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  1. #21
    Field Marshal Rokugan's Avatar
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    Okay were also working on Heroic Lei Shen 25 and I've been using Shockwave.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vs.../?s=707&e=1303

    I'm not consistantly at the top really depends on early procs in P1 and how many globals I can get off during AOE

    Phase 1 I've been eating crashing thunder in zerker stance.

    Intermission D stance and go through the motions.

    Phase 2 Battle Stance BB SW adds WW

    Intermission

    Phase 3 Zerker stance load SW adds and WW and Execute Boss

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokugan View Post
    Okay were also working on Heroic Lei Shen 25 and I've been using Shockwave.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vs.../?s=707&e=1303

    I'm not consistantly at the top really depends on early procs in P1 and how many globals I can get off during AOE

    Phase 1 I've been eating crashing thunder in zerker stance.

    Intermission D stance and go through the motions.

    Phase 2 Battle Stance BB SW adds WW

    Intermission

    Phase 3 Zerker stance load SW adds and WW and Execute Boss
    That's pretty good dps without using reckstorm. In phase 1 I start at 200k but then dwindle down to 170 to 150k.

    With us the adds die so damn fast. Adds are up maybe for 4 secs tops. This is one of my longest attempts.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9251&e=9876

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by galvin View Post
    With us the adds die so damn fast.
    Could be worse - you could have a monk tank on top of that.

  4. #24
    He shouldn't be 11/13 and lacking basic Fury warrior mechanics..

  5. #25
    shockwave definitely yields you the most control with a good bit of damage in 25 man. 10 man I would take dragon roar. If the 3 adds ever group up you can dragon roar to reset their cast time and keep them from jumping. But generally, WW glyph should allow him to maintain boss as the target and cleave the adds down. If one is high for whatever reason, charge it and kill it quickly.

    Berserker stance on crashing thunder is a good way to get a bit of rage, and if your healers are cool with it, sit in it for a while to gain more rage.

    Damage can change quite a bit due to how many things spawn on your platform in intermission.

    There is no reason to have avatar, bloodbath is better.

    Tell him to track the cooldown on his colossus smash as he isn't using it enough. I'm too lazy to compare logs, but I'm pretty sure his rotation is not up to par. He needs to focus on cleaning that up on a target dummy to the point where he can do it virtually with his eyes closed.

    apart from what has already been said in this thread, proper use of berserker stance can net a few more % of damage. p3 near the end you get a lot of incoming damage.

  6. #26
    I am starting on 25M H Leishen too.

    Bladestorm ? Yes/no ? We currently have 3 warlocks and 3 warriors in our 25m

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    I am starting on 25M H Leishen too.

    Bladestorm ? Yes/no ? We currently have 3 warlocks and 3 warriors in our 25m
    Do you have a Brewmaster, do you have a reliable stunner, are you SMF or TG?

    If you have a Brewmaster, you shouldn't need to AoE, unless you're TG, then take BS.
    If you have two good Monks, and you are TG, Take BS.
    If either of the above ain't true, go with SW.
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  8. #28
    Moderator sjsctt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    I am starting on 25M H Leishen too.

    Bladestorm ? Yes/no ? We currently have 3 warlocks and 3 warriors in our 25m
    Bladestorm by far yields the most DPS. For instance, on our .4% wipe, I was up to 249k. However, shockwave is more valuable for progression. We didn't kill it until both me and our other warrior went shockwave. Your DPS will be much lower, but thats ok. Control>DPS.

    A few tips:
    1. Mass SR the lightning chain as often as possible. This only works during p1/p2/p3 and NOT the transitions. Positioning will be key with this. It is FREE damage to the boss, and depending on your strat, can do up to 8 million dmg. The only bad thing is you don't get credit for it (the logs just show Lei Shen taking dmg from it, but not who it is from.)

    2. If they want you to solo soak, there is a good chance you can. You will need to go defensive stance, glyphed shield wall, and Die by the sword. You probably don't have enough HP to do it when the conduit is leveled up, but for p1 transition you can.

    3. Take enraged regen. The only time heals are spread this is transitions. You may not have anything to hit when you need a self heal and second wind doesn't help enough.

    4. In P3, let the range aoe and you single target. Yes, even if Bladestorm is off CD.

    5. This is the hardest thing to understand: in P1, up through the transition and until there are ads in P2....you will probably be bottom of the meters. This doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong. Without dragon roar, we are a little gimped single target. I was getting really discouraged until I started watching other warriors livestream and I realized it wasn't just me. Just try to be over 150 or 160k going into first transition.

    6. In transitions, if you need to blow raid cds to keep yourself or someone on your platform up, do it. This is very much a raid awareness fight.

    This is one of our stronger fights this tier. We start off a little weak in the fight, but have powerful raid cds and good burst aoe.

  9. #29
    Field Marshal Rokugan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsctt View Post
    I was getting really discouraged until I started watching other warriors livestream and I realized it wasn't just me. Just try to be over 150 or 160k going into first transition.
    I've been using SW and almost consistently going into first intermission at 200k. Stay in zerker stance and soak almost the entirety of crashing thunders and of course make sure to spend down that rage. make sure you are maxing ur CS windows and using ur BB through out. I've gone into intermission as high as 220k and as low as 180k

  10. #30
    For progression kill , need advice on optimal strat lineup. Our core team lineup looks like this:

    Tanks: BM, DK, Pala (all geared. BM most geared)
    Melee dps: 3 fury, 1 ww, 2 rogues, 1 DK (another is undergeared sim dps 170k), 1 RET, 2 ferals, 1 enhance
    Ranged: 3 warlocks, 3 mages, 3 booms, 3 shadow priests , 2 hunters

    Our core is totally open to fielding the best possible lineup for progression kill. People don't mind sub

    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    Do you have a Brewmaster, do you have a reliable stunner, are you SMF or TG?

    If you have a Brewmaster, you shouldn't need to AoE, unless you're TG, then take BS.
    If you have two good Monks, and you are TG, Take BS.
    If either of the above ain't true, go with SW.

  11. #31
    I don't agree with Bloodbath lovers. Bloodbath is better than avatar on single target, and when the dps line is linear till end. But, Avatar is far more superior than BB on lei shen, like rest of many other fights.
    Avatar is better on Aoe based fights or like, horridon tortos magaera twins and lei shen. If singe target fight is around 3.20m-4.10m, avatar is better. 2x avatar > 4x bloodbath, don't forget it. Also avatar at start with full proc and avatar at execute phase with 2nd pot is far more powerful and more effective than 3x or 4x BB.

    For the topic, use berserker stance carefully on first and last phase. Do not stay in berserker stance in p3 when there is no wind. On p2 and 3, always save your berserker rage for aoe. Ball lightning spawntime is 45 sec on p2 and 30sec on p3. Always use zerger rage and keep yourself enraged on whole aoe duration. Always use zerger rage before bladestorm.

    This is tonights log of mine, current rank#1 at 25m hc:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1273&e=1925

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragefreak View Post
    I don't agree with Bloodbath lovers. Bloodbath is better than avatar on single target, and when the dps line is linear till end. But, Avatar is far more superior than BB on lei shen, like rest of many other fights.
    Avatar is better on Aoe based fights or like, horridon tortos magaera twins and lei shen. If singe target fight is around 3.20m-4.10m, avatar is better. 2x avatar > 4x bloodbath, don't forget it. Also avatar at start with full proc and avatar at execute phase with 2nd pot is far more powerful and more effective than 3x or 4x BB.

    For the topic, use berserker stance carefully on first and last phase. Do not stay in berserker stance in p3 when there is no wind. On p2 and 3, always save your berserker rage for aoe. Ball lightning spawntime is 45 sec on p2 and 30sec on p3. Always use zerger rage and keep yourself enraged on whole aoe duration. Always use zerger rage before bladestorm.

    This is tonights log of mine, current rank#1 at 25m hc:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1273&e=1925
    This guy is hilariously wrong. Not like anyone should take advice from someone who says to cap OH expertise, or who uses primo trinket over feather.

    For one, the ONLY advantage Avatar would have over BB is if the adds lasted less than 3 seconds.

    For another you use zerker rage DURING bladestorm if enrage drops, no need to use it before. shouts, brage can both be cast while bladestorming.

    But ye, if you think avatar>BB during execute phase you are flat out wrong.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-07-12 at 12:34 AM.

  13. #33
    You prove on every single message of yours that don't have enough experience or capacity to understand any conditions i'm talking about. Primo trinket is quite handy on some situations, yet you don't have enough room on your little brain. You just read which one is better from icy-veins or which ever you're following and keep arguing about it here. Shut the hell up already, you're talking like with no experience. You are just another standart warrior who keeps talking about standart skills and bis items. That does not happen like that in 25m hc. Please give me some logs and prove me wrong.

    I'm giving tips to a rookie warrior to improve his dps. Just to be sure he needs to use zerger with BS. The guy can not even follow his colossus smash rotation, and you suggest him to use zerger rage if it fades during bladestorm ? Then sorry you are horrible teacher or you're just an idiot. If i'm so wrong, if i'm so mistaken, then where are all the other good warriors doing the right thing ? Whole warrior community is too bad to beat someone playing wrong ?

    Current topic is Heroic Lei Shen Warrior questions, and i'm sitting at rank#1 of 25m heroic rankings atm. Who the f are you anyway ?
    Last edited by Ragefreak; 2013-07-12 at 01:15 AM.

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragefreak View Post
    You prove on every single message of yours that don't have enough experience or capacity to understand any conditions i'm talking about. Primo trinket is quite handy on some situations, yet you don't have enough room on your little brain. You just read which one is better from icy-veins or which ever you're following and keep arguing about it here. Shut the hell up already, you're talking like with no experience. You are just another standart warrior who keeps talking about standart skills and bis items. That does not happen like that in 25m hc. Please give me some logs and prove me wrong.

    Current topic is Heroic Lei Shen Warrior questions, and i on top of 25m rankings atm. Who the f are you anyway ?
    Sigh. I am the person who TAUGHT numerous players in top US guilds. I'm the person with standing invites to 5 top US guilds. I am the person who has taught over 50 warriors, ranging from 6/12 normal to 13/13H. I'm the guy whose been trying to get icy veins, noxxic, askmrrobot, etc to improve their sites. I'm the guy who looked at your armory and pointed out numerous things you were doing wrong. Such as how you could gem better.

    But in the end it isn't about who anyone is. It is that one can arrive at an objective answer to these questions. You can use math to show the correct answer. And yours are wrong.

    Besides, this is a MATH problem, not one of experience. I can get people who are also 13/13 to agree with me if you want. It's not hard.

    See, your answer is "neer neer I have more XP I'm right." Mine has the defense of math, sims, and numerous testings from many others, as well as peer revision.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...rtise-Question

    And here is yet another place we proved you wrong.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-07-12 at 01:25 AM.

  15. #35
    Okay defense of math is your only escape point. Please explain me how in the earth 4x BB beats 2x avatar. You are the person who's bullsh1tting here all day, that's what you do. Because i just checked sky high chineese logs and here what it is:
    rank#1 http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v.../?s=972&e=1592
    rank#2 http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...7/?s=149&e=793
    world 1 and world 2 ranked chineese warriors.
    Both used avatar. Listen here carefully sucker because that is who you are. Rank 1 uses primordus trinket. Yeah in your face. It's better on situational like i said before, remembered ? and you arrogantly come against and tried to abuse against me without even had any idea what i was talking about. And lei shen is one of those.

    You are missing this point. Your claims are only thoughts and theories. Mines are my expertise.

    Also, i never ever said anything against fabled feather of jikun trinket, or bloodbath. You started flaming when i said primo trinket and avatar is more viable on some conditions without having any idea of what i'm talking about. Now that i strongly proved that to you on 2x world and 1st west rank, you can seriously shut up.

    Or may keep bullsh1tting without ever seeing the bosses we're arguing about.

    And 1 thing yet you still don't know about. Offhand expertise effects raging blows and whirlwinds main hand attacks. Because they're united damage you cannot hit one and dodge one. It's full dodge or full hit. Just like you are missing MH expertise.

    No point going further on this arguement and going off topic. I put my thoughts and proved with my log and top chineese logs there. It's your choice and style. Blood bath still viable yet avatar is few steps ahead.
    Last edited by Ragefreak; 2013-07-12 at 01:57 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragefreak View Post
    Okay defense of math is your only escape point. Please explain me how in the earth 4x BB beats 2x avatar. You are the person who's bullsh1tting here all day, that's what you do. Because i just checked sky high chineese logs and here what it is:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v.../?s=972&e=1592 WORLD RANK 1 Chineese warrior
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...7/?s=149&e=793 WORLD RANK 2 Chineese warrior

    Both used avatar. Listen here carefully sucker because that is who you are. Rank 1 uses primordus trinket. Yeah in your face. It's better on situational and lei shen is one of those.

    Now you may keep bullsh1tting without ever seeing the bosses we're arguing about.
    Alright. Here's what I've posted 200000 times about bloodbath vs avatar.

    Bloodbath gives a 30% damage bonus to all yellow attacks for 12 seconds, "munched" for 6 seconds, so the total debuff lasts 18 seconds. 1 minute CD
    Avatar gives 20% damage to all damage for 24 seconds, 3 minute cd.

    Yellow damage is 75% of our damage overall, but is very likely 85% of our damage during time-frames when we are using bloodbath; aka colossus smash and the few gcds right after. I'll split the difference and err on the side of caution, and say that yellow damage is 80% of our damage.

    So Bloodbath effectively is a (0.8*.3) 24% damage increase for 12 seconds, and can be used 3 times more than avatar, for a total of 36 seconds every 3 minutes.

    So we're comparing a 24% damage increase for 36 seconds to a 20% damage increase for 24 seconds.


    4x Bloodbath = 24% damage increase for 48 seconds (24 seconds of which are during CS)
    2x avatar = 20% damage increase for 48 seconds (20 seconds during CS)

    You have no clue what you are talking about.

    Also, of course chinese logs are going to spank my logs, they have 8 ilevels over me. Just because someone happens to use avatar and get a #1 parse doesn't mean that avatar is best, because ultimately the damage difference between bloodbath and avatar is in the <1k range. Simple RNG can explain the difference there. I could unequip a ring and still manage a top 50 rank on some encounters, but it doesn't mean that running into battle with 1 slot empty is a winning idea.

    #1 parses are almost always a result of the following:
    1: Strategy that favors an individual. If my guild let me kill ball lightning by myself, you bet your ass I'll have a #1 H LS parse.
    2: Incredible rng. 50% uptime on feather, 100% crit rate on execute, etc.

    So using #1 parses to prove your point is completely invalid. Now, if most of the top 50 parses used Avatar, then maybe you'd have an argument based on parses.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2013-07-12 at 01:59 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    For progression kill , need advice on optimal strat lineup. Our core team lineup looks like this:

    Tanks: BM, DK, Pala (all geared. BM most geared)
    Melee dps: 3 fury, 1 ww, 2 rogues, 1 DK (another is undergeared sim dps 170k), 1 RET, 2 ferals, 1 enhance
    Ranged: 3 warlocks, 3 mages, 3 booms, 3 shadow priests , 2 hunters

    Our core is totally open to fielding the best possible lineup for progression kill. People don't mind sub
    Without knowing how each individual in your team performs, it's hard to tell you what lineup you should be using. All I'll be able to do is give you some general pointers, at what's needed, and what's good to have.

    Starting with what's needed, you need 2DKs, 1-2good stunners, ally warlocks you can get your hands on, and as many who can solo soak the Static Shock as possible.

    For the griping, you can either use your two DPS DKs, which would be preferable, or one DPS, and your blood DK. I'd recommend using your two DPS DKs, just due to the fact that Brewmaster and Prot Paladins are the two strongest tanks for that fight.

    For stuns you have two options.
    Option 1 is to tell one of your warriors to use Shockwave, preferably a SMF warrior, as they lose close to nothing from it. The good thing about this is that the warrior can stun every single wave of balls.
    Option 2 is to use two Monks who can Legsweep every second set of balls. The upside to this is that their stun lasts for 5seconds, so you have slightly more time to kill each wave of balls.
    If you trust your Monks to stun, then let them do it, their stun is better, but if you don't Shockwave is almost as good.

    The more warlocks you can field, the better. If you use all three of your warlocks, you'll have no issues with Helm of Command in the transition phases, and you'll have an easy time getting back into grip range in phase3.

    The last thing you have to think about is who the players in your guild who can handle Static Shock in a reasonable fashion.
    Out of the people you listed, only your Warriors, your shamans, and one of the boomkins can't solo soak a static Shock.
    We warriors can almost solo soak, if we use SW, DbtS, Rally and Defensive Stance, but we need at least 1+ other person to soak with us.
    Shamans can pop all their CDs, but they need 2+ to help them soak.
    The third Boomkin with be able to get Cloak of Shadows, so he'll need to use all his CDs, and preferably 2+ to help him soak.

    If any of the above classes gets the first Static Shock in the transition phase, they should use all their personal CDs and get help from as many as possible. If you don't have enough people who can help, don't be afraid to call for raid CDs, you won't need any in the second phase anyhow. If any of the above classes gets the second Static shock, use any remaining CDs, and tell everyone on your section to use theirs too, they will be up again for the second transition.

    The Classes that are the best to help others out are Rogues, who can feint, Mages, who can Greater Invis / Iceblock and tanks, who just need to use some active mitigation.

    The most important thing tho is practice. Once you've done the fight enough times, people will learn what to use, and when to use it.

    That's what I could think about, if you have any more questions, just fire away.
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  18. #38
    @Collision
    You are right about logs they are not %100 right and trustworthy and rng can result a lot of surprises. Yet the comparison is absurd.

    Your point of view about BB and avatar is too narrow. You can't see the first avatar is starter and 2nd one is finisher in execute phase. Both combined with skull banner and recklessness and pot. You cannot just say all 4 BBs are equal. Starter and execute BB cause almost double damage than 2nd and 3rd BB. You cannot seriously assume all are same and say 0.8x .3 %24 for 48 seconds. You just can't.

    Only if we could use 2x Bloodbath in row for 24 seconds at start and 24 seconds at execute phase with combined all other cooldowns and 2nd pot, then you'd be right on the math. %24 > %20 would be correct. But it is not like that. You have to use your 12 seconds bloodbaths in the middle of fight, while doing 160-180k dps instead of doing 300 400k. God knows if you have trinket procs there..

    And 1 more thing, i'm not insisting on the point of avatar. I'm just telling that it's viable after all and even 1 step ahead of BB on lei shen.

    Also you mentioned about using strategy about killing balls. In same kill my warlock friend also got rank#1 and you can check ball damages. Ofcourse they do not allow me to solo it then i would be over 400k :P
    Last edited by Ragefreak; 2013-07-12 at 02:21 AM.

  19. #39
    Look, here's ultimately the secret to getting #1 overall on H. Lei Shen.

    Let's examine that fight.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1273&e=1925

    1: It looks like your raid was setup so that you and the monk were dedicated to killing ball lightning, while everyone else was kinda "meh", or was just awful at it.
    http://gyazo.com/90725f460eea84a66813ec2f51fe7ccd

    As you took 10:50 to kill H. Lei Shen, that means that you also had more ball lightning overall to kill, as you had 2 additional spawns of ball lightning compared to my kill.

    http://gyazo.com/a7e7b79b1b495f0de8ff927296628b24

    2: You guys either failed miserably on standing in bouncing balls, or intentionally let them hit the ground to inflate damage numbers of everyone in the raid.
    http://gyazo.com/a28076b030c5fcfd2fd239b300918472

    Compare that to the dude at #2:
    http://gyazo.com/396fc5fee805034032118b13dc45c733
    or my log
    http://gyazo.com/7a95061a0fe15fbad586ed0e846766e0

    You gained 16 million damage, compared to my log, from adds that shouldn't have existed. If I tack on 16 million damage to the 130 million damage that I did on my best parse, that's about 27k dps, and my 219k would have been 246k, beating your #1 parse. Oh. I was also 540 ilevel equipped in my parse, compared to your 549.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2013-07-12 at 02:50 AM.

  20. #40
    Carrying 5+ alts on main raid is the key of my rank#1. On aoe based fights carrying people increases dps of people on top of meter. It's otherwise on single target fights. Single target fights must happen in shortest, opposite of aoe fights. Longer the fight takes on longer time to increase dps on aoe phases, that's not a secret.

    Yet we do not use any assigned players to kill balls. Everyone in raid does the killing. I'm doing most of the burst with monk tank, almost destroying the balls in 2 seconds. This is stealing dps from the other classes. We did let 2 3 unharnessed live through p3 on each bouncing, to increase tank vengeance and my aoe on balls attacked those too.

    But you are again wrong on your math. You just cannot erase my aoe damage from those as minus and have a result. If i weren't doing the aoe there at that time, do you think i was standing still empty handed, and not dpsing not executing ?? That was just a minor upgrade to result. Aoe dps instead execute dps, wouldn't be so different.

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