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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheathx View Post
    They have not yet nerfed vengeance, it's at least no where in their patch notes that they have. They said it will either be 5.4 or well into the future (next expansion) that it happens. If they've already done gimmie a link to the post showing so, I'd like to see it.

    Also if you believe paladins need a nerf, Surely you haven't seen this.
    Not sure if it's live yet or not, but I imagine it will be. Don't see any reason why they wouldn't put it live in 5.4

    As for me believing paladins need a nerf - what does a DK soloing old content have to do with it? Their selfhealing scales with haste and he used the heroic sha of fear buff to get enough haste to survive. He's also in about 80 item levels more than the content was designed for. Him being able to solo sha of fear 10 man normal has nothing to do with how powerfull DK's are, but rather, how DK's mitigation works (through selfhealing) and how gear scaling affects them VS bosses that has small hits.

    I don't think anyone that has a clue about the current raiding enviroment can say that Paladins are fine where they are - currently, they're at the top of utility, top of damage mitigation, and close to the top on damage output.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheathx View Post
    He is soloing a boss, which was just last tier, If it was last expansion sure why the hell not. But to be the just the previous tier? Ya totally
    underpowered.


    That is a Hunter (Mione) soloing Atramedes while it was current content. Soloing =/= Tanking abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Alysrazor was solod by various mages/priests while it was CURRENT tier. NOT past tier, CURRENT tier. The mechanics behind that STILL have not been fixed.

    In addition, this guy solod Omnitron during FL, if im not mistaken (Or was it Mionelol? cant remember).

    So, nothing really big here.
    Was Mione again.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Comming from a completly neutral PoV (I don't even play a paladin or any other tank) -
    It's a justified change. Paladins output vs damage taken this tier has been completly out of control.
    Using Ra Den 25 heroic, the hardest hitting boss that has been in the game, these are the numbers we see from the rank 1 paladin, brewmaster, warrior and bear druid (DK's can't really tank ra den, so excluded them).

    Damage taken:
    Brewmaster: 260K per second.
    Paladin: 141K per second.
    Druid: 173K per second.
    Warrior: 160K per second.

    Damage done per second:
    Brewmaster: 547K.
    Paladin: 531K.
    Druid: 415K.
    Warrior: 381K.
    I just want to point out that the bold is incorrect. To quickly use WoL to determine damage taken by a Brewmaster, use healing taken. Damage taken does not account for staggered damage (at least 48% physical damage is staggered with mastery buff) so the Monk is listed as taking up to 2x what they actually did, depending on how much they purified.

    What you'll find is that the Monk in this situation requires 138432.1 HPS(e), which is lower than the other tanks you listed.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterbom View Post
    Might want to head over to the ptr forums for that and don't forget that dps is adjusted at the end on the ptr cycle.
    Then it's a good thing that they read this forum too.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I don't think anyone that has a clue about the current raiding enviroment can say that Paladins are fine where they are - currently, they're at the top of utility, top of damage mitigation, and close to the top on damage output.
    I'd argue that paladin and monks are tied in that respect.
    However it's not that paladin/monks need a nerf (lol keg smash buff) but that dk's / warriors / druids need a buff.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    DKs definitely need a buff, but they have to be careful on how they buff them, too much and DKs will solo current tier(or last tier, Sha isn't as big, as the entire fight is based on the platforms, and was "exploited" by having Heroic buff).

  7. #27
    Pretty much what Celinamuna said, monks are atleast tied with paladins and arguably stronger, and I do believe that both paladins and monks are fine where they are. dks/warriors/druids are however not fine where they are. They need buffs.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Then it's a good thing that they read this forum too.
    If you really care about this you should also let them know on the official forums, still a bit early though.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterbom View Post
    If you really care about this you should also let them know on the official forums, still a bit early though.
    If it too early then why bother putting in the PTR?

    And why would I want to repeat myself twice?

  10. #30
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    The change isn't a big deal, the value of the glyph can be argued but the general defacto set up is alabaster/dp/x with FS being the most common final choice. Having two glyphs almost always locked in isn't something in line with the idea of glyphs, hence the change. Also by nerfing the dps contribution of those it takes the edge off needing glyphs like holy wrath, which is aids in the current set up.

    This isn't the proper venue to discuss paladin vs the world, since if we are seeing any major paladin changes it won't be in the form of this change. You can purse logs yourselves to find numbers, but this change will barely be noticed.

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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Choice View Post
    The change isn't a big deal, the value of the glyph can be argued but the general defacto set up is alabaster/dp/x with FS being the most common final choice. Having two glyphs almost always locked in isn't something in line with the idea of glyphs, hence the change. Also by nerfing the dps contribution of those it takes the edge off needing glyphs like holy wrath, which is aids in the current set up.

    This isn't the proper venue to discuss paladin vs the world, since if we are seeing any major paladin changes it won't be in the form of this change. You can purse logs yourselves to find numbers, but this change will barely be noticed.
    You no longer running BH at all? I personally use BH/Alab/X for 99% of current content, perhaps out of laziness, but I just find it works best "all around" unless I'm trying to rank or something. The redux to BH makes it less mandatory I suppose, but still find it quite useful. Really should get rid of it for soloing though ><

    I agree that the Alab nerf is nearly non-consequential though. I usually fire off ShotRs so fast that it rarely stacks above 1x, so I'll likely just replace it with FW fulltime, and use the remaining slot to float FS/DP for ST fights and Alab for MT.
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