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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Fumblez View Post
    They didn't bring original ideas, had majorly gamebreaking features, or just not enough content...so they kind of were broken. WoW has so many subs because of its reputation alone. What other games do you see South Park making episodes of?
    Dose the Golden Psp Episode count.

    Also if you are base's how popular wow is because south part made a episode about it there is something wrong with you.

    The only people bitching is those wanna be elitist the casual's are playing the game and the Hardcore is playing the game its the group in the middle that just want to bitch about something.

    Yes wow is losing subs but it still stands that a huge amount 95%+ of the player base is casual and blizzard is doing what they can to keep them happy because they make up most of the player base.

    Rift is as good to a TBC game as any game has come and look where its subbs and all is at. If wow stayed that way it would not be a p2p game it would have way less subs and good chance ether f2p or f2p/p2p like rift is now.

    Also ever since release one of wow's main reasons it has so much subs was because how casual it was compared to other MMO's. You think Vanilla/TBC was hard go play Everquest or other MMO's around the same time.

    The real question is when will the mods start closing these threads faster since they are 100% pointless and only made to start a fight.
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  2. #62
    OP you better have killed Ra-Den a couple months ago.

  3. #63
    its not broken

  4. #64
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    OP you better have killed Ra-Den a couple months ago.
    Sorry but I really dislike this kind of thinking.

    The games difficulty system is flawed to shit.

    You have LFR = AFK levels of easy (literally)
    Normals 10/25 = Faceroll, with 1 wipe a boss at most.
    HC's = Unrealistically large jump to difficult content, sometimes its gear dependant as well.

    Theres no middle ground, you go from doing nothing, to doing not much, to wiping every day for months.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Flatspriest View Post
    They only had 12million active subscriptions at the peak so where are you getting this 30 million from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Last Blizzcon (I think), a dev said (during the time of 10 million players) that there are three times as many people who don't have a active sub. Meaning 30 million had quit.
    Think of it as the population of a species. While many die, there are many who are born.
    Interview from Nov 2009 when WoW had 11.5M subs:
    Originally Posted by Rob Pardo
    I don't know what the exact number is off-hand, but the total number of subscribers we've had is easily more than double - maybe closer to triple - the current subscriber base. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Sorry but I really dislike this kind of thinking.

    The games difficulty system is flawed to shit.

    You have LFR = AFK levels of easy (literally)
    Normals 10/25 = Faceroll, with 1 wipe a boss at most.
    HC's = Unrealistically large jump to difficult content, sometimes its gear dependant as well.

    Theres no middle ground, you go from doing nothing, to doing not much, to wiping every day for months.
    Kinda why blizzard is making flex raiding.....its to be the stepping stone from LFR to Normal.

    Also if LFR was so AFK easy then everyone would be able to AFK and boss's would just drop but like with any group setup if so many of the group do nothing then good chance you will fail. Its just that it require's a lot more people afking/dead to make it fail then what normal/heroic mode requires.
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  7. #67
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
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    People need to keep in mind that WoW has lost like ~25% of it's playerbase every last two quarters, so making the game too accessible and casual might not be the solution either.

    If you recall Blizzard during their earnings call said something like: "There is little commitment from our casual players," which to me reads something like: "our western subscribers which only play a few hours every week are uninterested in subscribing for periods longer than a month or two."


    So ironically enough the casuals seem the ones who are the least interested in staying with WoW, even if the game is being heavily catered to them. But the fact that they were the majority of the subscribers leaving, probably will mean that they'll get catered to even more in the future... Ironically again, it's the ones who care the least about the game are the ones who know how to vote with their money best and have the biggest influence on the game.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Sorry but I really dislike this kind of thinking.

    The games difficulty system is flawed to shit.

    You have LFR = AFK levels of easy (literally)
    Normals 10/25 = Faceroll, with 1 wipe a boss at most.
    HC's = Unrealistically large jump to difficult content, sometimes its gear dependant as well.

    Theres no middle ground, you go from doing nothing, to doing not much, to wiping every day for months.
    I know of very very very very few guilds that wipe once on normals but find heroics extremely difficult. I don't buy your nonsense on that in the slightest.

    The main point behind my post is that there is plenty of hard content in the game and if you're some random LFR player complaining about the game being too casual then you're completely out of line because you're not even challenging yourself at the level you should be.

    Nobody in my decent 13/13H guild thinks the game has been 'casualized' too much, and neither does anyone in other top guilds I've talked to about the concept. The people that complain about this stupid nonsense are frankly speaking way out of line with extreme exaggeration and poor experience or credentials to back their absurd claims.

  9. #69
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Kinda why blizzard is making flex raiding.....its to be the stepping stone from LFR to Normal.

    Also if LFR was so AFK easy then everyone would be able to AFK and boss's would just drop but like with any group setup if so many of the group do nothing then good chance you will fail. Its just that it require's a lot more people afking/dead to make it fail then what normal/heroic mode requires.
    No flex raiding is just to accomodate people who cant fill a raid group. It doesnt serve to increase difficulty past a very very tiny margain. The difficulty jump is between normal and HC.

    Also lets not bullshit ourselves, LFR is worthless when it comes to difficulty. Bosses die to the worst dps imaginable. It is the lowest possible form of difficulty ive seen in a game. Even cheat codes require you to learn something...

  10. #70
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    I've always been pretty optimistic about wow and defended every change, patch and expansion.. But the real problem I started to see so often that I could not deny or defend, was the decreasing quality of their work ever since cata.
    It's blatantly on your face, the amount of ridiculous bugs, their unwillingness to make things that arguably don't keep the max lvl player busy (like gilneas city, or filling lore hangups) or the fact that they don't pay as much attention to minor details that you won't affect a raid or your gear.
    It saddens me to admit that it looks like Blizzard sees WoW as a dying cow that they want to milk as much as possible before it passes out...

    "Posting impassionately, they say you don't care. Posting nothing, they say you ignore. Posting with passion, you incite trolls. Posting fluff, you say nonsense. Post with what facts you have, they whittle down with rationale.
    There is no win, there is only slow degradation." Tseric and the truth about WoW community.

  11. #71
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    Nobody in my decent 13/13H guild thinks the game has been 'casualized' too much, and neither does anyone in other top guilds I've talked to about the concept. The people that complain about this stupid nonsense are frankly speaking way out of line with extreme exaggeration and poor experience or credentials to back their absurd claims.
    First of, casualness and accessibility has very little to do with the difficulty of the game in some secluded end-game place. There is -very- little reason for anyone wanting to do normal or heroic mode raiding, because everything most people enjoy about raiding can already be found in LFR. Content, bossmodels, lore and gear. Most people just can't be arsed with commiting to a raidshedule, nor should it be the standard for any MMO game today. Organized raiding is a pretty backwards activity.

    Blizzard should be able to offer non-casual content for people who don't want to commit to a raidshedule either. So even LFR-only people have the right to complain about the game being too casual.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I sound like a poster on a fansite who recognises how completely unrealistic it is to expect Blizzard build the game around the demands of a tiny portion of the playerbase.
    While I would agree with you based on the # of posts to # of players, the more interesting thing to me would be to know the opinions of the millions of people that have quit over the past few years that never voiced their opinion.

    I think that it is flawed to just assume that the people posting their opinion are the only ones with that opinion. If all of the people that have quit over the past few years were still happy with the game, then why did they quit?

    If say the gas station that I go to stops providing the service or product that I go there for, I don't feel the need to voice my displeasure, I just stop going there.

    Those are just some things to keep in mind when claiming that a certain group are in the minority, when the actual information is unavailable.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I'm not even sure what you're talking about. This has nothing to do with a vocal minority.

    This has to do with the ratio of casual players compared with others. Blizzard themselves have most comments on multiple occasions about the proportion of the playerbase that is more "casual" and the huge amount of players who have quit the game because of the low accessibility level and the amount of content that was unavailable to them.

    Even if it was true that more hardcore players have left because they are mad about other people being able to participate in content that was previous exclusive to them than other players who were disappointed that they couldn't participate in end game content, that isn't the case now. Features like LFR/LFD and other "accessibility" features are enormously popular and have resulted in more people participating in the content than ever before. Blizzard would be shooting themselves in the foot to reverse that now. It would alienate a huge portion of current players and I think it's completely naive to think that millions of "hardcore" players are going to flood back to the came to make up for the loss of them.

    If players want a game with tons of exclusive content that only the top 1% can participate in, that's fine, but WoW isn't the game for them anymore.
    How can this come from a mod, I dont understand. The majority of players still don't raid. Those who do use mostly LFR. Do you think LFR is fun? Maybe once but it is extremey watered down and unfulfilling, unless all you want is free epics. And again you are only talkin about the endgame. What about everything in between?

    I'll say it again. Being bad and not dedicated to a game does not equal to being casual. When the whole game becomes trivialized to the point where thinking is not required, where you get rewarded for not trying and sitting in the capital, people get bored and stop paying for something trivial.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by ManOluck View Post
    Maybe your opinion is the narrow and biased?

    If these threads keep popping up as you say maybe there is something very wrong with the game and it's current direction that is pissing alot of people off.
    Those complaining represent a small minority of the player base.
    Blizzard even stated that the number in LFR has been several times greater than those participating in normal raiding.
    You really need to look at why normal raiding is simply not attracting, or keeping hold of fresh blood.
    The people already there are why, because if the content is as "easy" as some are making it out to be, why are not more people moving up the ladder ?

    Notice how despite the huge popularity of LFR the number of threads complaining about it way outnumber the amount praising it.
    People will make a thread to complain more readily to complain than they will to praise something.
    The LFR bashing threads represent a minority of the opinion as shown pretty clearly by the majority who post in them speaking out against that opinion, but they still represent the majority of the noise.

    Those who are upset have the biggest mouth.

    The game is about 10 years old, it has a substantial cost entry barrier to get "up to date", it is now in the minority with its subscription finance model, and the competition is simply greater in quantity than it has ever been.
    The game has always churned through players, but was attracting new ones.
    For a game people are so keen to bash as being too easy, or too "casualised" it is not keeping hold of new players, not attracting them.
    Therefore your argument is rubbish.
    Something is putting people off, and given the low entry points it must be something other than the game itself.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-07-07 at 03:02 AM.

  15. #75
    Nope. What they are doing is great, with the exception of selling things in the cash shop like pets and mounts, and not making them available via means in the game. That is wrong. Everything else is fine.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    That is the only solution. Since casual make up almost all of the players save for an extremely tiny number of hardcore players, the only way to reverse a sub decline is to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
    That is far more detrimental.

    If your argument is that it is unwise to cater to the top 1% because they are such a small percentage, than the same logic applies that it would be unwise to cater to the bottom 1%. Except worse because the other 99% of players are bored and have nothing to work for.

    WoW already does cater to the lowest common denominator anyway, and clearly its not working.

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  17. #77
    Pandaren Monk Agent Mercury's Avatar
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    Nothing to fix from your OP. Other topics on same thing.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt View Post
    While I would agree with you based on the # of posts to # of players, the more interesting thing to me would be to know the opinions of the millions of people that have quit over the past few years that never voiced their opinion.

    I think that it is flawed to just assume that the people posting their opinion are the only ones with that opinion. If all of the people that have quit over the past few years were still happy with the game, then why did they quit?

    If say the gas station that I go to stops providing the service or product that I go there for, I don't feel the need to voice my displeasure, I just stop going there.

    Those are just some things to keep in mind when claiming that a certain group are in the minority, when the actual information is unavailable.
    you are assuming that the game.. and the gas station are the problems. when nothing is wrong. as to the gas station maybe you started dating somebody that lives in a different direction from the gas station, causing you to change you usual stopping in order to get to their house quicker.. since you really want to be with your new partner faster. the gas station did everything it could to provide you with the best possible experience. it was YOU that changed.

    oh, and that same thing could be used as to why you quit playing.. maybe your new special somebody is more important then a video game? does that mean the game is still broken? clearly it must be.. since it didnt come with a free girlfriend/boyfriend to play it with.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Flatspriest View Post
    Why should they fix what isn't broken in the eyes of a majority of those who play the game? Only the "hardcore" players tend to think it is broken. Who do you think Blizzard will listen to more, the minority of "hardcore" players, or the vast majority of casual players?
    If "only the hardcore think its broken" than maybe the hardcore made up a larger percentage of the playerbase than people want to admit, considering close 4 million of them have deemed the game "broken" enough to unsubscribe.

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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    That is far more detrimental.

    If your argument is that it is unwise to cater to the top 1% because they are such a small percentage, than the same logic applies that it would be unwise to cater to the bottom 1%. Except worse because the other 99% of players are bored and have nothing to work for.

    WoW already does cater to the lowest common denominator anyway, and clearly its not working.
    The problem isnt having nothing to work for, but the artificial barriers placed in our way.
    What is the point of a ladder when those above you make it harder by removing multiple rungs.
    Pugs used to be way more flexible and understanding of time commitment, but now will not tolerate anyone who cannot commit to a strict schedule.
    Notice how that is pushing people into LFR.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    If "only the hardcore think its broken" than maybe the hardcore made up a larger percentage of the playerbase than people want to admit, considering close 4 million of them have deemed the game "broken" enough to unsubscribe.
    Blizzard said that the number who played wow and left was at least double the number of active subscribers at its peak.
    The numbers leaving means nothing without context, context which you simply want to ignore.
    What about the majority of those losses coming from the asian and other similar markets ?
    The problem is new ones arent coming in or staying around.

    There is the desire to do harder content as evidenced by normal and heroic modes having people raiding, but the barrier is not the difficulty for many people.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-07-07 at 03:10 AM.

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