Turn Evil

[Tecnice]

So does this mean we will have an instant fear in PvP or am I just reading the 5.4 changes wrong?
I also hear people stating that we get more CC in 5.4. Is this turn evil change the only addition to 5.3 CC or did I miss something else? Thanks guys.

[razorfire]

So does this mean we will have an instant fear in PvP or am I just reading the 5.4 changes wrong?
I also hear people stating that we get more CC in 5.4. Is this turn evil change the only addition to 5.3 CC or did I miss something else? Thanks guys.

as I understand it the talent change for paladins does in fact mean you get a fear in PVP (cause we really needed more of those..), not certain of the duration or conditions for breaking it or even if you get any other major CC changes, but hey you get a fear that no longer gets unused on anything but DK's casting lichborne.

[Tecnice]

as I understand it the talent change for paladins does in fact mean you get a fear in PVP (cause we really needed more of those..), not certain of the duration or conditions for breaking it or even if you get any other major CC changes, but hey you get a fear that no longer gets unused on anything but DK's casting lichborne.

Sounds pretty awesome to me. Being new to Paladin I always hated rarely being able to kill them in PvP. Feels good to be on the Light side!

[Tangra]

Sounds pretty awesome to me. Being new to Paladin I always hated rarely being able to kill them in PvP. Feels good to be on the Light side!

You're not reading the patch notes wrong but you didn't read all of them. Glyph of Turn Evil is currently being redesigned, so Turn Evil will probably not be instant any more, we have no clue what the new glyph will do. That being said, yes it's a totally normal warlock style fear with a 1.5 sec cast time but only 20 yard range. It shouldn't break on damage and should behave more or less like any other fear.

[Tecnice]

*waits patiently*

[Tangra]

*waits patiently*

Unfortunately, they are taking their sweet time, it's been 3 ptr builds since the old glyph was removed. Hopefully, the glyph is taking a while to make because it's interesting and complex, but that's just wishful thinking. It also looks like they are updating and buffing glyphs in general this patch, for eryone; so they might be waiting until they revamp all of the other Paladin glyphs as well to put them on the PTR all at once.

[Morally Grey Storm]

what it really means is that Ret paladins will now choose between Fist of Justice, or ... Fist of Justice.
Prot's choice wont matter at all (like it mattered before?..),
And Holy will be dumbfounded by this very much difficult choice between an Incapacitate and a Fear.

[Valedus]

as I understand it the talent change for paladins does in fact mean you get a fear in PVP (cause we really needed more of those..), not certain of the duration or conditions for breaking it or even if you get any other major CC changes, but hey you get a fear that no longer gets unused on anything but DK's casting lichborne.

Can be used on WAY more than just DK's....

Priest pets (Mindbender/Shadowfiend AND Psyfiend)
Lock Pets
Unholy Pets (GARGOYLE)

[Tecnice]

I've been hearing lately that Ret is about as squish squish as anything; so I'd love to see some nice CC if it doesn't break the game.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I've been hearing lately that Ret is about as squish squish as anything; so I'd love to see some nice CC if it doesn't break the game.

how come casted CC makes a melee fighter less squishy?

[Ryve]

how come casted CC makes a melee fighter less squishy?

While stuff is running around feared, it isn't popping it's CDs and killing you? How most ranged work, survivability through not letting people hit you.

[Lucetia]

as I understand it the talent change for paladins does in fact mean you get a fear in PVP (cause we really needed more of those..), not certain of the duration or conditions for breaking it or even if you get any other major CC changes, but hey you get a fear that no longer gets unused on anything but DK's casting lichborne.

Except what you and most others are forgetting is we have to give up a 30 second stun in exchange just to be able to fear Humanoids. Then if you want it instant you give up a glyph slot, which isn't as bad in PvP I think.

[Tecnice]

While stuff is running around feared, it isn't popping it's CDs and killing you? How most ranged work, survivability through not letting people hit you.

^This. Buffing our defenses would potentially make us gods with all the burst we have. An appropriate measure to mitigating incoming damage is to stop it from ever happening. It requires more skill to survive but not by a large margin by any means.

[Kowloon]

The 5.4 Turn Evil talent seems attractive at best but it'll never replace Fist of Justice in PvP.

[Deleted]

Atm on PTR, Turn Evil is not instant although the cast time is shorter than Repentance.

There are other benefits aswell vs. Rep:

- different dr so better synergy with certain classes, i.e. hunters
- displaces the target putting them in a bad position
- does not break on non truth damage like rep - I can get at least a judgment & prism off if not a judgment + exorcism before the next attack breaks the fear

its a nice buff and ret are getting some survivability and damage buffs too but they still feel too reliant on wings + guardian not to mention the usual problem of being useless during blankets

similarly to no cd casted cyclone for ferals, I think it'll be better vs. spellcleaves and worse vs. melee cleaves.

[Tecnice]

The 5.4 Turn Evil talent seems attractive at best but it'll never replace Fist of Justice in PvP.

I suppose you're right.

[Morally Grey Storm]

While stuff is running around feared, it isn't popping it's CDs and killing you? How most ranged work, survivability through not letting people hit you.

ever wondered why Rets do not utilise Repentance in the same manner huh?
Perhaps it has something to do with famous Paladin Stupidity, I guess.
Or, something with the fact that Repentance has a fething cast time which, as a melee, you cant afford.

^This. Buffing our defenses would potentially make us gods with all the burst we have. An appropriate measure to mitigating incoming damage is to stop it from ever happening. It requires more skill to survive but not by a large margin by any means.

yeah, I can see clearly how a casted CC, as a melee spec, would improve my survivability, sure as sure.

and ret are getting some survivability buffs

for example?..

[Ryve]

The 5.4 Turn Evil talent seems attractive at best but it'll never replace Fist of Justice in PvP.

Wouldn't that dependon what other CC you have?

Melee would rather be stunned in place than feared and have a huge gap between them and the guy they were just wailing on... Ranged on the other hand would rather be feared and given a free gap than stunned in place and attacked.

[Tecnice]

Why do you keep saying casted CC? At this point it could be either casted or instant we are unsure of it's nature for live 5.4.
Yes, instant CC's improve survivability..

[Morally Grey Storm]

Wouldn't that dependon what other CC you have?

Melee would rather be stunned in place than feared and have a huge gap between them and the guy they were just wailing on... Ranged on the other hand would rather be feared and given a free gap than stunned in place and attacked.

It would depends firstly on what spec you have, because as a Ret, you will never ever ever pick a casted CC, and as a Holy, you will never ever pick Fist, because Holy can cast, unlike Ret, and as such, can create a longer CC chain with BL+Stun+fear/Rep combo.

Why do you keep saying casted CC?

because its casted and it WILL stay being casted?
Just imagine, how totally balanced it would become, if Fear were to be instant cast, and Holy could pick it?
There's no snowball' chance in hell.