What will become of the Argent Crusade?

[Deleted]

Standing army disbanded and permanent members holding watch. Outposts at strategic position and representatives in capital cities.

[Deleted]

Considering they were the ones holding the front line against the legion when TBC was launched, maybe they'll just be working against the other powers that conspire to destroy Azeroth now that the scourge is outa the way.

[leaks]

This is what, basically, every faction do in-game, because the game focus on players, that make neutral factions (but even Alliance and Horde NPCs) feel useless, incompetent and a bit ridicolous. But lorewise it's hardly belivable that the "heroes" are so overpowered and precious, able to slaugther thousand of mobs without an effort.

Yeah I get that. Was just making a joke because it's funny to me that Strathholme and the Scarlet enclave both had them show up with an army after sending you in to kill the leadership and most of the enemies.

No different than DK's raising ghouls or popping army. Alliance don't have a problem with their DKs doing this. And those are actually slaves who never get a choice after the battle is over.

It's ok though because they chain souls into mindless slave bodies and they are addicted to inflicting pain on other people, going berserk if they go too long without hurting someone. Clearly different. But hey, the Forsaken killed some farmers and a town that was causing them trouble from day 1 and was supplying food and resources to an invading army, they are clearly monsters.

[Zulkhan]

Yeah I get that. Was just making a joke because it's funny to me that Strathholme and the Scarlet enclave both had them show up with an army after sending you in to kill the leadership and most of the enemies.

In their pious benevolence, that was an act of clemency for letting you have all the glory. *trollface*

Just because OUTSIDE FORCES make going off on their own unsafe, doesn't make it any less of a choice. Not joining the Alliance is an unsafe choice, but nobody says they only have the delusion of choice in joining it. Plenty of undead have chosen not to join the Forsaken or have left. There are other factions besides the Forsaken that welcome undead.

This "outside force" is the world itself, and not becoming part of the Forsaken means remaining utterly alone, since the Forsaken is the only faction that accept them and treat them like persons, while the rest of the world look at them as disgusting abominations or simply don't trust them, with the only exception of some outlaw organizations like bandits, pirates or just greedy goblins that don't care about such things.

But the Forsaken is the only conception of "people" that sentients and free-willed undead can hope to be part of, there is no chance in any alternative universe that they could join the Alliance and be treated like "persons" by them, and the Forsaken that raise them in the first place are perfectly aware of this, they know it better than anyone else.

The only other place in which undead could find something similar enough to a safe place, with people to be part of, is the Argent Crusade; but the forsaken there are not frightened and confused guys, they are, like the others, persons that decided to join the Crusade's cause, and by what I saw until now, the Forsaken there just willingly left their people, so they were part of it before; plus, the Argent Crusade it's still, well, a crusade and accept like-minded individuals, it is not an asylum for desperate and frightened people or for someone that want a place in which stay without becoming, well, a "crusader".

Then, what we have? Organizations like the Burning Blade, the Twilight's Hammer, the occasional outlaw organizations that accept anyone useful for profit, but....no one of them can be seriously considered a safe place for anyone that just want to have a home.
The moment that I become an undead my choices and possibilities become suddenly thinned compared to when I was alive, and the fear and the confusion of the moment doesn't help at all. It cannot be helped, the circumstances are too blatantly favorable for bring these guys, 9 times on 10, to the "right decision".

[Scummer]

I don't think they would or should join the Alliance. That said they will always be biased towards simply because they have far more connections to them. Heck It would be nice to see them establish a new Kingdom called "New Lordaeron" or something.

The Forsaken issue though needs to be addressed. It feels incredibly unrealistic or odd that the Forsaken are a stones throw away from them undoing everything they've done and stood for and literally do nothing.

Quotes like "It's just that you could be doing so much more for yourself. If you're interested in healing the plaguelands, rather than re-plaguing them, then report to Field Agent Kaartish at the Menders' Stead to the east." show that they are aware of they're doing. They just choose for reasons we are not aware of to not act.

[Aquamonkey]

Quotes like "It's just that you could be doing so much more for yourself. If you're interested in healing the plaguelands, rather than re-plaguing them, then report to Field Agent Kaartish at the Menders' Stead to the east." show that they are aware of they're doing. They just choose for reasons we are not aware of to not act.

Real standup guy, "Furthermore, I don't like the fact that they employ mercenaries like yourself." Then he employs you as a mercenary.

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This "outside force" is the world itself, and not becoming part of the Forsaken means remaining utterly alone, since the Forsaken is the only faction that accept them and treat them like persons, while the rest of the world look at them as disgusting abominations or simply don't trust them, with the only exception of some outlaw organizations like bandits, pirates or just greedy goblins that don't care about such things.

But the Forsaken is the only conception of "people" that sentients and free-willed undead can hope to be part of, there is no chance in any alternative universe that they could join the Alliance and be treated like "persons" by them, and the Forsaken that raise them in the first place are perfectly aware of this, they know it better than anyone else.

I guess those African slaves shouldn't have had children... Bringing people into a world that hates them is not the fault of the people being hated. The fault rests entirely on the people doing the hating.

[Zulkhan]

I don't think they would or should join the Alliance. That said they will always be biased towards simply because they have far more connections to them. Heck It would be nice to see them establish a new Kingdom called "New Lordaeron" or something.

The reason for which Forsaken are biased towards humans is because humans has always been biased toward them aswell. It's a perfectly equal distrust and dislike.

The Forsaken issue though needs to be addressed. It feels incredibly unrealistic or odd that the Forsaken are a stones throw away from them undoing everything they've done and stood for and literally do nothing.

Quotes like "It's just that you could be doing so much more for yourself. If you're interested in healing the plaguelands, rather than re-plaguing them, then report to Field Agent Kaartish at the Menders' Stead to the east." show that they are aware of they're doing. They just choose for reasons we are not aware of to not act.

Sorry, but Garush make assumptions out of dislike and suspicion, not about facts. The facts, that we see with our own eyes, is that the Forsaken are not plauging anything. They use chemical weapons, raise dead corpses, but that have nothing to do with the Cenarion's work. They aren't corrupting the land, there is no place in which nature and wildlife is desecrated and corrupted in a permanent decaying state, which proves that no one of the Forsaken weapons have the same effects of the necromantic magic that the Cult of the Damned used for maintain the Plaguelands in the tainted state we saw until now.

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I guess those African slaves shouldn't have had children... Bringing people into a world that hates them is not the fault of the people being hated. The fault rests entirely on the people doing the hating.

African slaves's children weren't dead persons desiring to stay dead......

[Thage]

The Argent Crusade should be eradicated and their leader, Tirion Fordring should be executed for high treason against the Alliance.

Yeah, I'm sure Varian will get right on that when he spent the entirety of Wrath of the Lich King, when he was still in that whole 'EXECUTE EVERYONE!' violent-psychotic mindset from the imperfect fusion, treating Tirion as nothing less than his equal and friend. I'm also sure that the Crusade will get right on kowtowing to the man who killed the hero of the war against the Lich King instead of, you know, tearing his head off right then and there and forever walling off the new Lordaeron they're building to the Alliance.

The remains of the Argent Crusade and the Scarlet Crusade together with the rest of the exiled people from Lordaeron will converge in a new organization: The Cerulean Aurora, an Alliance faction led by the Queen Calia herself and with the firm intention of eradicating the plague of undead that is plaguing the former Kingdom of Lordaeron, their home.

Hilariously stupid name aside, what makes you think the Scarlet Crusade will have anything to do with anyone after more than a decade of extreme xenophobia and killing anyone not part of their ranks (or who doesn't submit to quarantine and re-education-read-brainwashing)? Further, there is no more Scarlet Crusade. Balnazzar killed and Scourged them all as the Risen and the Argent Crusade's Brotherhood of the Light, along with Alliance and Horde adventurers, killed all of them and what they didn't, a group of Alliance and Horde adventurers did elsewhere.

On top of all that, let's assume there are some Scarlets left. What makes you think the Argent Crusade will want anything to do with them, when the only people in the Argent Dawn who worked with them in Vanilla treated them with thinly-veiled contempt even when the alliance held up?

edit: No, seriously. Cerulean Aurora? That sounds like a stripper's stage name, not some powerful reclamation army.

[Dreknar20]

Yeah I get that. Was just making a joke because it's funny to me that Strathholme and the Scarlet enclave both had them show up with an army after sending you in to kill the leadership and most of the enemies.

and yet people always use such things as "proof" that someone or some group of people are weak or pathetic.........

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The Forsaken issue though needs to be addressed. It feels incredibly unrealistic or odd that the Forsaken are a stones throw away from them undoing everything they've done and stood for and literally do nothing.

and you dont think the Forsaken consider the druids planting trees and flowers as disgusting and desecration?
Undead and living things have different tastes and views on things.

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The reason for which Forsaken are biased towards humans is because humans has always been biased toward them aswell. It's a perfectly equal distrust and dislike.

old hatrds, hate, distrust - an endless cycle
One side does something because they hate the other side, which provides ammo/fuel for the other side to hate that one side

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Sorry, but Garush make assumptions out of dislike and suspicion, not about facts.

some could argue that undead is un-natural and thus against Druidism

[Zulkhan]

some could argue that undead is un-natural and thus against Druidism

Garush was just worried about "the looks of what the Forsaken are doing here at the Bulwark. Bombs, cauldrons, needless bloodshed... none of these embody that which the Argent Crusade stands for." which is indeed true, but the Forsaken are the Forsaken, not a Crusade of holy heroes, and he bases the subsequent assumption, quoted by Scummer, on his own convinctions, but not about facts, and the facts are that the Forsaken are not plaguing a fuck.

Talking of the good old Garush, his text dialogue should be a decent answer to anyone arguing about the Argent Crusade becoming an Alliance organization and so on...this is said by an Argent Crusader, more specifically an orc Crusader, member of the Argent Dawn by Vanilla:

Well met, friend. I am officer Garush, and I am proud member of the world-wide organization known as the Argent Crusade. Our cause is to fight swiftly and mercilessly against any element of evil that surface in Azeroth. We are not a political body, nor do we ever wish to become one. Our cause is singular, and to that end we call both Horde and Alliance as friends - friends in the cause of stamping out evil!

[Acepox]

Oops. I didn't read carefully. It is true the new Silver Hand belongs to Tirion. BUT, the Argent Crusade might still want to stop the forsaken from spreading the blight raising the dead against their will(yes, and there is no valid argument against that F.x: when you die, no one can take your organs unless it was your will when you lived).

Also,I don't like the looks of what the Forsaken are doing here at the Bulwark. Bombs, cauldrons, needless bloodshed... none of these embody that which the Argent Crusade stands for. Furthermore, I don't like the fact that they employ mercenaries like yourself.

Nothing against you personally, <class>. It's just that you could be doing so much more for yourself. If you're interested in healing the plaguelands, rather than re-plaguing them, then report to Field Agent Kaartish at the Menders' Stead to the east.


And Tirion mentionned somewhere he is keeping a close watch on(this heart of mine-J. Cash) the Forsaken.

[Dreknar20]

And Tirion mentionned somewhere he is keeping a close watch on(this heart of mine-J. Cash) the Forsaken.

it was from a blue post

[Aquamonkey]

And Tirion mentionned somewhere he is keeping a close watch on(this heart of mine-J. Cash) the Forsaken.

it was from a blue post

Q: What is the Argent Crusade's relationship with the Forsaken, in light of Sylvanas's recent actions?
A: Although the members of the Argent Crusade still stand by the Forsaken heroes who joined them in the battle against the Scourge, Sylvanas's actions since the slaying of Arthas have deeply concerned the crusaders. They, along with certain members of the Ebon Blade, are now watching Sylvanas and the Forsaken very closely, as similarities between her and the Lich King are increasing in number by the day. (Source)

[Zalinea]

The main reason that the Argent Crusade should NOT become part of the Alliance is that it was part of the Alliance of Lorederon and the only member of the current alliance that they were once allied with is Genn.

[Acepox]

Q: What is the Argent Crusade's relationship with the Forsaken, in light of Sylvanas's recent actions?
A: Although the members of the Argent Crusade still stand by the Forsaken heroes who joined them in the battle against the Scourge, Sylvanas's actions since the slaying of Arthas have deeply concerned the crusaders. They, along with certain members of the Ebon Blade, are now watching Sylvanas and the Forsaken very closely, as similarities between her and the Lich King are increasing in number by the day. (Source)

Thank you!

[Lumineus]

The facts, that we see with our own eyes, is that the Forsaken are not plauging anything. They use chemical weapons

It's a bio-weapon. Specifically, it's a plague. They even call it "The Plague." It's like, weaponized Ebola, on crack. Further, it does not dissipate once deployed, and even develops into ooze monsters after a while.

[Aquamonkey]

It's a bio-weapon. Specifically, it's a plague. They even call it "The Plague." It's like, weaponized Ebola, on crack. Further, it does not dissipate once deployed, and even develops into ooze monsters after a while.

It's usually referred to as Blight. The original Scourge Plague spread across the countryside and acted like a disease, spreading through infected carriers and killed after a few days. Blight is highly concentrated, limited in its range, kills immediately and doesn't appear to spread like a disease the way Plague does. While the immediate area does become contaminated, it is more akin to a radiation bomb or a chemical weapon and doesn't spread beyond ground zero.

[Dreknar20]

It's usually referred to as Blight. The original Scourge Plague spread across the countryside and acted like a disease, spreading through infected carriers..

Likewise, if the Forsaken thing was like that we would all be dead right now, or undead

[roahn the warlock]

What happens when the Plaguelands are restored? Humans will try to take over the zone again. Meaning there will be a battle there, cause Sylvanas want that region probably too. We see this already happen in Western Plaguelands, but with Eastern Plaguelands restored it might be even worse.

It would be impossible for the alliance to take EPL. it is east of WPL and below the ghostlands, north of mountians and west of the ocean

[Scummer]

Sorry, but Garush make assumptions out of dislike and suspicion, not about facts. The facts, that we see with our own eyes, is that the Forsaken are not plauging anything. They use chemical weapons, raise dead corpses, but that have nothing to do with the Cenarion's work. They aren't corrupting the land, there is no place in which nature and wildlife is desecrated and corrupted in a permanent decaying state, which proves that no one of the Forsaken weapons have the same effects of the necromantic magic that the Cult of the Damned used for maintain the Plaguelands in the tainted state we saw until now.

Have played the WPL?

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=26978

They are re-plaguing the area. "I almost liked it better when the Scourge held the area. At least they had the sense to put a giant plague cauldron in the middle of the field.". You do not have a plague cauldronn there if it's not to spread the blight. They also have they're blooming blight machines there.
"Those Argent Crusaders and those infernal Cenarion druids have done too good a job of healing the plaguelands" They resent them for healing the land, they don't want it cured.

They are plaguing it. They do not want it healed. We also know their blight lasts a long time.

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and you dont think the Forsaken consider the druids planting trees and flowers as disgusting and desecration?
Undead and living things have different tastes and views on things.

Whats your point?

That because they have a different outlook even if it directly conflicts with those of their neighbours they should be left alone even though they show no such respect themselves?

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It's still a choice. "Welcome back to the realm of the living. With the blessing and power from the Dark Lady, I have freed you from death's grip. You are no slave, <name>. You are free to follow whatever path you choose from here. If you choose to serve the Dark Lady Sylvanas, I recommend you speak with Undertaker Mordo."

"Bow before your new master!" - Agatha raising Hillsbrad Refugees.

Yep totally the same choice as before.