1. #1

    Suggestion for World PVP zones

    So, I recently changed my opinion on World PvP when I actually went out and pvped in the world. Ghostcrawler's response to world pvp was simply bring your friends, you cannot balance it. Well I think you can, to an extent. Blizzard has the capability of scaling your gear down anytime you enter an Instanced battleground. They can also do the same in Dungeons and Challenge Modes are evidence of this. If they can do it in those areas of the game, then they can do it in others. In Patch. 5.3 they narrowed the pvp gear gap in instanced pvp but widened the gear gap in world pvp. So, any pvp zone like Tol Barad, Wintergrasp, Halaa, Hellfire Citadel Towers and every pvp zone in game, Raid gear will always beat people in pvp gear because there's a huge gap. If they allowed pvpers to use conquest to upgrade their gear that might alleviate the issue abit but I really believe they should simply introduce item level scaling.
    I heard talk from Blizzard they're considering making War campaigns that would include Alterac Valley, Isle of Conquest, Tol Barad and Wintergrasp all into a separate queue from other battlegrounds. If they go ahead and do this, I'd imagine item scaling would work in them. I just think they should implement their scaling to all flagged pvp zones in the world, so pvp can be about Skill and not about gear.

  2. #2
    High Overlord KennyBoi3's Avatar
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    That would an answer to WvW for WoW. Large scale epic battles? Count me in!

  3. #3
    Just my 2 pence ( cents ) worth on gear scaling and World PvP

    Base Resi should return to 40 / 45% with every PvP 4 piece giving a 25 /20% bonus.

    PvE gear / players without 65% Resi should have it scaled to 65% in instanced PvP.

    That way the advantage of high i level PvE gear in world PvP is negated, and there is a proper advantage to having ground out the HP / CP to get PvP gear. Which in my opinion ( for what it's worth ) gives a reason to have PvP Gear outside of instanced PvP.

  4. #4
    if you want world pvp go to the dark portal, so many 90's there ganking all day so you can have your war, oh and if they change so that gear scale ppl will complain that there is no reason to pvp. heck I dont pvp much but even I feel that there should be something to work for

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gixer66 View Post
    Just my 2 pence ( cents ) worth on gear scaling and World PvP

    Base Resi should return to 40 / 45% with every PvP 4 piece giving a 25 /20% bonus.

    PvE gear / players without 65% Resi should have it scaled to 65% in instanced PvP.

    That way the advantage of high i level PvE gear in world PvP is negated, and there is a proper advantage to having ground out the HP / CP to get PvP gear. Which in my opinion ( for what it's worth ) gives a reason to have PvP Gear outside of instanced PvP.
    Or bring back Item Upgrades for pvp.

    Did they even give a reason for removing them? If not i wouldn't be surprised, since they do alot of stuff without warning or notice. (e.g. Warlock chaos bolt nerf)

  6. #6
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KennyBoi3 View Post
    That would an answer to WvW for WoW. Large scale epic battles? Count me in!
    Not to rain in on the parade but large scale battles are horrible in any MMO. If you play any melee you're basically cannon fodder. Even if you're a Rogue, its just sit around in stealth and do nothing. The only real people who probably have fun are healers and any "nuke them" caster.

    Nice pics in your signature though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by gixer66 View Post
    Just my 2 pence ( cents ) worth on gear scaling and World PvP

    Base Resi should return to 40 / 45% with every PvP 4 piece giving a 25 /20% bonus.

    PvE gear / players without 65% Resi should have it scaled to 65% in instanced PvP.

    That way the advantage of high i level PvE gear in world PvP is negated, and there is a proper advantage to having ground out the HP / CP to get PvP gear. Which in my opinion ( for what it's worth ) gives a reason to have PvP Gear outside of instanced PvP.
    This is the simplest and most elegant solution. Obviously that means it won't happen.

  8. #8
    The Patient Krixooks's Avatar
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    The topic is a bit misleading...

    Gear scaling itself is a slippery slope, how does one decide which areas need scaling and which don't?
    If you scale certain areas (BGs etc) other areas are left out (WPvP) and it creates problems.
    If you scale ALL areas it begins to put the point of gear itself into question.

    Personally I would just never scale gear, if it lets heroic raiders blaze through challenge modes that's fine by me.
    What's irritating to me is PvE gear coming back into PvP because of bad scaling decisions.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Krixooks View Post
    The topic is a bit misleading...

    Gear scaling itself is a slippery slope, how does one decide which areas need scaling and which don't?
    If you scale certain areas (BGs etc) other areas are left out (WPvP) and it creates problems.
    If you scale ALL areas it begins to put the point of gear itself into question.

    Personally I would just never scale gear, if it lets heroic raiders blaze through challenge modes that's fine by me.
    What's irritating to me is PvE gear coming back into PvP because of bad scaling decisions.
    But then what's the answer? If they don't do a scaling in instanced pvp, where they supposedly balance PVP around, you're going to the pvp gear giving full resilience model if you ditch the current model. Back to square 1.

    If everyone had a high base resilience outside of instanced pvp they don't get blown up as fast. Raiders will have higher ilvls to do more damage, have more hp etc. People in pvp gear getting an added 20% resil will have more survivability, but won't be doing obscene damage - which should be somewhat offset with the raider having higher HP, 45% resil and the nerfed version of pvp power. World pvp is suddenly more balanced again and more dependent on skill than ever before.

    Instanced pvp will have resil at 65% for everyone, but because of ilvl caps, raiders won't be doing more damage. PVPers will, and justly so.

    Instanced pve will have no ilvl cap. Since pvp gear is only marginally useful here (clearing LFR, MAYBE some pieces used in normals) there isn't an issue anyway.

  10. #10
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    One simple word:

    Wintergrasp.

    Would just need to change the setting to accommodate whatever region you're in. It's what they should have done in tol barad, and it's something they should try and emulate and surpass in scale.

    You're not going to get people doing world PvP for the hell of it. Don't let people fool you into thinking "flying mounts in WotLK killed that" (they never want to admit those came about in BC, or do but try and rationalize it somehow...) the advent of world PvP largely died with battlegrounds. Wintergrasp was a great resurgence in the form of world PvP; vehicles allowed even the scrubiest of players to contribute to the battle if they knew what they were doing.

    So the question becomes "how does one make it worthwhile?" Well, tying it to a raid is a good way to at least keep people interested. A good way to up the ante would be to allow successive wins to allow greater numbers of honor/valor points. For good measure, you can toss in additional objectives like the Outland PvP points that can be individually contested during the matches, and will allow for control of certain features (daily quest areas, perhaps) after the main battle has ended, giving the losing side the incentive to stick around.

    Tie in some emblem system and weekly quests, with rewards that are competitive (and STAY that way,) and you'll have large scale battles. And when the mobs of people clashing together get big enough, with vehicles, summonable NPCs, and the like thrown into the mix, individual ilevels become much less important.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-07-18 at 06:30 AM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post

    You're not going to get people doing world PvP for the hell of it. Don't let people fool you into thinking "flying mounts in WotLK killed that" (they never want to admit those came about in BC, or do but try and rationalize it somehow...) the advent of world PvP largely died with battlegrounds. Wintergrasp was a great resurgence in the form of world PvP; vehicles allowed even the scrubiest of players to contribute to the battle if they knew what they were doing.
    You make some interesting points, but i disagree with a few things in this section i quoted. It largely depends on servers as to how involved the community is in WPvP. Granted there aren't many servers like that, but the ones that are there are extremely fun. I do agree that it wasn't JUST flying mounts that diminished WPvP, though it did have a part to play. Battlegrounds also did have a part to play, but not a huge part.

    Wintergrasp was an excellent idea. There were a few balance issues they needed to iron out, but the idea was great. Funny enough Tol Barad was a lot worse in terms of implementation and balance. You'd think they would have learned something from Wintergrasp.

    Overall, yes. There would need to be some WPvP zone incentives. More Halaa like zones (without having rewards being too powerful to be mandatory) as well as instanced zones like Wintergrasp/Tol Barad.

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that someone had the idea of a Bounty system. The idea would need to be refined but it could be interesting. Kill X number of level 90 players in Y zone. Not as a daily, but maybe a weekly quest. It could reward, honor or conquest or maybe something more fun that could actually LEAD to attacks on a city.

    What if there were quests that involve PVP, bounty hunting etc. that actually gave you some sort of a siege engine like thing to help attack a capital city. Again, idea would need to be refined/balanced, but i'm thinking some sort of progression where two/three friends group and do a pvp quest in a pvp zone.

    Successful completion of said quest leads to maybe some relative increase in power (say for e.g. only against guards in a city (not vendors)). They could have an increased chance of success in raiding a city.

    The War Bear achievement from killing leaders was a great idea. I think anything to promote more WPvP and attacks on cities to make it actually feel like we're at WAR would be great. While people complain about NPC deaths and such, they would have high respawn rates AND if you're on a PVP server: SUCK IT UP!
    Last edited by gestapo; 2013-07-18 at 08:08 AM. Reason: Added MOAR dots

  12. #12
    They really need to bring back Wintergrasp, scaling in Wintergrasp is probably a good idea because it's a fight to secure a raid instance therefore losing it because you have a bunch of low geared players kinda sucks/sucked. Wintergrasp was probably one of the most fun experiences I've ever had in WoW.
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  13. #13
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    You make some interesting points, but i disagree with a few things in this section i quoted. It largely depends on servers as to how involved the community is in WPvP. Granted there aren't many servers like that, but the ones that are there are extremely fun. I do agree that it wasn't JUST flying mounts that diminished WPvP, though it did have a part to play. Battlegrounds also did have a part to play, but not a huge part.
    Well, Battlegrounds killed massive world PvP that was for "the lulz."

    Wintergrasp was an excellent idea. There were a few balance issues they needed to iron out, but the idea was great. Funny enough Tol Barad was a lot worse in terms of implementation and balance. You'd think they would have learned something from Wintergrasp.

    Overall, yes. There would need to be some WPvP zone incentives. More Halaa like zones (without having rewards being too powerful to be mandatory) as well as instanced zones like Wintergrasp/Tol Barad.
    I'm saying they should put things like Halaa (or the hellfire/bonewastes towers) IN the PvP zones, to be contested for separately during the matches. So even if you lost the match, you might still hold a certain point that allows you access to certain daily quests/rare spawn mobs in the interim period between matches.

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that someone had the idea of a Bounty system. The idea would need to be refined but it could be interesting. Kill X number of level 90 players in Y zone. Not as a daily, but maybe a weekly quest.
    They had that kind of thing in Wintergrasp

    It could reward, honor or conquest or maybe something more fun that could actually LEAD to attacks on a city.

    What if there were quests that involve PVP, bounty hunting etc. that actually gave you some sort of a siege engine like thing to help attack a capital city. Again, idea would need to be refined/balanced, but i'm thinking some sort of progression where two/three friends group and do a pvp quest in a pvp zone.

    Successful completion of said quest leads to maybe some relative increase in power (say for e.g. only against guards in a city (not vendors)). They could have an increased chance of success in raiding a city.

    The War Bear achievement from killing leaders was a great idea. I think anything to promote more WPvP and attacks on cities to make it actually feel like we're at WAR would be great. While people complain about NPC deaths and such, they would have high respawn rates AND if you're on a PVP server: SUCK IT UP!
    I'm not sure attacking capital cities would attract too much love. I think they're better off sticking to huge PvP zones, like Wintergrasp.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well, Battlegrounds killed massive world PvP that was for "the lulz."
    I honestly don't see why they can't co-exist. I don't think Battlegrounds was a bad thing, just that world PVP got left behind since BG play had incentives.


    I'm saying they should put things like Halaa (or the hellfire/bonewastes towers) IN the PvP zones, to be contested for separately during the matches. So even if you lost the match, you might still hold a certain point that allows you access to certain daily quests/rare spawn mobs in the interim period between matches.
    Right, like in Wintergrasp / Tol Barad where you still had dailies. Thing is a lot of them were PVE-ish. They'd need to promote pvp play somehow even via those dailies.



    They had that kind of thing in Wintergrasp
    I remember that, but the problem was that you could kill alliance/horde guards and even guns on towers (at some point?) for credit. I mean a proper bounty hunter quest. Not sure about implementation process, but idea is appealing. It could apply only to level 90 zones. You go out and kill x number of enemies for the bounty. Also, as you get close to completion say around 7/10 kills or more, there's a higher bounty placed on your head so maybe one of your deaths is worth 3 of your allies? Just spit-balling here.


    I'm not sure attacking capital cities would attract too much love. I think they're better off sticking to huge PvP zones, like Wintergrasp.
    I respectfully disagree. I think there needs to be SOME sort of faction vs faction animosity than what already exists. I really enjoyed the killing alliance leader achievements and getting the Warbear. I'd love to see something like that on a smaller scale that around 3-5 people could handle.

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