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  1. #1

    Why are most people so impatient?

    It occurs on a regular basis whenever I do dungeons (doesn't really matter whether it is low level or 90-heroics) that people feel the need to pull in front of the tanks. But for the love of god, why?

    I know that my tanking skills aren't to be questioned, I chain pull and usually grab an appropriate amount of mobs relative to the distance to a new pack. But it also happens when I queue as a healer or DPS that even though they are very much capable tanks, people just keep pulling as if their lives depend on it.

    What's the point in running miles and run back to train them on the tank? You know you have to walk that distance again right? Essentially you're doing double work which isn't efficient at all. Another thing is, people like to mess up pulls by not waiting 'till the tank is at least in range of the mobs and use an AoE ability. With this I mean, you can wait just ONE second so that the tank has direct aggro on a pack rather than attract all the mobs to you and make the tank work a double shift (or possibly triple if you're really pushing it to be annoying).

    Personally, I do whatever I can role appropriate-wise to make those people pay the price for that. As a healer, I refuse to heal people like that and as a tank, I'll just let them die and pick up afterwards. Of course I let people know when it happens, please do not pull ahead of me. But if they refuse, I'll refuse to do my job too.

    In all honesty, perhaps I can not cope with this change to the World of Warcraft. I've been a vanilla player up to the beginning of cataclysm (where I went on hiatus) and only started playing again since a month. It just really bothers me that dungeons are pretty much the same as scenarios minus the boring storytelling. I am just really used to having set roles for each player and that you couldn't continue with one or the other. So you were forced to work together and execute your roles as perfectly as you could. Because you knew that those mobs would otherwise kill you within 2 hits.

    Now it just feels like the lines between tanks, healers and dps are just blurring more and more and specs become obsolete. I mean, whenever I try to let someone die they can still manage to survive perfectly fine while not having any good gear at all. To me, that really ruins the fun in the game because I believe in having set roles for each class and spec. In most cases I end up leaving the dungeon just because of it.

    But anyways, it might just be me not being able to get used to this change. Any thoughts from other people?

  2. #2
    You didn't have this garbage back in Vanilla or TBC, dps pulls mob = dead dps. There are many other reasons but that is one of the bigger ones.

  3. #3
    I think people act like that because, as you have mentioned yourself, it is very hard to die in lower level dungeons (but also in level 90 'heroics' and lfr). Game itself is not punishing them for this kind of behaviour.

    I've also noticed recently that people don't even bother to ress those who died (for whatever reason) in dg/lfr, especially after the final boss is dead. I just don't understand that.

  4. #4
    Trivially easy content + the perceived "need" to do said content in order to cap VP = outcomes such as this. I pop into a dungeon a day on my main until I reach VP cap. Such runs usually take 15 mins tops with me generally doing double the damage of the rest of the group combined (barring another well geared person present). I let tanks pull, though, but I'm never surprised if I end up pulling something off them. It isn't intentional, and now with so many cds and utility abilities, it's a LOT harder to die compared to years ago.

  5. #5
    The problem could probably be solved to a large extent by bringing back some of the challenge to trash in instances... As it stands right now it serves zero purpose beyond wasting time, which is a joke when it becomes so clear cut that is the sole reason for it.

    An example for current instances... Make trash packs a bit harder and take longer to deal with, like the vanilla/BC instances and even wrath in some cases, but just remove a couple of pulls to keep the instance length roughly the same.

  6. #6
    There is no excuse. Simply put, you're not doing your job right if a DPS ever gets to pull before you do.

    Most of the time, in fact, it should be the DPS asking for you to slow down because they can't keep up with you.
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
    WCL

  7. #7
    lol i usually just pull the whole room for heroics now since everything is so weak even with ilvl 490 gear. So that never gives dps a chance or reason to pull more

  8. #8
    "Heroics" and all 5mans are really easy. Tanks are unnecessary if the healer/hybrids are awake (and vice-versa, actually). If the tank is being slow, why wouldn't you pull ahead of him?

    It's not impatience. It's unhandicapping yourself.

  9. #9
    Epic! g01851's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    There is no excuse. Simply put, you're not doing your job right if a DPS ever gets to pull before you do.

    Most of the time, in fact, it should be the DPS asking for you to slow down because they can't keep up with you.
    I'm guessing you're one of the dps that the OP is talking about, just a suspicion.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    "Heroics" and all 5mans are really easy. Tanks are unnecessary if the healer/hybrids are awake (and vice-versa, actually). If the tank is being slow, why wouldn't you pull ahead of him?

    It's not impatience. It's unhandicapping yourself.
    not only vice-versa but a tank could cover all 3 dps,heal,tank and stil out-dps and out-heal the others

  11. #11
    i agree. i usually just leave if i am tanking and i don't like how a group is playing. i get the deserter debuff and just log off for a half hour or do something else.

  12. #12
    As a tank on my main, it does annoy me when on dps alts with tanks who run and only pull like 1 pack at a time.

    If the tank is new/in bad gear then it is understandable, but if they have 460+ ilvl in heroics, they should be easily able to pull 10+ mobs and not die/get aggro. I guess when you are used to chain pulling, when you get a tank who doesn't, everything feels about twice as slow.

  13. #13
    Some people are not reading obviously. I am not talking about inadequate tanks, I am talking about very capable tanks. Perhaps you should spend your time on killing what has been pulled first instead of being a useless bum going out of your way to pull even more with zero added benefit. I also do not need you to fetch the boss while I still have the whole room of trash on me.

    Let the tank do his job and you should do yours. If people are making it impossible for me to perform my role, or see how they make it impossible for others, then that ruins the fun for me.

    And some people that feel that DPS should lead the rest of the group through an instance is just mind boggling to me.

  14. #14
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Sadly this is the mentality that people have gotten: I can get away with it so why wouldn't I do it. If the mobs would crush a DPS, they wouldn't do it at all. That's one thing I wish WoW had again; things should hit hard enough that they decimate DPS and healers who are stupid enough tank it, and most mobs should have frontal cleaves to punish idiots who stand in front of them. It would go a long way to teach people the right way to play.

    Again, I find it amusing so many people condone this bad behavior with "If the tank is slow I'm going to pull" when slow is subjective and this behavior reinforces bad gameplay, yet these same people will be the first ones to come to the forum to whine about bads in LFR or how terrible everybody is. Get a clue: If you help reinforce negative behavior and bad gameplay, you have only yourself to blame when that DPS charges ahead and wipes your group, because people like YOU demonstrated that it's okay to do that in dungeons.
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  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Snaige's Avatar
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    I started noticing this trend in random dungeon groups and in myself about a couple months into cataclysm. And I while I mainly play a healer so I don't pull stuff for tanks, I know well enough why I feel impatient. Those dungeons too forever to complete. If the tank is slow or the dps is very low, its even longer. Am talking to you, two hour deadmines run....
    After months of torture that was called doing cata hcs with random groups, I no longer have any tolerance for slow groups. I apologize and leave group if I can't put up with it any longer.

  16. #16
    Warchief Forgettable's Avatar
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    I am that dps that pulls extra stuff in dungeons while leveling, purposely, and often times without the tank. Let me explain my reasoning.

    1. I value my time. As such, I like to do things as efficiently as possible. Sure, we could AoE down 10 mobs in about 10 seconds. But we could also AoE down 15 mobs in 10 seconds. I would prefer the extra experience.

    2. My leveling toons always have full heirlooms to make things go faster. Dungeons are not tuned for players with full heirlooms, as such dungeons are very boring to me when done the *standard* way. Because of this, I like to make things more challenging. The only feasible way to do that in a low level dungeon is to pull extra mobs. This fulfills some of the challenge I seek.

    3. To add on to the previous post, I like to use and learn my classes abilities as I level up. The best way to do this is while you're actually playing. I cannot properly do this with a 5 mob pull that dies in a matter of seconds. But if I pull 15 mobs, then I get to make use of many of my abilities to cc, kite, stay alive, AoE, etc. Learning is best done in an area that is challenging I believe. How else will you get better?

    4. I don't need a tank or a healer (on my dps toons). Likewise, my tanks don't need healers or dps, and my healers don't need tanks or dps. Considering my toon vastly overgears the content, those roles aren't needed. I will pull what I can handle, so stop worrying about what I do, because it makes no difference if you choose to help me or not. If you want to tank those mobs and do some dps on them, great, that speeds things up and everyone benefits. If you choose not to, you're only hurting yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delti View Post
    If Forgettable knew what he was doing with his keyboard, I would totally kick his ass in dps!
    ^ My guild leader while drunk.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Shampro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaige View Post
    I started noticing this trend in random dungeon groups and in myself about a couple months into cataclysm. And I while I mainly play a healer so I don't pull stuff for tanks, I know well enough why I feel impatient. Those dungeons too forever to complete. If the tank is slow or the dps is very low, its even longer. Am talking to you, two hour deadmines run....
    After months of torture that was called doing cata hcs with random groups, I no longer have any tolerance for slow groups. I apologize and leave group if I can't put up with it any longer.
    Its a trend that blew up in Wrath when you could tank Heroic 5mans as a DPS. It stuck around. I can safely say that not for the better honestly.
    Last edited by Shampro; 2013-07-05 at 09:16 PM.

  18. #18
    Epic! g01851's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable View Post
    I am that dps that pulls extra stuff in dungeons while leveling, purposely, and often times without the tank. Let me explain my reasoning.

    1. I value my time. As such, I like to do things as efficiently as possible. Sure, we could AoE down 10 mobs in about 10 seconds. But we could also AoE down 15 mobs in 10 seconds. I would prefer the extra experience.

    2. My leveling toons always have full heirlooms to make things go faster. Dungeons are not tuned for players with full heirlooms, as such dungeons are very boring to me when done the *standard* way. Because of this, I like to make things more challenging. The only feasible way to do that in a low level dungeon is to pull extra mobs. This fulfills some of the challenge I seek.

    3. To add on to the previous post, I like to use and learn my classes abilities as I level up. The best way to do this is while you're actually playing. I cannot properly do this with a 5 mob pull that dies in a matter of seconds. But if I pull 15 mobs, then I get to make use of many of my abilities to cc, kite, stay alive, AoE, etc. Learning is best done in an area that is challenging I believe. How else will you get better?

    4. I don't need a tank or a healer (on my dps toons). Likewise, my tanks don't need healers or dps, and my healers don't need tanks or dps. Considering my toon vastly overgears the content, those roles aren't needed. I will pull what I can handle, so stop worrying about what I do, because it makes no difference if you choose to help me or not. If you want to tank those mobs and do some dps on them, great, that speeds things up and everyone benefits. If you choose not to, you're only hurting yourself.
    How about the toons that may not be so well geared, or have as much experience as you? By not playing your role properly, you ruin it for THEM too.

    Too many self-centered, arrogant peeps in this game.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable View Post
    I am that dps that pulls extra stuff in dungeons while leveling, purposely, and often times without the tank. Let me explain my reasoning.

    1. I value my time. As such, I like to do things as efficiently as possible. Sure, we could AoE down 10 mobs in about 10 seconds. But we could also AoE down 15 mobs in 10 seconds. I would prefer the extra experience.

    2. My leveling toons always have full heirlooms to make things go faster. Dungeons are not tuned for players with full heirlooms, as such dungeons are very boring to me when done the *standard* way. Because of this, I like to make things more challenging. The only feasible way to do that in a low level dungeon is to pull extra mobs. This fulfills some of the challenge I seek.

    3. To add on to the previous post, I like to use and learn my classes abilities as I level up. The best way to do this is while you're actually playing. I cannot properly do this with a 5 mob pull that dies in a matter of seconds. But if I pull 15 mobs, then I get to make use of many of my abilities to cc, kite, stay alive, AoE, etc. Learning is best done in an area that is challenging I believe. How else will you get better?

    4. I don't need a tank or a healer (on my dps toons). Likewise, my tanks don't need healers or dps, and my healers don't need tanks or dps. Considering my toon vastly overgears the content, those roles aren't needed. I will pull what I can handle, so stop worrying about what I do, because it makes no difference if you choose to help me or not. If you want to tank those mobs and do some dps on them, great, that speeds things up and everyone benefits. If you choose not to, you're only hurting yourself.


    All of your points are about you. They're all "I this" and "I that". What you and others like you forget is that YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY PERSON THERE. Sorry for caps, but people like you who only consider what they like are a huge problem with this game nowadays. Look, even if the tank just pulls a few packs at a time, the instance will only take 20 mins or so. If the extra few minutes are REALLY that important to you, log off and go do whatever is so urgent.

    I get the advantages of being able to solo to level cap, but it breeds this "me, me me" attitude that makes running random groups a chore vs a pleasure.

  20. #20
    Epic! Phookah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    There is no excuse. Simply put, you're not doing your job right if a DPS ever gets to pull before you do.

    Most of the time, in fact, it should be the DPS asking for you to slow down because they can't keep up with you.
    This might be the most ignorant/stupid thing I've ever read regarding WoW.

    OT: Just let them tank it. Someone pulls shit when I'm going I just let them tank it.
    "If MMORPG players were around when God said, "Let their be light"
    they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it."

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