start focusing on an application towards a guild that is still progressing on ToT normal. You need to be realistic about things, as there's little chance you're going to get into a HC raiding guild right away, unless there's some exceptions such as you were a former raider in a top raiding guild, you quit after t14 HC etc. In these circumstances, you might be given some leeway if you've proved yourself in the past, but it's not guaranteed either.

So give the application a good first impression and don't be lazy about things such as showing off as much as you can about your knowledge of the class without sounding too conceited. If you've watched some videos and read-up on tacts, say that as well. Look at the app as being an opportunity to show people that you can do, and that you know your class well by giving some answers that the guild's raiders would nod to (at least I hope you can). If the application asks for logs, make some of your own - having a WoL account shows extra effort and is often better than a few screenshots of recount/skada.

So, the bottom line I'd say for you is to apply to look for a guild that are yet to clear ToT on normal mode, as you should have a better chance of getting into some non-hc raiding one for now, and that if you're willing to show what you can do, then there's still a chance you might get in. When exploring your guild choices, don't set the bar too high for yourself if you don't feel confident as you've still got to meet or exceed expectations of the guild.

[alucardtnuoc]

Show some forward thinking. Show some commitment and background research that you're not one of those people that just settle to LFR and call that as being completely done with the end-game, and that you're not just another player who wants to do normals and HC's, but got declined everytime due to the lack of exp as being the main reason. I'm talking about guilds here because a well-organized one is much better than having to rely on a pug, which is particularly the case for someone with no experience.

If I was in your position, I'd start focusing on an application towards a guild that is still progressing on ToT normal. You need to be realistic about things, as there's little chance you're going to get into a HC raiding guild right away, unless there's some exceptions such as you were a former raider in a top raiding guild, you quit after t14 HC etc. In these circumstances, you might be given some leeway if you've proved yourself in the past, but it's not guaranteed either.

So give the application a good first impression and don't be lazy about things such as showing off as much as you can about your knowledge of the class without sounding too conceited. If you've watched some videos and read-up on tacts, say that as well. Look at the app as being an opportunity to show people that you can do, and that you know your class well by giving some answers that the guild's raiders would nod to (at least I hope you can). If the application asks for logs, make some of your own - having a WoL account shows extra effort and is often better than a few screenshots of recount/skada.

So, the bottom line I'd say for you is to apply to look for a guild that are yet to clear ToT on normal mode, as you should have a better chance of getting into some non-hc raiding one for now, and that if you're willing to show what you can do, then there's still a chance you might get in. When exploring your guild choices, don't set the bar too high for yourself if you don't feel confident as you've still got to meet or exceed expectations of the guild.

Just want to bold that bit, running your own world of logs is really simple, and something you should do if/when you manage to get into a pug or guild progressing on normals. Show people that you're actually putting in the effort. Having logs will also show if you "scumbag" where you ignore mechanics just to boost your overall dps.

[gutnbrg]

i have a lower ilvl then u and i dont have trouble finding pugs....i havent killed lei shen yet, but ive killed up to durumu

[Darkfriend]

The key to entering a halfway decent guild is to put up some killer logs. Basically, put up some logs where you're getting admirably close to a sim for your gear, then link that sim alongside the log.

Gear and kills are easy to fix. Players are not. Having some old experience really helps, so if you're wanting to break into heroics, then you'll want to at the very start with some mostly normal-mode guilds or something.

Alternatively, you can as one person suggested, simply start your own pugs! Nobody can refute you, then.

Old kills don't matter in my experience. I've never recruited someone based on prior experience. Several reasons. First, being good last expact/several ago doesn't mean anything now. Next, it's hard or impossible to know if someone was carried. Third, fights are different now, especially between 10 and 25.

All in all, I don't care about prior expacs. Kills, ehh. Logs, proper optimization,and knowledge of class and fights are more what I look for.

[Deleted]

I got some good points from here.

I do want to make 1 thing clear. making logs is not an option because for some reason the WoL client doesn't work on my machine. I need to figure out what causes this, but I don't know what.

[Jeremypwnz]

I got some good points from here.

I do want to make 1 thing clear. making logs is not an option because for some reason the WoL client doesn't work on my machine. I need to figure out what causes this, but I don't know what.

Have you updated your Java?

[Deleted]

Have you updated your Java?

yes I have, I have the most recent version of Java 6 and 7 on my computer, and they're updated whenever there's a new version. is it broken by updates?

[Gilian]

Start your own pug?

This.

They probably don't take you because they want to get more boss kills and have bad experiences with players who only did LFR.
Solution? Make your own pug and invite anyone you think is worth your time.

[TyrantWave]

I still really dont understand why u dont find a regular spot in raid team which is progressing through normals instead u set your focus so strongly on getting into pugs ... -_- its summer many many guilds have raid attendance problems - its easier now to find a spot in raiding guild then it will be in autumn when people will return to game after summer holidays -_-

I'd just like to chip in and point out my experience: Live in the UK, play on US-Illidan (Due to various reasons - if I could transfer to EU I would).

Anyway, raiding guilds all start at midnight ~ 1am, ending at 4am~6am for their raid window. Because of that, I can't join a raiding guild.

But I main a disc priest, so I've got 6/12 exp from pugs, 523 ilvl. People love dem shields. However my Lock? No such luck.

[Gilian]

Old kills don't matter in my experience. I've never recruited someone based on prior experience. Several reasons. First, being good last expact/several ago doesn't mean anything now. Next, it's hard or impossible to know if someone was carried. Third, fights are different now, especially between 10 and 25.

All in all, I don't care about prior expacs. Kills, ehh. Logs, proper optimization,and knowledge of class and fights are more what I look for.

Logs + experience is the best. Everyone can copy paste rotations and boss mechanics...errr..actually now that I think of it some people can't even look up a guide before applying to a guild. :P

- - - Updated - - -

Versus folks in the past who had no experience at all trying to get into pugs?

It's the same bullshit that it ever was. The only difference is now folks have an alternative to having to grovel and hope for the best just to see content. Frankly I hope the 'we can't find recruits!' trend continues, until pugs and guilds change their stance on who they accept, and how much they're willing to teach.

Hilarious and such a big ego. Why don't you make a guild and start "teaching" WoW to random people?
As long as it doesn't feel like a job to you right?

Your parents never taught you to give and recieve?

[Manthis]

yes I have, I have the most recent version of Java 6 and 7 on my computer, and they're updated whenever there's a new version. is it broken by updates?

I know one thing. During DS in cata I couldn't get WoL client to work at all, then I read that I should try a different browser (used Firefox back then) and all of a sudden it worked (used IE instead of Firefox). Not sure if this helps but that's what I did to get it to work. And yes, I had all Java updates installed back then.

[Deleted]

The time of the year when all guilds reduce their raiding days or resort to PuGs is close. Be online and watching trade chat from 6 pm onwards and you'll see at least 5 guilds looking for warm bodies for the night/ID. Impress them and you'll get a guild invite.

i would love to know what realm youre on, we have nothing like that on mine.

[Tharkkun]

yes I have, I have the most recent version of Java 6 and 7 on my computer, and they're updated whenever there's a new version. is it broken by updates?

First off, uninstall all your versions of Java using Add/Remove Programs or Programs and Features.

You only want to install Java 7. There's no reason to use Java 6 and 7 unless you're a developer and you'll know which version you require if that's the case.


Download and install the 32-bit JRE for Java 7. http://download.oracle.com/otn-pub/j...ndows-i586.exe
(Unless the application you are using is 64-bit the 32-bit java is used. It doesn't matter if your OS is 64-bit)

If you have Windows Vista or Windows 7 64-bit you may also need to install the 64-bit version of Java 7. http://download.oracle.com/otn-pub/j...indows-x64.exe
(This is to cover the 1% of applications using a 64-bit JRE. For example, clicking start, all programs and choosing Internet Explorer (64-bit). By default you are using the 32-bit version).

Here's the direct link if you don't trust me. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/ja...s-1880261.html
32-bit is Windows x86 offline.
64-bit is Windows x64.