Feral 5.4 CC changes.

[nodq]

Every instant CC that goes away is GOOD. The game has way to much of them. All those instant CCs you can not counter expect with trinket on very long cooldowns. Im effin annoyed by the fact that i sometimes sit there 30+ seconds doing NOTHING but watching the other team chasing around my team mate(s). Just because i get all those little mini CCs in a chain, DR timer doesn't interest anyone anymore. even 1 sec stuns will be put on you if it means that it is just 1-2 seconds more on top of the already 15 seconds im in CC chain. For example... you don not have trinket anymore.... Chastise (3 sec) , Fear (8) , MindControl (8) , Silence blanket (3-4) , scatter (3) , trap (8) , Fear(8 again, DR should be down with 15-18 seconds).

And now that was only Holy priest with a hunter, imagine a feral druid on top of that with stupid instant Cyclones. Im really pisseds at all those CCs, it is World of WatchCraft. Im not playing my Character damn it.

[Snuggli]

Chastise (3 sec) , Fear (8) , MindControl (8) , Silence blanket (3-4) , scatter (3) , trap (8) , Fear(8 again, DR should be down with 15-18 seconds).

Just a note, arguably 2 of them are easily avoidable. Partner can kick the MC and eat the trap.

[nodq]

Just a note, arguably 2 of them are easily avoidable. Partner can kick the MC and eat the trap.

Yeh in theory you can avoid every CC. It's easy. Just don't enter the arena. Problem solved. But in reality it is different. When your partner is also CC'd etc. You can not deny this current state of the game. It is just a problem and a fact that is most of the time works like this. And it is annoying as *uck for everyone, expect Hunter maybe with their 27 trinkets.

CC should be like it is in other games like GW2. Every CC = cast time, so that you can see it and coutner it if you want. That simple. 2 or 3 CCs may be still instant, would be ok i guess. Like Priest fear or charge stun.

And we are at a point where casters do not have to stand to cast actually.... thats horrible bad game design. that would only work if EVERY cast/spell had a cast time, otherwise not, no.

[gestapo]

Regardless of how long you're been championing the "cat glyph for everyone!" cause, I still think it's an unwarranted change.

Yes. So you think it's an unwarranted change because you play against Feral druids and you don't want them to have anything at all that might be beneficial, we all get that.

We've already established the glyph is NOT compulsory for PVP

Actually you haven't established anything besides demonstrate that you don't want Feral to have a free glyph slot because other classes don't get it either. By your logic I could argue that rogues shouldn't get Cloak of shadows because Feral doesn't have it either. It makes no sense and you come across as petulant, which I'm sure you are.

(you can group with a disc/hpala instead as you said so yourself)

I never said this in regards to the discussion of the cat form glyph.

so why should it be baseline? As for spending more time getting familiar with my feral, I'm playing my rogue tonight because I prefer a challenge

Cool, i'm sure we'll hear it on the news. Since you have so much free time I recommend you work on getting better at a class that's been easier in every other season since the launch of arenas (rogue).

EDIT:

On second thought

so why should it be baseline?

Scrap the idea to work on your rogue, seems to be a lost cause anyway. Reading comprehension will get you further in life.

[Dcruize]

Yes. So you think it's an unwarranted change because you play against Feral druids and you don't want them to have anything at all that might be beneficial, we all get that.

God this is getting tedious. For the nth time, I'm playing rogue/feral in 5.3/5.4 (btw not a DK as you claimed earlier, I miss stealth too much to play one). I'm disgusted at how easy the class is at the moment and think it's comical that a) you've been requesting a buff to it in its present state and b) you think the class needs a fearbreak to counter yet another class of CC. Have you tried the PTR yet?

Actually you haven't established anything besides demonstrate that you don't want Feral to have a free glyph slot because other classes don't get it either. By your logic I could argue that rogues shouldn't get Cloak of shadows because Feral doesn't have it either. It makes no sense and you come across as petulant, which I'm sure you are.

What I've done is counter your claim that "the cat glyph should be baseline because it is 100% compulsory". As I showed by linking what, 40% of the top ferals who currently play without it, it is not compulsory for PVP. Even if it was, Blizzard do not make talents baseline just because part of the player base decide they can't PVP without it. Look at Shadowstep - widely regarded as being fundamental to rogue PVP yet no closer to being baseline than it was in patch 2.0 (this is purely an example. No, I am not butt-hurt over being denied this ability, I even see the talent as being subpar since MoP).

I never said this in regards to the discussion of the cat form glyph.

My bad, it was another person who acknowledged that dispersion (and most likely bubble) was a viable alternative to the glyph. Because it is. I'm using the cat glyph in 2v2 vs healer/dps because I'm often the kill target, but against double dps and in 3v3 I'd switch to Skull Bash glyph like a sizeable proportion of other ferals appear to do.

etc etc etc

Argumentum ad hominem is an awful debating technique. I always try and avoid it, even when it's as tempting a case as this. Oh and in answer to your earlier dig about needing to gear up my feral, I'm currently sitting at 492ilvl and waiting to spend this week's conquest on two more items. Not bad since I hit 90 on the 25th June, this catch-up system for conquest is a fantastic change to the game. Really lets you try out new classes without having to invest months in gearing up.

[gestapo]

God this is getting tedious. For the nth time, I'm playing rogue/feral in 5.3/5.4 (btw not a DK as you claimed earlier, I miss stealth too much to play one). I'm disgusted at how easy the class is at the moment and think it's comical that a) you've been requesting a buff to it in its present state and b) you think the class needs a fearbreak to counter yet another class of CC. Have you tried the PTR yet?

Glyph of cat form is a minor buff. Fear break would be a big buff, which is why I suggested bringing back Bear enrage for feral and linking it to that as well as making it a 3min cd that would force you into bear to try and break offensive pressure so that the druid can't just tunnel.

What I've done is counter your claim that "the cat glyph should be baseline because it is 100% compulsory". As I showed by linking what, 40% of the top ferals

Really? 40% of all the top ferals? Ok, i'll bite. Why don't you link all their armories if you're so sure. Again, you only linked two. Besides your argument falls short. Up to now all you've had was that Feral should not get a free glyph slot because other classes didn't get one. I don't see any problem with DK/Rogue getting a glyph baseline if it makes sense. You don't seem to get that. You're more focused on Feral NOT getting buffs than advocating better changes for your own class.

Even if it was, Blizzard do not make talents baseline just because part of the player base decide they can't PVP without it. Look at Shadowstep - widely regarded as being fundamental to rogue PVP yet no closer to being baseline than it was in patch 2.0 (this is purely an example. No, I am not butt-hurt over being denied this ability, I even see the talent as being subpar since MoP).

I'll agree with that. Blizzard won't make changes based on player feedback unless it's overwhelming, and the druid community is relatively small anyway (besides the recent FOTM re-rollers. Guessing you're in this category?). I actually would gladly take a damage nerf and keep my mobility and self-heals, but Blizzard is not going to nerf feral damage for PVE reasons.

I'd switch to Skull Bash glyph like a sizeable proportion of other ferals appear to do.

[Citation needed]

Argumentum ad hominem is an awful debating technique. I always try and avoid it, even when it's as tempting a case as this. Oh and in answer to your earlier dig about needing to gear up my feral, I'm currently sitting at 492ilvl and waiting to spend this week's conquest on two more items. Not bad since I hit 90 on the 25th June, this catch-up system for conquest is a fantastic change to the game. Really lets you try out new classes without having to invest months in gearing up.

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a dig, felt like about 20k HP short of what a fully tyrannical geared, unbuffed feral is. Though i didn't factor in Hotw.

Anyway. I change my mind. At this point i'd welcome some nerfs (as long as it's not mobility/self heals) and buffs to rogues so you guys can go back to your class or whatever the current strongest one is.

[Dcruize]

Really? 40% of all the top ferals? Ok, i'll bite. Why don't you link all their armories if you're so sure. Again, you only linked two. Besides your argument falls short. Up to now all you've had was that Feral should not get a free glyph slot because other classes didn't get one. I don't see any problem with DK/Rogue getting a glyph baseline if it makes sense. You don't seem to get that. You're more focused on Feral NOT getting buffs than advocating better changes for your own class.

I linked four, not two, go back and re-read my post. What you don't seem to get is my argument for ferals NOT getting a free glyph. It's nothing to do with other classes not getting free glyphs, it's to do with the class being OP at the moment. Not once have I said "ferals shouldn't have it because it's unfair on classes that have to spend glyphs on compulsory glyphs" - you keep going on about my reading comprehension but you're completely failing yourself.

[Citation needed]

As I said, go read my post. I gave four names out of what I think was the top ten ferals.

so you guys can go back to your class or whatever the current strongest one is.

I didn't realise feral was so silly until I tried it, if I wanted to faceroll I'd have levelled up my hunter a while ago. I chose feral because after levelling all melee classes I realised I missed stealth too much. Again with the ad hominem - I'm playing a druid therefore I'm a fotm reroller.

[Senathor]

I highly doubt it.

Feral was always the most mobile class in game. That is their core ability.

They nerfed it on Cata, and reversed in on MoP. I don't think they'll do that mistake again.

Reverting it was a mistake too becuase they already have high amounts of damage and CC. And now they have several sprints, run faster than everyone else and can shift roots. It's too much and that's why they're OP atm. Personally I just think they should let the clone changes be and just not allow them to shift roots or put it on a 1 min CD. I can just see the tears of this world if my DK had just 50 % of feral mobility.

[Snuggli]

Reverting it was a mistake too becuase they already have high amounts of damage and CC. And now they have several sprints, run faster than everyone else and can shift roots. It's too much and that's why they're OP atm. Personally I just think they should let the clone changes be and just not allow them to shift roots or put it on a 1 min CD. I can just see the tears of this world if my DK had just 50 % of feral mobility.

Honestly, i'd rather lose powershifting than instant clone. The only reason powershifting isn't going is because it's an 'iconic' ability and if, judging by the amount of tears last time, Blizzard removed it again then the amount of 'i'm quitting this game' posts would be insane.

[gestapo]

I linked four, not two, go back and re-read my post.

As I showed by linking what, 40% of the top ferals

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Talason/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Datahsz/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Yipzx/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Drcow/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%C3%B6w/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Dysheki/simple

What you don't seem to get is my argument for ferals NOT getting a free glyph. It's nothing to do with other classes not getting free glyphs, it's to do with the class being OP at the moment. Not once have I said "ferals shouldn't have it because it's unfair on classes that have to spend glyphs on compulsory glyphs" - you keep going on about my reading comprehension but you're completely failing yourself.

Your argument is weak, so here it is again since you began your anti-Feral tirade from the first post.

Because it frees up a glyph spot that can be used to take strong glyphs like Skull Bash or Fae Fire. Other classes have to glyph for defence (AMS for DKs, feint/cloak for rogues, MS for warriors) - making cat form baseline gives ferals a free glyph spot.

Besides, in addition to that you're wrong as well. Being able to keep the cat form healing and picking up the skull bash / fae silence glyph is not a huge buff. You can make an argument for feral damage/mobility being too high, but self-healing isn't an area that is a concern now that NS has been removed.

I didn't realise feral was so silly until I tried it, if I wanted to faceroll I'd have levelled up my hunter a while ago. I chose feral because after levelling all melee classes I realised I missed stealth too much. Again with the ad hominem - I'm playing a druid therefore I'm a fotm reroller.

You already had a rogue. They're quite decent if you know how to play them. Not nearly as strong as feral of course, but they were quite faceroll in the previous patch (not to mention in all but 2 average - not bad, seasons they had in the duration of wow arena) until they got gutted.

It sounds more like you're frustrated with the rogue and you're jumping on the bandwagon. I do hope Feral goes back to a Wrath identical playstyle and rogues get buffed so people like you will stop playing druids.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, i'd rather lose powershifting than instant clone. The only reason powershifting isn't going is because it's an 'iconic' ability and if, judging by the amount of tears last time, Blizzard removed it again then the amount of 'i'm quitting this game' posts would be insane.

That's the thing. It seems like this is why most druids initially liked Feral - even back when it was useless all through the first expansion and only started getting better in BC, powershifting/mobility was a huge factor. I suspect very few people would be okay with losing that ability.

Reverting it was a mistake too becuase they already have high amounts of damage and CC. And now they have several sprints, run faster than everyone else and can shift roots. It's too much and that's why they're OP atm. Personally I just think they should let the clone changes be and just not allow them to shift roots or put it on a 1 min CD. I can just see the tears of this world if my DK had just 50 % of feral mobility.

Except if they had 50% of feral mobility a lot of their other abilities wouldn't be the same. It doesn't make sense to compare them in that way.

[Ziene]

Honestly, i'd rather lose powershifting than instant clone. The only reason powershifting isn't going is because it's an 'iconic' ability and if, judging by the amount of tears last time, Blizzard removed it again then the amount of 'i'm quitting this game' posts would be insane.

Agree with this ^

Also, if you hunters are whining over roots, I go for a counter claim. Make Scare beast (why it's not a DR is beyond me) as 30-45 sec CD for feral if your upset over your zoo.

[Dcruize]

Agree with this ^
Also, if you hunters are whining over roots, I go for a counter claim. Make Scare beast (why it's not a DR is beyond me) as 30-45 sec CD for feral if your upset over your zoo.

Isn't scare beast on DR with other fears?

Honestly, i'd rather lose powershifting than instant clone.

How about a compromise of cyclone being castable in cat form with an 8sec CD on powershifting? Now that the removal of instant cyclones have been threatened, maybe people would be more accepting of a change to powershifting perhaps. Hunter's roots becoming dispellable would make the CD a lot more bearable than it would be now.

Gestapo, could you link your feral?

[KnightTrent]

R.I.P Feral

[gestapo]

How about a compromise of cyclone being castable in cat form with an 8sec CD on powershifting? Now that the removal of instant cyclones have been threatened, maybe people would be more accepting of a change to powershifting perhaps. Hunter's roots becoming dispellable would make the CD a lot more bearable than it would be now.

Gestapo, could you link your feral?

No. That wouldn't work at all. I think most Ferals would much rather this change than have mobility affected. I'm okay with damage nerfs, but that won't fly in PVE seeing as Druids aren't top tier DPS like Warlocks/Rogues are. Since Blizzard won't touch Feral damage/mobility, the only thing left was CC. As for survivability, they won't buff Feral or give it any additional defenses, but they definitely won't nerf it either (and i'm including self-heals in here as well). Again, PVE reasons.

I'd much rather move to a model where we can cast a CC that's dispellable rather than cyclone simply because of the difficulty in balancing this spell and the massive whinefest it causes. If our main CC was actually hibernate being used on humanoids and have that dispellable/breaking on damage it would be much easier to balance.

[Archiul]

well, feral has always been about PS clone. As a feral you are always on target, so you're usually out in the open. You wont be able to get a clone off in that position, which sucks. This nerf will probably get kitties out of arena. I hope this doesn't go live.