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  1. #1

    Future of Dalaran?

    Genuine question. Do you think dalaran will become alliance only after mop? Or is that out of the question

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    The Northrend hub city won't, but that doesn't mean future expansions can't have an Alliance-only Dalaran show up unless the Kirin Tor and Sunreavers reconcile after Orgrimmar (unlikely, given how recent Garrosh's betrayal and the subsequent Purge of Dalaran are, never mind the Isle of Thunder).

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    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    The Northrend hub city won't, but that doesn't mean future expansions can't have an Alliance-only Dalaran show up unless the Kirin Tor and Sunreavers reconcile after Orgrimmar (unlikely, given how recent Garrosh's betrayal and the subsequent Purge of Dalaran are, never mind the Isle of Thunder).
    The problem I have with that is that, despite how nifty Dalaran was as a city, we already spent an entire expansion sitting around it... Giving it to the Alliance to sit in around... AGAIN... would be somewhat of a let down.

    As for "it showing up for convenient story points," that's possible as well, but... Dalaran is not an unsubstantial piece of flying real estate. It's a bit unwieldy to just pop in and out for quests every now and again.
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  4. #4
    Unless or until they redo Northrend, the Wrath version of Dalaran will still be a neutral sanctuary.

    Besides that, there may be an Alliance only version of it at some point when it gets wherever it's going.

    Yes, there could be two Dalarans without any real logic gap or contradiction whatsoever. Just takes accepting that when you're in Northrend, your character is in a place that's permanently stuck in time at a point around the fall of the Lich King and the defeat of Yogg-Saron, where Rhonin is still alive, there has been no Cataclysm yet, Pandaria is still lost behind the mists, etc. When Alliance characters are in hypothetical Dustwallow/Westfall/Wetlands/Arathi/Hillsbrad-aran, they are in the city that is led by Jaina Proudmoore following the destruction of Theramore.

    No different whatsoever from going on a tour of the various expansions and visiting the Garroshes.

  5. #5
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    What happens to Dalaran? Me and my wyvern will fly up to it, 10 minutes later it will crash down in flames and sparkles.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #6
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    I think the first item on the Kirin Tor's (or more specifically, the Council of Six') order of business should be to remove Jaina as leader of the Kirin Tor, and possibly put her, Vereesa and all members of the Silver Covenant involved in the Purge of Dalaran on trial. Holding the entirety of the Sunreavers accountable for the actions of a few (murdering and falsely imprisoning them), murdering citizens of Dalaran who dissented (various shopkeepers) prove that, even if Dalaran is now declared for the Alliance, Jaina is not the person to be its leader. She's a loose cannon now, and the crimes she perpetrated on the streets of Dalaran exceed the deeds Arthas committed in Stratholme, actions she at the time was so critical of.

    Unfortunately, because it's Jaina and Vereesa, and because most gamers have a limited attention span that makes political intrigue stories prohibitive, I doubt that'd happen. At the very least, I'd like to see the Sunreavers released from the Violet Hold, she has absolutely no right to hold them.
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  7. #7
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    I think the first item on the Kirin Tor's (or more specifically, the Council of Six') order of business should be to remove Jaina as leader of the Kirin Tor, and possibly put her, Vereesa and all members of the Silver Covenant involved in the Purge of Dalaran on trial.
    All the remaining leaders of the Kirin tor are high elves or humans; I doubt that's going to happen.

    Holding the entirety of the Sunreavers accountable for the actions of a few (murdering and falsely imprisoning them),
    They were all suspects of aiding an enemy that had previously obliterated her city, and delivered yet another powerful superweapon into the same madman's hands.

    murdering citizens of Dalaran who dissented (various shopkeepers) prove that, even if Dalaran is now declared for the Alliance, Jaina is not the person to be its leader.
    They directly disobeyed an edict ordered by the leader of the Kirin Tor. That makes them traitors.

    She's a loose cannon now, and the crimes she perpetrated on the streets of Dalaran exceed the deeds Arthas committed in Stratholme, actions she at the time was so critical of.
    Not even close. Arthas unilaterally purged a city of ALL its inhabitants, who had no prior affiliation with the cult of the damned or any of the scourge/legion's forces.

    Jaina issued an edict to detain possible enemies of the Kirin Tor; those who defied this order or attempted to abscond were killed.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
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  8. #8
    The Patient sylvira's Avatar
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    Day or so ago I wrote my own ideas for Warcraft in wordpad ( WiP still ) but figured out this as something for Dalaran and the two elven factions. 0: This is how I would love to see it to go, but I am not so sure of the PvP part.

    The movement of Dalaran and the exilement of the Horde from the floating city met with Silver Covenant's own plans.

    Dalaran has been moved to cover the crater of Theramore in Dustwallow Marsh, offering the Alliance a city in the regions of southern Kalimdor.

    With the help of Sunreaver's Command in Crystalsong Forest, the Horde forces met before at Dalaran expanded the small camp into a size of a formidable blood elf village, offering heroes of the Horde the services available back then in Dalaran.

    Selected force of elite Silver Covenant High elves lead by a yet to be named Kirin Tor mage descended to Windrunner's Overlook to have the place fortified and expanded in similiar manner to Sunreaver's Command.

    The rework of these two camps offer a new variety of level 74-77 quests describing the battles between the two formerly "allied" factions. In addition to the several new quests, a open-world PvP area has been set up above in the air where Dalaran used to be, centered around the smaller floating islands that used to circle the city. Sunreaver and Silver Covenant want to use these areas for their own means.
    Im thinking of making a edited map of Crystalsong Forest aswell for this.
    Last edited by sylvira; 2013-07-08 at 02:00 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    All the remaining leaders of the Kirin tor are high elves or humans; I doubt that's going to happen.



    They were all suspects of aiding an enemy that had previously obliterated her city, and delivered yet another powerful superweapon into the same madman's hands.



    They directly disobeyed an edict ordered by the leader of the Kirin Tor. That makes them traitors.



    Not even close. Arthas unilaterally purged a city of ALL its inhabitants, who had no prior affiliation with the cult of the damned or any of the scourge/legion's forces.

    Jaina issued an edict to detain possible enemies of the Kirin Tor; those who defied this order or attempted to abscond were killed.
    In what world is being a suspect equivalent to being found guilty?

    Jaina is a dictator in Dalaran. Rhonin, as terrible a Mary Sue as he may have been, was presented as a far more competent and deliberative leader. She acted irrationally and emotionally - she should never have been installed as leader of the Kirin Tor, the emotional impact of Theramore clearly rendered her incompetent for the position of leader of an organisation that transcended factional boundaries.

    We haven't really ever learned much about how the government of Dalaran functions, but I would at least expect some amount of deliberation to take place with the Council of Six. The leader should be answerable to them. The Sunreavers should have been given the opportunity to make a case for themselves, and if that failed, leave on their own terms. Jaina exiled them, then set the Silver Covenant on them before they could even comply with that.

    She's exceeded the evil of Arthas, because he purged an already doomed city to prevent the citizens of Stratholme from being risen as Scourge minions under the control of Mal'ganis. Jaina on the other hand ordered the Silver Covenant to slaughter innocents and civilians for disagreeing with her. People think Sylvanas is going to be a raid boss, but my money's on this deranged shrew descending deeper into madness, failing some sort of intervention to bring her into line.
    #GamerGate has as much to do with misogyny and hatred as atheism has to do with the Big Bang Theory - belief in the BBT is completely separate to the assertion that there is no conclusive proof that any god exists. #GamerGate is about ethics in video game journalism. Misogyny is an optional extra of a vocal minority.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Ticj's Avatar
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    Did you even play on the alliance side? Jaina gave the sunreavers a chance, more than once. They betrayed the Kirin Tor using the city's magics for destruction. The people who were killed were the ones who were trying to put up a fight.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    In what world is being a suspect equivalent to being found guilty?

    Jaina is a dictator in Dalaran. Rhonin, as terrible a Mary Sue as he may have been, was presented as a far more competent and deliberative leader. She acted irrationally and emotionally - she should never have been installed as leader of the Kirin Tor, the emotional impact of Theramore clearly rendered her incompetent for the position of leader of an organisation that transcended factional boundaries.

    We haven't really ever learned much about how the government of Dalaran functions, but I would at least expect some amount of deliberation to take place with the Council of Six. The leader should be answerable to them. The Sunreavers should have been given the opportunity to make a case for themselves, and if that failed, leave on their own terms. Jaina exiled them, then set the Silver Covenant on them before they could even comply with that.

    She's exceeded the evil of Arthas, because he purged an already doomed city to prevent the citizens of Stratholme from being risen as Scourge minions under the control of Mal'ganis. Jaina on the other hand ordered the Silver Covenant to slaughter innocents and civilians for disagreeing with her. People think Sylvanas is going to be a raid boss, but my money's on this deranged shrew descending deeper into madness, failing some sort of intervention to bring her into line.
    Not exactly. She told Aethas to leave, he refused, so she ordered them all arrested. Those that were killed are those that chose to fight back.

    The silver covenant on the other hand, took advantage of things in the sewers but that wasn't from jaina's orders.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    In what world is being a suspect equivalent to being found guilty?

    Jaina is a dictator in Dalaran. Rhonin, as terrible a Mary Sue as he may have been, was presented as a far more competent and deliberative leader. She acted irrationally and emotionally - she should never have been installed as leader of the Kirin Tor, the emotional impact of Theramore clearly rendered her incompetent for the position of leader of an organisation that transcended factional boundaries.

    We haven't really ever learned much about how the government of Dalaran functions, but I would at least expect some amount of deliberation to take place with the Council of Six. The leader should be answerable to them. The Sunreavers should have been given the opportunity to make a case for themselves, and if that failed, leave on their own terms. Jaina exiled them, then set the Silver Covenant on them before they could even comply with that.

    She's exceeded the evil of Arthas, because he purged an already doomed city to prevent the citizens of Stratholme from being risen as Scourge minions under the control of Mal'ganis. Jaina on the other hand ordered the Silver Covenant to slaughter innocents and civilians for disagreeing with her. People think Sylvanas is going to be a raid boss, but my money's on this deranged shrew descending deeper into madness, failing some sort of intervention to bring her into line.
    pls stop bein horde fanboy and read some books and you'll know how dalaran gets his leader..stop bashing jaina just cause she stood up for herself once..

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    In what world is being a suspect equivalent to being found guilty?

    Jaina is a dictator in Dalaran. Rhonin, as terrible a Mary Sue as he may have been, was presented as a far more competent and deliberative leader. She acted irrationally and emotionally - she should never have been installed as leader of the Kirin Tor, the emotional impact of Theramore clearly rendered her incompetent for the position of leader of an organisation that transcended factional boundaries.

    We haven't really ever learned much about how the government of Dalaran functions, but I would at least expect some amount of deliberation to take place with the Council of Six. The leader should be answerable to them. The Sunreavers should have been given the opportunity to make a case for themselves, and if that failed, leave on their own terms. Jaina exiled them, then set the Silver Covenant on them before they could even comply with that.

    She's exceeded the evil of Arthas, because he purged an already doomed city to prevent the citizens of Stratholme from being risen as Scourge minions under the control of Mal'ganis. Jaina on the other hand ordered the Silver Covenant to slaughter innocents and civilians for disagreeing with her. People think Sylvanas is going to be a raid boss, but my money's on this deranged shrew descending deeper into madness, failing some sort of intervention to bring her into line.
    Nope. End of Isle of Thunder basically whitewashed away any chance of that happening. Those events will be swept under the rug and forgotten about because they would make the Alliance look bad or questionable.

  14. #14
    In story? Yes, it will stay an Alliance-only city/nation as long as Jaina and the Silver Covenant will remain mostly in power.

    In game? It's possible that an Alliance-only Dalaran could show up in future devlopments.

    In Northrend? No, that will stay neutral and not be reflected in Pandaria's events at all.
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  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire anisadora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    In what world is being a suspect equivalent to being found guilty?

    Jaina is a dictator in Dalaran. Rhonin, as terrible a Mary Sue as he may have been, was presented as a far more competent and deliberative leader.

    Youre forgetting that Jaina told them who she was, and they ASKED her to be their leader. There is something to be said for the shoddy storyline, and the odd fact that it seems females cant really be portrayed as competent leaders in warcraft... But they asked her to lead Dalaran, it was fortold, etc. She did give them a chance to leave, and they didn't. She didnt slaughter people like Arthas did.

  16. #16
    Go GO Alliance flying fortress of badass mage-itude

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Azahel's Avatar
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    Future of Dalaran = Same as Gilneas.

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  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire anisadora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    In story? Yes, it will stay an Alliance-only city/nation as long as Jaina and the Silver Covenant will remain mostly in power.

    In game? It's possible that an Alliance-only Dalaran could show up in future devlopments.

    In Northrend? No, that will stay neutral and not be reflected in Pandaria's events at all.
    I really have two minds of this. A, I dont want it to change if Northrend doesn't change.

    B - the lack of females in this game, and the lack of badass, well portrayed and well rounded females is lacking. I was excited to see Jaina LEADING Dalaran. So if we do ever revisit Northrend (You do wonder if the whole missing pieces of Forstmourne, Arthas was holding back the scourge, etc will play in) I do hope it happens. Maybe some way that you, or the AI, chooses for you, which one to send you to. Caverns of Time or something.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    Nope. End of Isle of Thunder basically whitewashed away any chance of that happening. Those events will be swept under the rug and forgotten about because they would make the Alliance look bad or questionable.
    How exactly does that story whitewash what went down in Dalaran? The only way that MIGHT happen is if it turns out Aethas and most of the Sunreavers WERE guilty which is unlikely even if Aethas does turn out to be evil or something.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Not exactly. She told Aethas to leave, he refused, so she ordered them all arrested. Those that were killed are those that chose to fight back.

    The silver covenant on the other hand, took advantage of things in the sewers but that wasn't from jaina's orders.
    Jaina still overstepped her bounds. Kel'thuzad incident sets precedent that the leader can't eject a Council member on a whim (which is what Jaina did when she told Aethas to leave). Antonidas INVESTIGATED THOROUGHLY with 2 other Council members the accusations against Kel'thuzad. When proof of his guilt was found, then Kel'thuzad was ejected. Jaina had no proof, and she had no participation of other Council members.

    The Theramore incident sets precedent that the leader can't unilaterally bring the Kirin Tor into a military conflict. Rhonin needed a majority ruling from the Council in order to send troops to Theramore. There was no vote on joining the Alliance's war against the Horde.
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