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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    And what if the player is new to tanking and still gauging how they should pull, or is unfamiliar with the dungeon (not everyone is on their tenth alt and decked out in heirloom gear looking to hit 90 ASAP)? This kind of behavior reinforces bad gameplay and bad playstyles. Quite frankly it doesn't matter if you CAN do it, you SHOULDN'T for the betterment of the game as a whole.
    Yes they should be looking to hit 90 asap. Lower level dungeon are a terrible place to learn to play your class. For example, if I played my rogue like I did when leveling it, I'd be spamming 2pt envenoms because everything die before I can get to 5 points.

  2. #62
    As a healer, I encourage the tank to never stop pulling and to go nuts, as well as the DPS. It's fun for me and for everyone else, while also speeding things up. Nobody ever dies, nobody ever complains, and everyone generally has fun. I don't think I've ever heard a complaint. When I'm tanking, if other people pull I'll grab the mobs and get threat, because that's easy as piss. Again, it gives me something to do outside of the mundane dungeon I've run several times. On a DPS, I'll only pull if I'm fully capable of handling myself whether the tank gets aggro or no. Yes, I play the game for me instead of random people I'll never see again. In a raid or a premade group clearly it's a group effort, but when you're talking about five mans thats a complete joke. If a tank specifically says he is new and may struggle, I'll deal with it and allow him to go at his own pace. If you have an issue, say it, otherwise suck it up.

  3. #63
    I currently have all 5 tanks at 90, and on every tank I played them at 450 gear the same as I now play them at 530 gear because all the heroic 5 man content is an absolute joke. I absolutely cannot stand slow groups, and none of my tanks need a healer, or dps in any of the heroics to live. The pace in my groups is quite literally pulling all of the trash between bosses in to the boss (and even more, in cases like Harlan in SH), and then killing it during the boss, or keeping them alive for vengeance. I can do this in shit gear, and I don't need a healer or dps for the vast majority of these pulls.

    It's insanely annoying when I log over to my L90 dps, where I not only have a 10-30m queue, but I get in groups where a tank pulls 1 group at a time, waits for it to die, and waits for the healer to be at full mana before bothering to pull the next pack. Instances I normally do in 5-10 minutes are often times 30-45 minutes with a tank who doesn't keep up the pace, or dps doing less dps than I was doing back in Wrath (sub 20-30k), or a healer who is putting up less HPS than my mend pet on my hunter while ooming himself from spamming flash heal on the tank who isn't taking any damage. Once this is all done I, once again, have another 10-30m long queue for another 30m long dungeon. It's simply inefficient and terrible play from those people. It makes me not want to play this game when I have to play with people as inept, or inexperienced as that. Don't get me wrong, if someone says, "Hey guys, first time in here at 90, sorry if my dps sucks, let me know if I can do anything better." then I will definitely provide them with insight about their class, explain fights, etc. Otherwise I assume you aren't special needs and can wear your own big boy pants and know what you're doing.

    In addition to this, as a main tank, I realize that douchebag DPS pulling shit or forcing me to move quicker also make me a stronger tank (no longer the case now, as dps never move faster than me, but still). You either adjust, learn, and become better, or complain about someone else making your experience less than optimal and beg that Blizzard gets rid of the douchebags in the game that make your life difficult. Frankly there's only 1 truly viable option there, and it's not the latter.

  4. #64
    LFD and LFR put different type of mentality and players together.

    There is something to be said about the player who is new, isn't overgearing, or simply prefers a slow pace.

    There is also something to be said for the min-maxing, overgeared, time valuing veteran as well.

    In the end the majority decides what is going to happen. If the majority finds the tank pulls slowly, they can ask the tank to pull quicker or replace the tank. If you join a 5 man and you start pulling before their healer has respecced and then cry the tank is still in the loading screen it is you who has to adapt.

    For me, if I see a DPS or healer pull anything while I tank, I ignore their existence for that pull. The mob and the player do not exist for me, and I will walk past them and pull next. Since I however can behave like that when I am myself DPSing or healing I don't have negative feelings towards them though.

    Now if I pull something as healer or DPS its either 1) a mistake 2) something I can solo or kite. If I die, I do not complain at the tank.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fungai View Post
    As a healer, I encourage the tank to never stop pulling and to go nuts, as well as the DPS. It's fun for me and for everyone else, while also speeding things up. Nobody ever dies, nobody ever complains, and everyone generally has fun. I don't think I've ever heard a complaint. When I'm tanking, if other people pull I'll grab the mobs and get threat, because that's easy as piss. Again, it gives me something to do outside of the mundane dungeon I've run several times. On a DPS, I'll only pull if I'm fully capable of handling myself whether the tank gets aggro or no. Yes, I play the game for me instead of random people I'll never see again. In a raid or a premade group clearly it's a group effort, but when you're talking about five mans thats a complete joke. If a tank specifically says he is new and may struggle, I'll deal with it and allow him to go at his own pace. If you have an issue, say it, otherwise suck it up.
    As a healer I queue as healer, stick in DPS spec, and keep the tank alive with off heals. Or in the case of monk I fistweave.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  5. #65
    I love it when a (smart) healer or dps just mounts up and goes off to aggro a bunch of mobs and then stacks on me. Makes it a lot easier. Only thing that annoys me is people that try and overpull when they have no idea about casters not running towards you. If you can LoS them after aggro'ing, be my guest, but being in combat with 10 mobs around me to AoE, it won't speed up anything really if you grab 3 more on a distance that aren't in the pack and just stand there hitting us with their spells.

    Awesome signature/avatar by Visenna!

  6. #66
    I liken it to cars. Sure the speed limit is 100 MPH but everyone has their own opinion on how fast to go. Some go 150, others go 120, others will go exactly 100, others will go 90 and other people 80. Each one of them wants to go their own speed.

    Personally, I started playing in Vanilla and learned never to pull. Even if I have to wait 5 minutes I will wait until the tank pull. As well, I personally hate when people pull constantly. I would rather take a few seconds to gather myself rather then rush on to the next pack of mobs.

  7. #67
    Because time is money friend

  8. #68
    Legendary! Sigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekin View Post
    You didn't have this garbage back in Vanilla or TBC, dps pulls mob = dead dps. There are many other reasons but that is one of the bigger ones.
    They should bring this back tbh. Regardless of gear level. if DPS pull mobs then they should die.

  9. #69
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    There is no excuse. Simply put, you're not doing your job right if a DPS ever gets to pull before you do.

    Most of the time, in fact, it should be the DPS asking for you to slow down because they can't keep up with you.
    I don't understand why people are taking this so negatively. Often times I see tanks that are "completely adequate". They do tanking fine and they move to the next pack when the one they're tanking is dead, sure, but what they don't do is maximise the time it takes to kill X number of mobs in relation to what they can tank.

    When it happens that DPS pulls mobs before you do, the fault is not at the DPS, it is at the tank. I haven't had DPS pulling mobs for me in years, because I know my limits and for the life of it I push those limits. A lot of tanks seem to fail to do that.

    So, if DPS is pulling mobs for you, you don't know your limits or are too lazy to play to your limits. Get better.

  10. #70
    It's the difference between two mindsets.

    A: I'm playing a game, so I'm going to take my time and enjoy myself.

    B: I'm playing a game, and it will be more fun if I pull half the instance.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    not only vice-versa but a tank could cover all 3 dps,heal,tank and stil out-dps and out-heal the others
    Or I can just solo all of them on my Hunter. If I could queue them alone for the daily 80 valor I would.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Meleti View Post
    It's the difference between two mindsets.

    A: I'm playing a game, so I'm going to take my time and enjoy myself.

    B: I'm playing a game, and it will be more fun if I pull half the instance.
    C: I'm playing a game so I'm going to do some stuff I don't want to do so I can get currency because... well I have to, right?

  13. #73
    Low lvl tanking, i see an heirloomed DPSer pulled a pack WAY otherside of the room i let em kill it as i assume they know their shit and manage without me
    When tanking in 90 im often too far ahead for the dpsers to pull...Enter dungeon->all trash before boss+boss>repeat until done (Yes i play a blood DK :P )
    I put the laughter in manslaughter
    Blood DK problems: to many ppl at daily place, cant pull 8packs *cries*
    BF3>CoD Cola>Pepsi PC>Mac Xbox>PS3

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Low lvl tanking, i see an heirloomed DPSer pulled a pack WAY otherside of the room i let em kill it as i assume they know their shit and manage without me
    When tanking in 90 im often too far ahead for the dpsers to pull...Enter dungeon->all trash before boss+boss>repeat until done (Yes i play a blood DK :P )
    You're the kind of tank it is a pleasure and an honor to DPS alongside. As a good DPS player, I love tanks that are smart enough to recognize when I can handle my own crap and save us all some time. Godspeed sir.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    You're the kind of tank it is a pleasure and an honor to DPS alongside. As a good DPS player, I love tanks that are smart enough to recognize when I can handle my own crap and save us all some time. Godspeed sir.
    And ur the kind of DPS i want ^^
    I put the laughter in manslaughter
    Blood DK problems: to many ppl at daily place, cant pull 8packs *cries*
    BF3>CoD Cola>Pepsi PC>Mac Xbox>PS3

  16. #76
    Mechagnome Jaojin's Avatar
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    Everybody whos talkin about dungeons missed the point really.

    People are impatient because the modern world has made everything faster and more accessible, people who grew up with this new technology have not developed the patience required to wait in a civilized manner (thus they act like children, because in that respect they are undeveloped.)

    WoW is just an example... I have people honking at me at a stop sign before I even finish stopping; throwing a tantrum in their car when the traffic doesn't move how they want it to. I see examples like that all the time as a teacher and I can't help but notice similarities between how the two (adults and kids) act when they are forced to wait.

    Perhaps everyone should be forced to spend a stint in the Army... where their in-service motto is "Hurry up and wait." Do wonders for everyone and the world with a few less (mentally) children around.
    Last edited by Jaojin; 2013-07-12 at 04:01 AM.
    My girls: Karin, Haku, and Meimei

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotsforyou View Post
    Ya. I argue with people in my guild about it all the time. They love being able to play the game Solo. I do not understand why anyone would want to play an MMO and have it revolve around solo play. EVERYTHING in the game should require a group. Really wish questing in groups was mandatory as well. Really miss all the pre LFG/LFR days. Worst decision blizz has ever made was LFG/LFR.
    And those of us who enjoy being able to do things alone don't understand why people like you want to force everyone to group for everything. There's a difference between playing for yourself, but cooperating with people you get matched with, and doing things your own way to hinder others. I want to be able to do whatever I want in game, on my own terms, but I'm still cooperative. If you enjoy grouping for everything, then find like minded people and have your fun. But don't act like us having the chance to do things our own way is ruining your game. By trying to remove those options, you're actually the ones trying to ruin the experience of others.

    As for the topic itself, I'd just let them die if they ran ahead of me while I was tanking. Tanks dictate the pace, and there's no rule saying you have to go as fast as humanly possible. Especially in low levels, that's where people are generally learning to tank in the first place. People trying to get the hang of it aren't going to want to pull the whole dungeon at once.

  18. #78
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    I'm usually asking dps to wait a bit, so I can grab all the trash between bosses and we can easily aoe it down. So whole dungeon is complete in like 3-4 pulls + boss fights.
    Lethora, 90 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 90 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU
    Raiding 25man, 10hrs/week, 13/14H.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheekin View Post
    You didn't have this garbage back in Vanilla or TBC, dps pulls mob = dead dps. There are many other reasons but that is one of the bigger ones.
    We must remember Vanilla Differently because I distinctly remember that as a tank I let the hunters pull the majority of mobs.
    Of course back then the only way A tank could pick up a mob from a distance was with a throwing knife.

    As for the Rogues well they also engaged the mobs before I did simply because of Sap, The game used to require a group use tactics that often required someone other than the tank to take initiative for a pull (something that sadly died with vanilla.)

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    "Heroics" and all 5mans are really easy. Tanks are unnecessary if the healer/hybrids are awake (and vice-versa, actually). If the tank is being slow, why wouldn't you pull ahead of him?

    It's not impatience. It's unhandicapping yourself.
    & what if one or more of the group are undergeared? say, gearing a fresh 90 alt? try doing level 90 Heroics with 4 other players all in quest greens & blues. it ain't Cata 1st tier HC hard, but it certainly ain't 'really easy'.

    There's too many reasons to just dismiss slow play as 'handicapping'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    [12:07:45] <+Radux> i think Bibi should post a super passive agressive message in there. like "OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON."

    OH NO LOVE FOR BIBI. I SEE HOW IT IS. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR CREATING THE SITE. CARRY ON.

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