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  1. #1

    Why Does Everyone Think Warlocks are OP?

    TL: DR- Title

    Whenever a non-warlock makes a "X CLASSES ARE OP WAAAAH" thread, they point out two classes as OP in regards to PvP: Hunters and Warlocks. I honestly don't see warlocks as OP in a PvP setting. Bursty as hell, sure, but an easy shutdown. Demo can burst with the best of them right now, but really, the survivability isn't where Destro's is (supposed to be). Warlocks as a whole don't have crazy selfheals outside of the instant full health macro and Destro's ember tap (yeah... I think I get 20k out of ember tap now). The damage is strong, but it's about on par with most other ranged and we have no where NEAR the selfheals of an ele shaman or boomkin or shadow priest and even a mage sometimes.

    Now, for PvE... Whenever I'm not top DPS, people legitimately say to me in all seriousness "Why are you not topping DPS? You're a warlock". Never mind the fact that the 4 fire mages are ahead of me and the shadow priest who had all the procs and 4 consistent targets for dot fodder. Look at the raidbots. Our numbers are top third at best with Demo coming out on top (as supposedly the 2nd best overall DPS), but they're middle of the pack on fights that aren't specifically built to make them look good. Case in point. Ji-kun. Fight has a damage buff? AoE? Single target? Wouldn't a OP DPS love this fight? Afflic is the best on this fight and is lagging around 70k behind fire and assassination. Demo is a full 100k behind assassination. However, most raiders expect a warlock (particularly demo) to be neck and neck with the fire mages and assassination rogues.

    Is it just people not realizing that they "fixed" the problems with warlocks being OP from earlier this expansion or do they honestly have a reason other than "I remember a warlock a few months ago..."?

  2. #2
    Because they are......they offer alot to any raid, I mean just look at how many fights you can essentially "cheese" with the gateways? It's not just that, or the fact they give nice health stones, they also do great dps on most fights and have amazing survivability.........

    It's not just their DPS that makes them "OP" its everything added together........

  3. #3
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    PVE: Top tier damage, extraordinary utility, three very distinct playstyles and specs, 100% mobile DPS at bare minimum cost (a slight snare).

    PVP: For a time, incredible burst in 2/3 specs. 100% mobile DPS, high amounts of crowd control, even higher utility. Top tier damage.

    Overall, has gotten more dev time and love than any other class this expansion (maaaassive overhaul at the outset to give them their three hugely distinct playstyles-- no other pure has that much difference. Also, green fire)


    So yeah, they're kinda pretty damn OP.

    Edit: It's a "Whole package" deal. They might not be the highest DPS in the game, but they're not far off and they bring a huuuuuuuuge amount of utility (personal and otherwise) to compensate. Gateways, cookies, soulstones (+battlerez), stam/spellpower, pet utility (silence, stun, etc), personal portals and mobility, control, an AOE stun... Just so much stuff.
    Last edited by ViridianWRA; 2013-07-07 at 09:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Warlocks aren't OP, but they definatly have an edge on a lot of fights this tier. Multidotting with crit doom, SB cleaving, endless embers on a lot of fights, lots of on demand AoE burst, damage modifier extending with pandemic etc etc... As for self heals, we really can't complain about survuvability, soul leech is better than any other dps self heals atm.

    We're not OP, but it isn't hard for us to be in the top half of the meters in this tier.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    chaos bolt ignores resilience.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by niki View Post
    chaos bolt ignores resilience.
    Nope, it used to double dip resilience in 5.2. So they "fixed it" with stealth nerfing it by 25% ==> around 33% effective nerf which is way to much in my opinion. Most viable spec is affliction and its not OP in its current state altough its very strong with lsd2 but thats only because shammy is fking rediculous right now and druid is probably the best healer for casters atm.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    PVE: Top tier damage, extraordinary utility, three very distinct playstyles and specs, 100% mobile DPS at bare minimum cost (a slight snare).

    PVP: For a time, incredible burst in 2/3 specs. 100% mobile DPS, high amounts of crowd control, even higher utility. Top tier damage.

    Overall, has gotten more dev time and love than any other class this expansion (maaaassive overhaul at the outset to give them their three hugely distinct playstyles-- no other pure has that much difference. Also, green fire)


    So yeah, they're kinda pretty damn OP.
    In PvE, beside demo being catered to on every. single. fight, we have afflic with a specscore (again, raidbots) in the low-mid 80s then Destro is in the giant pile of mediocrity around 77. No one complains about fire mages or arcane mages being OP (both are near the top on almost every fight). Also, that "bare minimum" can be pretty brutal on some fights (Jin'rokh, Tortos, Megaera, Ji-kun, Lei Shen).

    In PvP, 2 out of 3? I'll give demo burst is strong and kiiinda on the OP side of things, but afflic burst sucks if you fight anyone with half a brain (ONE SCHOOL TO RULE THEM ALL) and yeaaaah fire those 2.5 sec 100ks off 4 times during DS. I don't even know which other spec you were talking about.

    Getting attention =/= OP
    Hunters get no attention but are obviously OP, while in Cata, shamans got a fair amount of attention and were dogshit.

  9. #9
    They really need to give lock cookies to an additional class. They are practically essential.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    They really need to give lock cookies to an additional class. They are practically essential.
    So you carry one. I think a 10 man can get a warlock pretty easily.

    It's not like there's 30 classes you have to choose from. There's only 11 classes for (minimum) 10 spots, of which you probably have 6 DPS

  11. #11
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drikkink View Post
    TL: DR- Title
    Every single one of the 9 million subs does? That so?

    Sorry..I really can't help jumping on those pathetically generalizing threads.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  12. #12
    Also, exclusive raid utility = OP now? Damn, I guess vanilla paladins were SUPER OP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Every single one of the 9 million subs does? That so?

    Sorry..I really can't help jumping on those pathetically generalizing threads.
    So I should ramble on in my title. "Why do these random people on the pvp forums that keep popping up every other day whine about warlocks being as OP as hunters?"

  13. #13
    Mechagnome
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    My raid would be straight fucked on Ji-kun, Qon, and Lei Shen without our warlock. Gateway, healthstones, battle rez, 140k+ dps on all encounters at a ~520 ilvl with extreme on demand single and multi target burst. On top of that, they take the LEAST damage of every raiding class I've seen, the extreme being on Ji-kun where skada and recount showed our warlock at only 1220 damage taken from a single tick of Quills, everything else in the whole fight was entirely absorbed.

    Warlocks were re-designed and blizz did an extremely good job with them this expansion. Throw in the solo questline for Green fire reminiscent with class quests from Classic and I can't blame people for being jealous. I'm totally rolling a warlock come next patch just to give it a go.
    Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"

  14. #14
    The Patient Kuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    Warlocks aren't OP, but they definatly have an edge on a lot of fights this tier. Multidotting with crit doom, SB cleaving, endless embers on a lot of fights, lots of on demand AoE burst, damage modifier extending with pandemic etc etc... As for self heals, we really can't complain about survuvability, soul leech is better than any other dps self heals atm.

    We're not OP, but it isn't hard for us to be in the top half of the meters in this tier.
    You don't have to call it OP if you don't like the term but the facts remains others and even you stated above.
    Let's just say you should be really happy how your class turned out to be in this expansion.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk
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    Can't speak to PvE much (barely raided at all this xpac, and usually a pretty casual raider as PVE isn't really my cup of tea) but...
    In arena, locks are fine. Easy to shut down when there are few targets and easy to train for most melee.
    In RBG's - Afflic and Destro are both insane. Most RBG's(at least up to 1800, just started RBGing again) are running 2-3 locks if they can. Just incredible split damage and aoe CC (Howl/Shadowfury, aoe conflag snare depending)

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    They really need to give lock cookies to an additional class. They are practically essential.
    They could give shaman Dirtballs, eat one and get an earth shield.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    PVE: Top tier damage, extraordinary utility, three very distinct playstyles and specs, 100% mobile DPS at bare minimum cost (a slight snare).

    PVP: For a time, incredible burst in 2/3 specs. 100% mobile DPS, high amounts of crowd control, even higher utility. Top tier damage.

    Overall, has gotten more dev time and love than any other class this expansion (maaaassive overhaul at the outset to give them their three hugely distinct playstyles-- no other pure has that much difference. Also, green fire)


    So yeah, they're kinda pretty damn OP.

    Edit: It's a "Whole package" deal. They might not be the highest DPS in the game, but they're not far off and they bring a huuuuuuuuge amount of utility (personal and otherwise) to compensate. Gateways, cookies, soulstones (+battlerez), stam/spellpower, pet utility (silence, stun, etc), personal portals and mobility, control, an AOE stun... Just so much stuff.
    Much of this is getting changed in 5.4. Survivability is getting hit hard. Soul Leech getting capped at 15% of your total health compared to what it is on live is a massive difference. Fel Armor (which I forget about anymore) is also getting nerfed. KJC fillers are the only abilities that can be used on the move. A big nerf compared to current. And considering that takes execute out for demo and afflic, it's much more bland of a talent.

    I admit that they do need nerfed. Blizzard has absolutely no concept of moderation. Rogues and Warlocks, and sometimes Shaman were always battling each other for the least played classes. But Blizz goes balls out for making warlocks "cool and OP" for MoP. They gave locks a class quest. Green Fire. Huge changes to the class. Most changes to the class. So much that they almost seemed to ignore other classes. So I hope that locks get the shit nerfed out of them, and I hope that the next expac, Blizzard puts another class in their seat for huge changes and class quests and such.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuul View Post
    You don't have to call it OP if you don't like the term but the facts remains others and even you stated above.
    Let's just say you should be really happy how your class turned out to be in this expansion.
    I'm not happy at all with it. I would rather have to really struggle to be in the middle of the charts than roll my face on the keyboard and top the charts. And I always liked Warlocks being underpopulated. Now, every other player is a lock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Much of this is getting changed in 5.4. Survivability is getting hit hard. Soul Leech getting capped at 15% of your total health compared to what it is on live is a massive difference. Fel Armor (which I forget about anymore) is also getting nerfed. KJC fillers are the only abilities that can be used on the move. A big nerf compared to current. And considering that takes execute out for demo and afflic, it's much more bland of a talent.

    I admit that they do need nerfed. Blizzard has absolutely no concept of moderation. Rogues and Warlocks, and sometimes Shaman were always battling each other for the least played classes. But Blizz goes balls out for making warlocks "cool and OP" for MoP. They gave locks a class quest. Green Fire. Huge changes to the class. Most changes to the class. So much that they almost seemed to ignore other classes. So I hope that locks get the shit nerfed out of them, and I hope that the next expac, Blizzard puts another class in their seat for huge changes and class quests and such.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I'm not happy at all with it. I would rather have to really struggle to be in the middle of the charts than roll my face on the keyboard and top the charts. And I always liked Warlocks being underpopulated. Now, every other player is a lock.
    Huge changes =/= OP

    No, they do not need to get nerfed to shit. It would only mean a new set of buffs, and make people cry again.
    I could go on about how our survival, dmg and utility isint op compared to other classes, in pvp atleast, but i cant be arsed since i dont see a point.
    However take a look at ele shamans lava burst and dest locks chaos bolt. For one example.
    People are gonna keep screaming "OP WARLOCKZZZ" to the end of days

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Kanariya's Avatar
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    Because we have Fear.

  20. #20
    well, thing is, if locks need nerfing, other classes need nerfing too, classes like mages would need those nerfs just as much as locks would. also it is funny that there is so much whining about locks this patch, when almost every single encounter are tailor made for lock's strength, no wonder they will do well. just think about it, how many encounters have any sort of multitarget/cleaving? all of them, so ofc locks will be strong, a lot of ppl tend to just look at numbers, and see 1 class do bigger numbers than other classes but they fail to take the encounter itself into account.

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