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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by wigwam View Post
    But when you compare engineering to other professions, it doesn't match up when looking at total pros and cons because engineering can't make gold very well.
    I'll agree with you on that, Engineering lost a lot of that when ammo was removed from Hunters. But then if gold-making is your primary concern, you probably won't need Nitro Boosts, just roll something like a Rogue with a 100040 different sprints for running from the AH to the mailbox.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    I dont see why they should take you down to 10% hp, 50% would be reasonable and terrifying enough to warrent when you should use them.
    I personally feel it's a reasonable price to pay. Then again I'm a DK and rarely have to worry about it due to AMS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Also they need to fix boots+glider. I dont know why they changed it but its fucking annoying.
    You can still technically do it with a macro to cancel Nitro Boosts and activate Glider if you jump.
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Are you advocating giving them hands down the best raiding / pvp bonuses in game because they "can't make gold very well"?

    You are looking at this from a "you only" point of view and not taking overall game balance into account.
    I'm simply trying to figure out if this is just me or not. And regardless of whether we are talking about raid/pvp bonuses or gold making, a profession is a profession. A player with JC and BS isn't going to not use their professions to make gold, and only use them for the stat bonuses.

    If we really want to get technical, the more gold you have, the more dps/healing/survivability you have/put out in the long run. More gold= faster acquisition of crafted gear=more ilvl=more damage/healing output/higher avoidance/higher stamina.

    Everything is related to another in this sense.

  3. #23
    The Patient Relis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wigwam View Post
    The chance of having a nitro boost failure, specifically a rocket leak seems way too high.
    I really don't find it too bad.. RNG will ofc just be RNG but for example, it has NEVER failed on Lei Shen heroic for me at all on Helm of Command. Obviously I'm not fully reliant on it but I've always been waiting for the "oh shit" moment when I pop it on the transitions if needed, but it's not happened.
    That said, it has failed many times in a healer-less Hc Scenarios.

    In honesty though, I'd like it if it never failed.. maybe they'll make a fail-proof version in later patches / expacs which would be nice but I guess we'll see if that ever happens.
    Simply put, if you have had serious bad experiences with them, just don't consider them at all unless there is literally no other option but to try them.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by wigwam View Post
    If we really want to get technical, the more gold you have, the more dps/healing/survivability you have/put out in the long run. More gold= faster acquisition of crafted gear=more ilvl=more damage/healing output/higher avoidance/higher stamina.
    Professions aren't the only way of making gold. In addition, having Synapse Springs outweighs that in the long run. Not to mention you could always have another, more profitable profession on the side, or, you know, other characters.


    As for:
    Quote Originally Posted by wigwam View Post
    A player with JC and BS isn't going to not use their professions to make gold, and only use them for the stat bonuses.
    I very rarely make gold with my JC and I'm sure I'm not the only one in such a situation. Sure we're not a majority, but it's still a reality.


    With all this said, I find this a baseless argument, since Nitro Boosts isn't the primary bonus of Engineering. For all we, they could be planning to disable their use in instanced content completely. (as they already have in rated PvP)
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
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  5. #25
    Personally I did feel like Rocket Fuel Leak should have been more reliable, just on the basis we already have an overpowered DPS option in the frag belt. Not sure why Blizzard's let us have this amazing off the GCD dps increase on top of the glove enchant, but yeah. If you had a raid full of engineers it broke Sha of Fear Heroic P2.

    http://www.wowdb.com/spells/54793-frag-belt
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/54793-frag-belt

    It took an entire expansion but is indeed finally being nerfed, which means everyone's going to go back to using the nitro boost, which means a lot of people will start complaining about it lol. I'm fine with the failure rate, but maybe I'm biased since I'm a Mage and can Ice Block/Temporal Shield it. Make a Weak Aura for it and healthstone or use some other personal cd.

    Did anyone determine the fail rate in raids? Is it maybe like 20%?
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2013-07-07 at 07:38 PM.

  6. #26
    If Nitro Boosts never failed - or failed rarely - it would be virtually mandatory for raiders.
    Dragonslayer Hoddie - pretending to know what I'm doing!

  7. #27
    The Patient Relis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoddie View Post
    If Nitro Boosts never failed - or failed rarely - it would be virtually mandatory for raiders.
    That too is a fair point ^

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoddie View Post
    If Nitro Boosts never failed - or failed rarely - it would be virtually mandatory for raiders.
    We could say it 100 times and OP would still ignore this basic fact. Boosts are fine as is...any better and they would be required. The balanced bonus is Synapse Springs (which is still better than any other for most specs due to it being controllable and easily stacked with other CDs). As for the contention that it makes less G: Engineering isn't a profession...it's a lifestyle.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  9. #29
    I agree. The debuff is way to heavy, they could make it so it fails and cooldown increased to 5min or something, but almost dying to it is way overkill, imo.

    Fun fact: when I did last boss of brawlers guild r9, they ALWAYS worked to my surprise.

  10. #30
    The Patient Cantheal's Avatar
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    maybe I am just lucky but nitro does not fail all that often. Those saying it fails 50-75% of the time either are way over stating it or maybe should re-aply the tinker as that simply is not true (at least on either one of my Eng) Saying the fail over 50% of the time is just nonsense.
    Just because I don't care does'nt mean I don't understand

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    This basically is an argument against improving the Nitro Boost. If it was *improved* IT would be a total necessary thing in Raids. Heck even PVP.
    Yeah, the boost would be "mandatory" if it didn't blow up every so often.

  12. #32
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    If you're an Engineer for PvE purposes, and you're using Nitro Boost over Frag Belt, you're doing it wrong.

    The amount of people that reroll to Engineering for the FOTM DPS perk, and then get Nitro Boost instead, is astonishing.

  13. #33
    If they rarely or never failed, it would be WOTLK all over again where everyone and their brother rerolled engineering. I did it early on in the expansion after I had leveled LW, then by the end of the expansion, when someone would go "can I get a mailbox please" during a raid, about 10-12 would pop up.

    Eng was glorious during WOTLK, and by that I mean retardedly OP. Once had myself and another fellow eng riding in a demo during WG...that one demo never died.

  14. #34
    Well they really dont need a buff... i wonder that they still work at all.

    And they are great for heroic raiding. I use them on Lei Shen HC against Helm of Command and until today they only failed one time in something like 200 pulls. Generally i use them in many situations... if they fail its not like it's a instantkill. A Healthstone is usually enough to not really notice the HP loss, most of the time your healers would simply give you a heal and thats it. Even if they fail during times of high incoming DMG (but when would you use them during such phases?) a defensive CD is enough to compensate, of course its not the optimum but it happens basically never while they save my life and the lives of raidmembers on a regular basis. It even increases DPS as less moving = more DPS but thats only the smallest advantage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xploits View Post
    If you're an Engineer for PvE purposes, and you're using Nitro Boost over Frag Belt, you're doing it wrong.

    The amount of people that reroll to Engineering for the FOTM DPS perk, and then get Nitro Boost instead, is astonishing.
    If youre choosing a ~0,5% DPS increase over a powerful tool that increases your survivabilty and utility by a large amount then probably you are the person doing it wrong. And for many classes it's even a DPS gain to use nitro boosts if they can't do 100% DPS while moving.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    If youre choosing a ~0,5% DPS increase over a powerful tool that increases your survivabilty and utility by a large amount then probably you are the person doing it wrong. And for many classes it's even a DPS gain to use nitro boosts if they can't do 100% DPS while moving.
    1% DPS boost SINGLE target (closer to 2% for classes that have damage multiplier Masteries; Arcane Mages and Demonlogy Lock), higher the more mobs there are.

    Please enlighten me how a 3 min CD sprint, which has a high chance to backfire and kill you unless you waste a Defensive cooldown, is a survivability and utiliy increase? I'm very curious.

  16. #36
    Blademaster
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    TLDR; Nitro boost is something you can use as a "risky" pad mechanism on certain bosses & as well as goblin glider, it can be useful as on certain occasions. A good example would be an "Oh fuck" button when getting Helm of Command and standing too far back on Lei Shen

    Don't treat it as a "main perk" for engineers though. We have Synapse Springs which is already better than any other proffesions to most DPS classes (atleast dunno about tank and healers) because CD stacking is powerful for every class.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wigwam View Post
    If I didn't have nitro boost to get out of the pool in a flash, I'd have to stop dpsing for a few seconds which hurts my dps in order to survive.
    aka you'd have to realize that raiding is more than your place on recount and that your meter-padding is insignificant to ensuring that you stay alive to contribute to the group? Nitro Boosts are not a profession perk, they are a fun item with the option that you can use to your advantage if you want, but know you are risking your survivability by using it.

    Take away that and then the profession becomes mandatory and all other professions have to receive compensation to compete.

  18. #38
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Nah, the malfunctions are fine as is. Eng would actually be more interesting if the glider also had a malfunction.
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  19. #39
    I agree that the "fun" engineering item should backfire, but the backfire should be "fun" as well. For example, with intro boosts, them launching you up into the air is totally fine. They should remove the backfire that damages you though, or at least reduce it to 50% HP or something reasonable. The thing is, simply getting hurt with a dot isn't "fun." When I think of engineering in WoW, especially goblin, I think of crazy crap happening. Not a DoT.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaze950 View Post
    I agree that the "fun" engineering item should backfire, but the backfire should be "fun" as well. For example, with intro boosts, them launching you up into the air is totally fine. They should remove the backfire that damages you though, or at least reduce it to 50% HP or something reasonable. The thing is, simply getting hurt with a dot isn't "fun." When I think of engineering in WoW, especially goblin, I think of crazy crap happening. Not a DoT.
    If i remember right the air boost effect used to be able to happen in raid instances but people complained/suggested an alternative so rocket fuel leak was introduced. The idea is you aren't taken out of the fight (and also potentially creating opportunities for exploits), but there is a strong penalty. If you are careful and don't overuse it or use it during times of high raid damage then you can either pop some CDs/and or call for healer love, but the small risk is always there. I could be wrong, but that's how I remember the evolution of the backfire.
    "Brevity is...wit"

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