As a healer, I encourage the tank to never stop pulling and to go nuts, as well as the DPS. It's fun for me and for everyone else, while also speeding things up. Nobody ever dies, nobody ever complains, and everyone generally has fun. I don't think I've ever heard a complaint. When I'm tanking, if other people pull I'll grab the mobs and get threat, because that's easy as piss. Again, it gives me something to do outside of the mundane dungeon I've run several times. On a DPS, I'll only pull if I'm fully capable of handling myself whether the tank gets aggro or no. Yes, I play the game for me instead of random people I'll never see again. In a raid or a premade group clearly it's a group effort, but when you're talking about five mans thats a complete joke. If a tank specifically says he is new and may struggle, I'll deal with it and allow him to go at his own pace. If you have an issue, say it, otherwise suck it up.
I currently have all 5 tanks at 90, and on every tank I played them at 450 gear the same as I now play them at 530 gear because all the heroic 5 man content is an absolute joke. I absolutely cannot stand slow groups, and none of my tanks need a healer, or dps in any of the heroics to live. The pace in my groups is quite literally pulling all of the trash between bosses in to the boss (and even more, in cases like Harlan in SH), and then killing it during the boss, or keeping them alive for vengeance. I can do this in shit gear, and I don't need a healer or dps for the vast majority of these pulls.
It's insanely annoying when I log over to my L90 dps, where I not only have a 10-30m queue, but I get in groups where a tank pulls 1 group at a time, waits for it to die, and waits for the healer to be at full mana before bothering to pull the next pack. Instances I normally do in 5-10 minutes are often times 30-45 minutes with a tank who doesn't keep up the pace, or dps doing less dps than I was doing back in Wrath (sub 20-30k), or a healer who is putting up less HPS than my mend pet on my hunter while ooming himself from spamming flash heal on the tank who isn't taking any damage. Once this is all done I, once again, have another 10-30m long queue for another 30m long dungeon. It's simply inefficient and terrible play from those people. It makes me not want to play this game when I have to play with people as inept, or inexperienced as that. Don't get me wrong, if someone says, "Hey guys, first time in here at 90, sorry if my dps sucks, let me know if I can do anything better." then I will definitely provide them with insight about their class, explain fights, etc. Otherwise I assume you aren't special needs and can wear your own big boy pants and know what you're doing.
In addition to this, as a main tank, I realize that douchebag DPS pulling shit or forcing me to move quicker also make me a stronger tank (no longer the case now, as dps never move faster than me, but still). You either adjust, learn, and become better, or complain about someone else making your experience less than optimal and beg that Blizzard gets rid of the douchebags in the game that make your life difficult. Frankly there's only 1 truly viable option there, and it's not the latter.
LFD and LFR put different type of mentality and players together.
There is something to be said about the player who is new, isn't overgearing, or simply prefers a slow pace.
There is also something to be said for the min-maxing, overgeared, time valuing veteran as well.
In the end the majority decides what is going to happen. If the majority finds the tank pulls slowly, they can ask the tank to pull quicker or replace the tank. If you join a 5 man and you start pulling before their healer has respecced and then cry the tank is still in the loading screen it is you who has to adapt.
For me, if I see a DPS or healer pull anything while I tank, I ignore their existence for that pull. The mob and the player do not exist for me, and I will walk past them and pull next. Since I however can behave like that when I am myself DPSing or healing I don't have negative feelings towards them though.
Now if I pull something as healer or DPS its either 1) a mistake 2) something I can solo or kite. If I die, I do not complain at the tank.
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"When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."
I love it when a (smart) healer or dps just mounts up and goes off to aggro a bunch of mobs and then stacks on me. Makes it a lot easier. Only thing that annoys me is people that try and overpull when they have no idea about casters not running towards you. If you can LoS them after aggro'ing, be my guest, but being in combat with 10 mobs around me to AoE, it won't speed up anything really if you grab 3 more on a distance that aren't in the pack and just stand there hitting us with their spells.
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Awesome avatar by Visenna!
I liken it to cars. Sure the speed limit is 100 MPH but everyone has their own opinion on how fast to go. Some go 150, others go 120, others will go exactly 100, others will go 90 and other people 80. Each one of them wants to go their own speed.
Personally, I started playing in Vanilla and learned never to pull. Even if I have to wait 5 minutes I will wait until the tank pull. As well, I personally hate when people pull constantly. I would rather take a few seconds to gather myself rather then rush on to the next pack of mobs.
Because time is money friend
When it happens that DPS pulls mobs before you do, the fault is not at the DPS, it is at the tank. I haven't had DPS pulling mobs for me in years, because I know my limits and for the life of it I push those limits. A lot of tanks seem to fail to do that.
So, if DPS is pulling mobs for you, you don't know your limits or are too lazy to play to your limits. Get better.
It's the difference between two mindsets.
A: I'm playing a game, so I'm going to take my time and enjoy myself.
B: I'm playing a game, and it will be more fun if I pull half the instance.
Low lvl tanking, i see an heirloomed DPSer pulled a pack WAY otherside of the room i let em kill it as i assume they know their shit and manage without me
When tanking in 90 im often too far ahead for the dpsers to pull...Enter dungeon->all trash before boss+boss>repeat until done (Yes i play a blood DK :P )
Everybody whos talkin about dungeons missed the point really.
People are impatient because the modern world has made everything faster and more accessible, people who grew up with this new technology have not developed the patience required to wait in a civilized manner (thus they act like children, because in that respect they are undeveloped.)
WoW is just an example... I have people honking at me at a stop sign before I even finish stopping; throwing a tantrum in their car when the traffic doesn't move how they want it to. I see examples like that all the time as a teacher and I can't help but notice similarities between how the two (adults and kids) act when they are forced to wait.
Perhaps everyone should be forced to spend a stint in the Army... where their in-service motto is "Hurry up and wait." Do wonders for everyone and the world with a few less (mentally) children around.
Last edited by Jaojin; 2013-07-12 at 04:01 AM.
"And what's the real lesson? Don't leave food in the fridge."
As for the topic itself, I'd just let them die if they ran ahead of me while I was tanking. Tanks dictate the pace, and there's no rule saying you have to go as fast as humanly possible. Especially in low levels, that's where people are generally learning to tank in the first place. People trying to get the hang of it aren't going to want to pull the whole dungeon at once.
Of course back then the only way A tank could pick up a mob from a distance was with a throwing knife.
As for the Rogues well they also engaged the mobs before I did simply because of Sap, The game used to require a group use tactics that often required someone other than the tank to take initiative for a pull (something that sadly died with vanilla.)
There's too many reasons to just dismiss slow play as 'handicapping'.