1. #1

    Feral 5.4 CC changes.

    Is it just me or does the whole "cannot use cyclone with pred swiftness/have to cast it outside of form" sort of thing just not seem totally fair. If you look at the whole thing it doesn't really make to much sense unless you are planning on giving feral another CC that is possible to be dispelled. Cyclone is very important for 3v3s, expecially to be viable to play certain comps. Sure you could just learn to juke players and just cast it every now and then. But I'm playing a MELEE class not a caster. If I wanted to cast I would have rolled a boomkin. It also doesn't help that your form reduces dmg taken. Feral out of cat form is never good. You take a LOT more dmg. If people want to, the second you get out of cat form they could hard swap, stun then just kill you right then and there all because you were trying to get a kill and no one had any other good CC for the healer. How is it suppose to help if you can never get a kill cause the healers just healing away. I agree completely feral needed a CC nerf. I think the 20 seconds on it was a bit to much to be honest. But it didn't make us completely un-viable for a lot of comps. Why not make it 16 seconds. You still have time to set things up and it's not impossible. Also wont be dead the second you leave cat form, or you could even make it so its castable in cat form if you don't want to make so it can be used with pred swiftness. Don't really see the logic behind this. Sure you guys took off the 20 second cooldown. But really? Was that all really necessary?

  2. #2
    Would you prefer they take away your ability to shape shift out of roots again? So that you can actually be stoppable instead of having 100% pressure and not being able to get sheeped,nova,hex. Name another melee dps that can avoid all 3 of those besides using Cloak of Shadows on a rogue.

    KThx. Feral is fine.

  3. #3
    1. Tell me where it says that cat form reduced damage taken? You take extra healing with a glyph that most people use, but that is it.

    2. Cyclone is currently hard-castable in form with predatory swiftness on the ptr, and doesn't consume the buff

  4. #4
    Yes I would rather that it be like shape shifting out of slows instead of the roots like it was before. At least my class would not be un-viable for pretty much almost every single 3s comp. Also we can't cyclone when we're silenced. Also I don't see how you find feral fine after that. Do you realize the amount of interupts there are and how obvious it is of a druid casting out of cat form? Everyone will train a feral. Why the hell not? You leave cat form they save a stun they cc your healer stun you and you're dead..do you realize how short the range of cyclone is? How easyily avoidable that is. Kicking, typhooning, silencing..theres a huge list of things. But you find it okay? You do realize that feral is only really viable for 3 comps as is right now? But yet you think ferals are going to be okay? Sure if you're a PvE hero.

    - - - Updated - - -

    To your first question, yes it does reduce the dmg taken. Kitty form increases your agil so it increases your armor and dodge, unless they changed that from the last time I looked which wasn't that long ago. Also I am not playing on PTR, I am just going off what it says and how it will be when it comes out unless changed.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by kweenbee View Post
    To your first question, yes it does reduce the dmg taken. Kitty form increases your agil so it increases your armor and dodge, unless they changed that from the last time I looked which wasn't that long ago. Also I am not playing on PTR, I am just going off what it says and how it will be when it comes out unless changed.
    IIRC yes they did change it, agi no longer provides armor and the dodge gain is very very miniscule now, in passive defenses like this cat form is no better than caster form aside from the mandatory +20 healing glyph requiring it.

    2. Cyclone is currently hard-castable in form with predatory swiftness on the ptr, and doesn't consume the buff
    I'm sure that would be awesome if ps was longer than 8 seconds or not dispelled instantly or forced into being consumed asap anyways. Now it's just yet another awkward and unnecessary roadblock making feral as clunky to play as possible, they love that shit.
    Last edited by Kojo; 2013-07-06 at 07:11 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo View Post
    IIRC yes they did change it, agi no longer provides armor and the dodge gain is very very miniscule now, in passive defenses like this cat form is no better than caster form aside from the mandatory +20 healing glyph requiring it. You're really a paper bag regardless of form these days.
    Ah alrighty, didn't notice. Mmm oh well, but yea and we wont be able to at least cyclone the dps off of us. Against a caster comp basically what will happen is they will just run out of range of cyclone. Melee comps will most likely just train the druid. I mean why the hell not? You're dead either way. If you're forcing dmg on me then the people I'm playing with will have to waste cc to try and get them off me.....we wont ever get a kill cause feral wont have enough cc. Doesn't make to much sense as to what they are doing ATM. I feel like they stuck spikes on the nerf bat and basically bashed ferals into the ground.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kweenbee View Post
    Ah alrighty, didn't notice. Mmm oh well, but yea and we wont be able to at least cyclone the dps off of us. Against a caster comp basically what will happen is they will just run out of range of cyclone. Melee comps will most likely just train the druid. I mean why the hell not? You're dead either way. If you're forcing dmg on me then the people I'm playing with will have to waste cc to try and get them off me.....we wont ever get a kill cause feral wont have enough cc. Doesn't make to much sense as to what they are doing ATM. I feel like they stuck spikes on the nerf bat and basically bashed ferals into the ground.
    ...honestly? I've had multiple fights where I've been outnumbered and not NEEDED cyclone to kill 2 or 3 enemies. with the cooldown they've made feral have for cyclone anyway it's not our most viable CC where roots or stuns are (cyclone one person and watch as they're dispelled instantly and you can't do it again for 20 seconds) if you haven't adapted to not needing it for every fight in this last patch I'm not sure you'll survive the next one but if you have that change is really nothing, just another spell you'll have to hard cast out of cat form or need a bit of help from your team to make up for...but that's what teams are for...they help each other......or they die and assign blame
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    ...honestly? I've had multiple fights where I've been outnumbered and not NEEDED cyclone to kill 2 or 3 enemies. with the cooldown they've made feral have for cyclone anyway it's not our most viable CC where roots or stuns are (cyclone one person and watch as they're dispelled instantly and you can't do it again for 20 seconds) if you haven't adapted to not needing it for every fight in this last patch I'm not sure you'll survive the next one but if you have that change is really nothing, just another spell you'll have to hard cast out of cat form or need a bit of help from your team to make up for...but that's what teams are for...they help each other......or they die and assign blame
    First off, you do realize I'm talking about 3's right? Not trying to be a smart allick or anything. Just double checking. Without that extra cc I can't tell you how many games we could have lost without that cyclone. That's playing jungle cleave too. Cyclone is the most important CC a feral has by FAR. It may have a 20sec CD right now but if you time it right with your team, it works out. I agree that the ferals did need a nerf, but we also did not need the dmg buff to svg roar. That was unnecessary PvP wise, not sure about PvE. I would rather them go back to making it so we can only shift out of slows then shifting out of roots. That would make us at least viable for arenas.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kweenbee View Post
    I agree that the ferals did need a nerf, but we also did not need the dmg buff to svg roar. That was unnecessary PvP wise, not sure about PvE.
    In PvE it's questionable if the damage buff was even sufficient. I'd say after the buff we are about right if the fight doesn't have a mechanic that is unfavorable. I have no idea if that will scale with 5.4. It's been my opinion that Blizzard has kept Feral DPS near the bottom because of PvP for 3 years now. I'm all for the PvP Ferals having a fair shake but the miniscule amount of Feral raiders left deserve their turn as well.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kweenbee View Post
    First off, you do realize I'm talking about 3's right? Not trying to be a smart allick or anything. Just double checking. Without that extra cc I can't tell you how many games we could have lost without that cyclone. That's playing jungle cleave too. Cyclone is the most important CC a feral has by FAR. It may have a 20sec CD right now but if you time it right with your team, it works out. I agree that the ferals did need a nerf, but we also did not need the dmg buff to svg roar. That was unnecessary PvP wise, not sure about PvE. I would rather them go back to making it so we can only shift out of slows then shifting out of roots. That would make us at least viable for arenas.
    so you're saying heavily nerf our mobility, which has already been nerfed multiple times this expansion after we finally got back something blizzard has actively admitted is a major mechanic of our class and spec....so you have one CC that's faster, instead of just maybe timing the hard cast like everyone else has to and accepting this one nerf so they don't take away the things that make our class unique. and from PVE perspective they honestly should've done MORE buffs, top rated druid DPS is pretty much all balance by a mile, we actually perform fairly badly in comparison to quite a few others due to them limiting us so that our burst isn't out of control when we blow all cooldowns in PVP (I play both and like both but seriously wish they would just buff our abilities so we don't need savage roar, make it back into an attack speed ability, and maybe limit predator's swiftness to heals and non cyclone).
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  11. #11
    So in 5.4, pvp ferals will be dead more or less?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    ([B]cyclone one person and watch as they're dispelled instantly)
    This never happens.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by wick3d View Post
    So in 5.4, pvp ferals will be dead more or less?
    You people amaze me. You realize you're in an arena with 2 other people, yes? Add a hunter to a ferals mobility and CC and you have a disgustingly OP comp. Stop looking at just one class, look at your class WITH other classes.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    so you're saying heavily nerf our mobility, which has already been nerfed multiple times this expansion after we finally got back something blizzard has actively admitted is a major mechanic of our class and spec....so you have one CC that's faster, instead of just maybe timing the hard cast like everyone else has to and accepting this one nerf so they don't take away the things that make our class unique. and from PVE perspective they honestly should've done MORE buffs, top rated druid DPS is pretty much all balance by a mile, we actually perform fairly badly in comparison to quite a few others due to them limiting us so that our burst isn't out of control when we blow all cooldowns in PVP (I play both and like both but seriously wish they would just buff our abilities so we don't need savage roar, make it back into an attack speed ability, and maybe limit predator's swiftness to heals and non cyclone).
    It wouldn't heavily nerf our mobility, unless you're talking about just doing bgs...I mean if you are in a 3's, your healer has dispells. I mean sure you wont be as mobile but its worked in the past. Also the only problem that I have with it is the fact that cyclones range isn't long enough to get a spell caster that is just running out of range the entire time. It doesn't help that ferals will get trained by melee comps because of the fact that they don't want them to be able to cast cyclone. Which BTW if you have to sit there and keep trying to cyclone something you're not gonna get the dps out that you need to do and then it wont matter if you finally got that cyclone on the healer because of the fact that the person you were trying to kill is pretty much almost at full HP anyway. Also, who will want to risk their whole arena rating to play with a feral when they could play with a different more better person like a ret. I mean I wouldn't want to risk my rating or win, loss because of a feral that doesn't have enough cc.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akoroth View Post
    You people amaze me. You realize you're in an arena with 2 other people, yes? Add a hunter to a ferals mobility and CC and you have a disgustingly OP comp. Stop looking at just one class, look at your class WITH other classes.
    Next patch hunters will be nerfed aswell as ferals are. No second DR trapping or double silencing (and for BM no longer interrupts). This would leave hunters to roll MM which provides far less constant pressure than BM and far less burst. Next patch hunter/feral would be a lot harder to play than current patch, although I reckon hunters would rather play with let's say.. a paladin next patch due to Turn Evil becoming a fear.

  16. #16
    Roar/Bash into Cyclone, whats the problem? Not like feral is the first class to need to chain 2 CCs together to be able to land it.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kweenbee View Post
    To your first question, yes it does reduce the dmg taken. Kitty form increases your agil so it increases your armor and dodge, unless they changed that from the last time I looked which wasn't that long ago. Also I am not playing on PTR, I am just going off what it says and how it will be when it comes out unless changed.
    No, Cat form no longer increases Agility. Agility hasn't increased Armor since Wrath of the Lich King, and the amount of Dodge Agility gives is just pathetic compared to dodge rating itself.

    The only way Cat Form increases survivability is by the 20% healing recieved glyph, no other way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In terms of CC changing, trading in instant-cyclone for no-CD cyclone is a preferable change imo. Cyclone is very easy/simple to cast uninterupted if you know what you are doing.

    The BIG change irking me is FoN rooting targets instead of stunning them. It's not like ferals need another root damnit, might actually take something besides Mass Entanglement in PvP now.. Missed being able to get 3 second stuns on 3 different targets within 1 GCD. Ah, well, guess I'll go back to Incarnation.

    Let me see... Mass Entanglement has a buff - roots unlimited targets, helpful against hunter/melee comps for countering Stampede "burst". But yea, I'm ok with Cyclone being castable- L2Juke/chain CC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kweenbee View Post
    First off, you do realize I'm talking about 3's right? Not trying to be a smart allick or anything. Just double checking. Without that extra cc I can't tell you how many games we could have lost without that cyclone. That's playing jungle cleave too. Cyclone is the most important CC a feral has by FAR. It may have a 20sec CD right now but if you time it right with your team, it works out. I agree that the ferals did need a nerf, but we also did not need the dmg buff to svg roar. That was unnecessary PvP wise, not sure about PvE. I would rather them go back to making it so we can only shift out of slows then shifting out of roots. That would make us at least viable for arenas.

    Yea... NO. BLizz removing the ability to shift out of roots was the WORST thing they have EVER done to Ferals in the entire history of the game. I've been used to cast-time Cyclone since TBC, and use it OFTEN in arenas when I need PS for extra healing to my partner. Failure to hard-cast Cyclone is a L2Play problem, and a problem that you can just learn to deal with, or flunk out. The inability to remove roots from self will be a HUGE nerf to ferals, being able to counter virtual ANY anti-melee CC is the best thing about PvP as a druid that there is!
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