Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,995

    Thrall, Garrosh, comparable to the story of moses?

    Ever since cataclysm took place, there's been this pretty obnoxious attitude of people began to regard Thrall as being 'green jesus'. 'Oh he wears a robe and does these super shaman things and walks on water he's so jesus now".
    Yeah, its pretty obnoxious and bears nothing of comparison. Its just said because people with little imagination like to throw it around.

    However, oddly enough, when I was watching a movie review of comparing the story of the ten commandments to that of the prince of egypt, and remembering the movies, it dawned on me that, oddly enough, well I think comparing Thrall to that of jesus (durr hur hur he wears a hood he's jesus), what does seem to fit from a biblical point of view is that of Moses, and not just him, but that of Ramesses.

    Now well the story of the prince of egypt in its lineal sense isn't something you really can compare to a warcraft story, you can see certain similarities to it that befitting these two characters.

    Thrall, an orc who discovered his destiny to be that of freeing his captured people from slavery and imprisonment, who crosses an ocean with his people to escape the captors and be free.
    And that of Moses, the once prince of egypt who came down to the same level as the slaves themselves, was given a message from god to free the slaves and lead them to salvation, who stands against his own brother and leads his people across a parted ocean.

    Also, comparing Garrosh to that of Ramesses kind of works too. If you don't count it in a lineal sense.
    Garrosh, an orc who believes only orcs are destined to rule the world and him being the absolute ruler of that world. All others would bow to his greatness and only him and his kind will be that which matters, even at the cost of thousends of lives.
    Now Ramesses, the prince turned king ruler of his kingdom, imprisoning thousands as his slaves to build his empire with there blood and sweat, regarding Moses as weak, and even how he will not be a weak link, following in his fathers footsteps.

    Well its not completely held, such as if you compare Thrall to Moses and Garrosh to Ramesses, it was the humans that Thrall lead his people to there salvation from, and its not now Thrall leading his people away from Garrosh-ala-Ramesses, but he is now coming to fight garrosh to free his people from Garrosh's rule, and that of the horde and those who have suffered under garrosh.

    I strongly suggest you watch or read up on the story of moses to understand why I've made this comparison. Do I think the jesus comparison is stupid? Yes, its just some morons saying it the same as the mary sue crap. But from a biblical standpoint the story of moses is what actually can be compared, if you want to use any kind of symbolism, not just for Thrall but Garrosh to, and it wouldn't surprise me if the developers did get some inspiration from the tale. After all Thralls a character who legacy was given to him, despite his reluctance, and Garrosh's belief in his kingship/warchiefdom to the point of seeing all others as scum under him, is comparison.

    Even when hearing the speech Garrosh gives to Thrall in the final encounter, you could watch the story of the prince of egypt and compare how Ramesses regards Moses and all he's done and believes in as nothing compared to his absolute rule and dominance as the same.

    so, if you were to say 'green moses', at least I'd know your actually trying to make a literally effort.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-07-06 at 11:01 PM.

  2. #2
    I agree, I remember someone mentioning it before here http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...6&postcount=51

    People need to stop with Green Jesus, it's like they don't even know who he is

  3. #3
    I always thought the Green Jesus comparison stemmed from the near-messianic undertones they gave his character? I still don't agree with the comparison, but I did think there was more behind it than 'derp robe and hood'.

  4. #4
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    I agree, I remember someone mentioning it before here http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...6&postcount=51

    People need to stop with Green Jesus, it's like they don't even know who he is
    Ah thanks, thats even better. And the comparison to Medivh being the voice that guides Thrall to lead his people to there salvation also proves its more a closer comparison.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    I always thought the Green Jesus comparison stemmed from the near-messianic undertones they gave his character? I still don't agree with the comparison, but I did think there was more behind it than 'derp robe and hood'.
    It was never an intelligent comparison, it was just people with little imagination spouting bullshit.
    As I've said, and apparently I'm not the only one who agrees. Thrall is more like moses.

  5. #5
    i dont remember the jews being aliens who raped and slaughtered thousands of egyptians for their alien overlords

  6. #6
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i dont remember the jews being aliens who raped and slaughtered thousands of egyptians for their alien overlords
    try reading between the lines.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    try reading between the lines.
    my family is jewish and being compared to orcs who raped and killed thousands of people is pretty insulting. the orcs were enslaved for a reason, an important reason. they tried to kill every living thing on the planet.

  8. #8
    Thrall as Moses during WC3, fine. There are some parallels in their stories.

    Garrosh as Ramesses, not so much. Thrall's people (broadly defined to encorporate all Horde, not just Orcs) are not being enslaved. Some are being oppressed, but not even close to being enslaved. Thrall isn't going there to liberate his people and lead them to the Promised Land. He's going there to depose Garrosh.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-06 at 11:19 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,032
    Not really at all. This is like when people say Lord of the rings is comparable to WW2. So many differences, so many.

    Thrall could totally part the sea though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    my family is jewish and being compared to orcs who raped and killed thousands of people is pretty insulting. the orcs were enslaved for a reason, an important reason. they tried to kill every living thing on the planet.
    Knew someone was gonna throw a religious curveball in here. Oh look something may or may not have happened to some people I for some crazy reason consider myself related to a bazillion years ago, now you have offended me.
    Last edited by Riavan; 2013-07-06 at 11:21 PM.

  10. #10
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    my family is jewish and being compared to orcs who raped and killed thousands of people is pretty insulting. the orcs were enslaved for a reason, an important reason. they tried to kill every living thing on the planet.
    And yet the orcs themselves were enslaved by the legion and made into puppets used to kill.

    I've already said the comparison to the story of moses isn't absolute in what I'm describing, but the characters themselves in the story of moses is.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    And yet the orcs themselves were enslaved by the legion and made into puppets used to kill.

    I've already said the comparison to the story of moses isn't absolute in what I'm describing, but the characters themselves in the story of moses is.
    pretty sure they chose to drink the demons blood there.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,032
    Don't forget a human brought the orcs to azeroth and if ur gonna say "he wasnt concious of his actions!" then yeah, neither were the orcs.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Riavan View Post
    Don't forget a human brought the orcs to azeroth and if ur gonna say "he wasnt concious of his actions!" then yeah, neither were the orcs.
    medivh was possed by one of the most powerful beings in the universe. the orcs willingly drank demons blood they were completely conscious of their actions. agewynn was a stuck up selfish bitch though and ruined her babies life

  14. #14
    Wait a minute Thrall is Moses, er have you even read that story properly? Moses starts of by running away from Eygpt for the murder he committed (granted it was done to prevent a Hebrew from being beaten but still). Next up god commands Moses to return to Egypt but on route god almost kills Moses as his son isn't circumcised. When Moses finally gets there he basically strong arms the Pharaoh into releasing the slaves by unleashing 10 plagues the last of which is the death of the first born. Afterwards he leads his people to freedom across the desert, Pharaoh changes his mind pursues and is finally drowned when the oceans Moses parted with his staff promptly close on them. After this he converses with god and gives out the 10 commandments. So are you really saying that the Jesus analogy has no grounding but somehow Thrall's story parallels that of Moses?

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,032
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    medivh was possed by one of the most powerful beings in the universe. the orcs willingly drank demons blood they were completely conscious of their actions. agewynn was a stuck up selfish bitch though and ruined her babies life
    The orcs were also being lead by, guess who.
    They drank the blood, did they know it would turn them into mindless crazy murders? Not so much, they thought it would give them power to get rid of the draenei who were planning on attacking them. Tricked by some of these "most powerful beings in the universe" that you mention.

  16. #16
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Having beers with Dorothy
    Posts
    17,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Daws View Post
    Wait a minute Thrall is Moses, er have you even read that story properly? Moses starts of by running away from Eygpt for the murder he committed (granted it was done to prevent a Hebrew from being beaten but still). Next up god commands Moses to return to Egypt but on route god almost kills Moses as his son isn't circumcised. When Moses finally gets there he basically strong arms the Pharaoh into releasing the slaves by unleashing 10 plagues the last of which is the death of the first born. Afterwards he leads his people to freedom across the desert, Pharaoh changes his mind pursues and is finally drowned when the oceans Moses parted with his staff promptly close on them. After this he converses with god and gives out the 10 commandments. So are you really saying that the Jesus analogy has no grounding but somehow Thrall's story parallels that of Moses?
    I'm going to copy and paste what was said over on scrolls of lore:

    Moses & Thrall

    Birth Narrative: Both are orphaned as a babe and raised by the "enemy," the people who enslaves his race of origin. Moses and Thrall are both given an education that mark them as learned men. (This is less so in the Hebrew Bible, but in the later traditions, such as in Acts 7 or Josephus.) The primary difference is that Moses was, ironically, continued to be nursed by his biological mother, and his parents remained alive. And Moses, as a Hebrew child, was also the target of the killing by the oppressive power, whereas Thrall's parents were the target of the killing by the corrupt power in his own people.

    Rediscovery of Identity: Then at a certain point in their lives, both end up escaping the home of their upbringing and fleeing into the wilderness. This marks a period of rediscovery in which Moses and Thrall learn what it means to be Hebrew and Orc, respectively. Moses learns from his kinsmen, the Midianites, while Thrall learns from the Frostwolves and Warsong Clan. But the process also involves a rediscovery of a "lost" spiritual tradition, with Moses learning of the god of his ancestors, and Thrall learning of the shamanism of his ancestors. Moses experiences the Burning Bush theophany thereby becoming a prophet, while Thrall has a spiritual quest thereby becoming a shaman. Both will become "the greatest spiritual leaders" known by their civilizations.

    The Liberation: Both figures return to the home of their upbringing in order to liberate their enslaved people. The liberation provides "spiritual proof" in the form of "signs and wonders" that validates their respective spiritual traditions. This involves a confrontation with the people of their past, though the Pharaoh is unnamed. One of the key differences here is that Orgrim Doomhammer's death serves a similar function as the death of Moses, who is unable to enter the Promised Land. And Orgrim's passing of the authority of the Horde to Thrall is similar to Moses's passing of the authority of the Hebrews to Joshua.

    The Exodus: Medivh serves the role of Yahweh, in that both figures promise a land of salvation for the Orcs and Hebrews, respectively. Moses leads his people across the Red/Reed Sea, which symbolizes the effective "birth" of Israel. Thrall leads his people across the Great Sea, which symbolizes the effective "birth" of Durotar. Thrall rekindles the previous spiritual tradition of his people and provides laws and spiritual program that form the basis for their future civilization. Also with both, their older brothers (i.e. Aaron and Grom, figuratively) die prior to the settlement of the land. And both the Hebrews and Orcs are referred to as being something of a "stiff-necked" and stubborn people who tend to fall back on old sinful habits and wicked ways.

    The Conquest of the Promised Land
    Thrall and Moses arrive to the "Promised Land," which amounts to an arid desert that is hardly overflowing with anything. Thrall and Joshua then conquer the Promise Land and its native people.
    The comparison doesn't have to be point for point perfect, but its clearly there.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    my family is jewish and being compared to orcs who raped and killed thousands of people is pretty insulting. the orcs were enslaved for a reason, an important reason. they tried to kill every living thing on the planet.
    My family is jewish and I get that it isn't a comparison of character, it's a comparison of story.

    You're reading too deeply into it and making connections that are irrelevant to the point. It's only insulting if you're trying to be insulted.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2013-07-06 at 11:37 PM.

  18. #18
    Grunt Jakkresh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    19
    Khaleesi Thrall Stormborn?

    I think they're apt comparisons. Well done!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    my family is jewish and being compared to orcs who raped and killed thousands of people is pretty insulting. the orcs were enslaved for a reason, an important reason. they tried to kill every living thing on the planet.
    Any race of Azeroth, just as any ethnicity on Earth, doesn't deserve to be enslaved for their crimes nor the crimes of their ancestors. I hope you don't mean to defend slavery as an institution or to suggest that future generations (of orcs) are beyond redemption.

  19. #19
    Thrall is called green jesus because he's displayed in game, and by his fans as a humble, wise, and overly mystical and powerful leader who acts as a savior to redeem the Orcs from their previous transgressions and teach them the new religion of shamanism. And as a person who has suffered for his people and would gladly throw away his life to bring them happiness. Not to mention all the crap about him being the precised redeemer from Orgrim's prophecy.

    People don't just say it because he walks on water and wears a robe.

    Trassk, you have a really, really bad habit of starting threads where you basically say "HERE'S MY VIEW, AND IT IS RIGHT AND IF YOU HAVE AN OPPOSING OPINION YOU ARE WRONG AND STUPID".
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it. -Boubouille

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    Thrall is called green jesus because he's displayed in game, and by his fans as a humble, wise, and overly mystical and powerful leader who acts as a savior to redeem the Orcs from their previous transgressions and teach them the new religion of shamanism. And as a person who has suffered for his people and would gladly throw away his life to bring them happiness. Not to mention all the crap about him being the precised redeemer from Orgrim's prophecy.
    Pretty sure it's a derogatory term made by those who think he became super overpowered during the events of Cataclysm.

    The way you're explaining it it sounds like a compliment... it's never used that way :d

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •