Thread: Dying breed

Page 1 of 7
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Searching for the Old Gods
    Posts
    2,120

    Dying breed

    Maybe its just me but does if feel like ferals are kind of a dying breed? Ill jump into many a pug only to have people A. Be shocked that a geared feral exists. B. See a feral doing competitive. C. Not be bad. I know it may not be true but but gd it feels like we are the last of a dying breed dont really see much ferals out there. Stay strong in the struggle brothers and sisters. *paw up*
    Chaos! Madness! Like a hug for your brain!¯\(°_o)/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
    14/14h and finally done

  2. #2
    Its not easy being a feral nowadays, feral skillcap is quite above all the top dps classes (i think, for me looks like that way), ferals are not target switch friendly, long lasting hard hitting dots are not a good thing when there's lots of adds to move arround and kill ( although fast AOE burst seems to be good, sustained AOE is not that good) plus, ferals tend to gravitate arround having a ROR or not.
    Most of the ferals that I know rolled moonkin too...

    My GF stands as one of the few ferals that actively raid with skill on our server so, yeah... its kinda a bad time for ferals, although ferals T15HC is quite good, the road to reach that is not that easy so... since the community is always about "what class is more faceroll and gives more deeps? X or Y?" in order to pick the next "main" that does not help aswell :P


    Good luck and dont give up!

  3. #3
    I find a lot of the people still playing Feral are people who have been playing it for a long time. It is quite a complex spec for newer people to learn and to make it worse because of the buffs/debuffs they bring Ferals are near useless in an ideal 10man setting, which is what most people raid now.

  4. #4
    There are a couple of reason why you dont see as many ferals anymore.

    1. Raidcomp: Almost noone takes a Feral druid over a roque. But even worse is the skill cap even if you play correctly and near perfection you will only do as much dmg as a good roque or dk. Even if a Raid has multiple druids they take them as moonkin heal or tank.

    2. Other melees: Rogues do more dmg in almost every aspect and have alot to not get bursted(like on tortos a rogue doesnt lose any life an that fight). Warriors provide banners. shamans have extreme utility and heal.

    3. Loot: So you raid 10m and you have a hunter and 1 leather tank. SO you already have two people running the same trinkets and gear and alot of guilds look at this one alot dont know why i never did we raid with 3 druids and 2 leather tanks but still.

    5. DPS: The feral does alot of dps if played really good. The problem a lesser skilled rogue or DK will do more dmg. Like SPs need to be played alot better to be on par with Wls(looking at dot management and uptimes). There are alot of fights where ferals cant compete right now,like council or horridon. mostly talking about heroic but still.

    6. overall melees: After they buffed movement dps from casters to a ridiculous level. melees are not favored anymore. Mostly there are only 1-2 fights every tier where melees shine. And its more likely to get bursted as a melee on almost every boss than as a range, sure some abilities dont hit you. And not to forget the space they need. If you run with a MW monk you already have 2 melees with a feral and the monk.

    I played feral throughout BC/WotLK on a good level and even got some ranks in ulduar. Now i am a guardian who is GM and RL, we are currently 5/13 and have had many raidcomp changes, but I never considered a feral. They have a hard rotation and can mess up alot. The need one trinket that drops of the last boss so getting this on heroic is really hard. Having a 10m guild that wants to raid heroic you have to can choose from 5 leather agi specs Guardian/BRM rogue WW feral. Most classes prefer DPS tank in 10m so you will most likely have a guardian or brm, now you take 1 plate dps and another melee. Alot of guilds will choose rogue or WW.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-07-08 at 04:37 AM.

  5. #5
    Yeah, our raid only considered taking a feral druid as a last resort when we couldn't find anyone else. The main reason is rogues: there's no reason to take a cat if an okay rogue will almost always pull more DPS.

  6. #6
    We bring utility.. hotw tranq is super sweet on progression. And roar! And we can soak stuff w/ symb on priest and pally!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    There are a couple of reason why you dont see as many ferals anymore.

    1. Raidcomp: Almost noone takes a Feral druid over a roque. But even worse is the skill cap even if you play correctly and near perfection you will only do as much dmg as a good roque or dk. Even if a Raid has multiple druids they take them as moonkin heal or tank.

    2. Other melees: Rogues do more dmg in almost every aspect and have alot to not get bursted(like on tortos a rogue doesnt lose any life an that fight). Warriors provide banners. shamans have extreme utility and heal.

    3. Loot: So you raid 10m and you have a hunter and 1 leather tank. SO you already have two people running the same trinkets and gear and alot of guilds look at this one alot dont know why i never did we raid with 3 druids and 2 leather tanks but still.

    5. DPS: The feral does alot of dps if played really good. The problem a lesser skilled rogue or DK will do more dmg. Like SPs need to be played alot better to be on par with Wls(looking at dot management and uptimes). There are alot of fights where ferals cant compete right now,like council or horridon. mostly talking about heroic but still.

    6. overall melees: After they buffed movement dps from casters to a ridiculous level. melees are not favored anymore. Mostly there are only 1-2 fights every tier where melees shine. And its more likely to get bursted as a melee on almost every boss than as a range, sure some abilities dont hit you. And not to forget the space they need. If you run with a MW monk you already have 2 melees with a feral and the monk.

    I played feral throughout BC/WotLK on a good level and even got some ranks in ulduar. Now i am a guardian who is GM and RL, we are currently 5/13 and have had many raidcomp changes, but I never considered a feral. They have a hard rotation and can mess up alot. The need one trinket that drops of the last boss so getting this on heroic is really hard. Having a 10m guild that wants to raid heroic you have to can choose from 5 leather agi specs Guardian/BRM rogue WW feral. Most classes prefer DPS tank in 10m so you will most likely have a guardian or brm, now you take 1 plate dps and another melee. Alot of guilds will choose rogue or WW.


    Uhhh, I beg to differ...

    1. Any GOOD raiding guild will bring the player, regardless of class *with exception*. Being a feral druid, I nearly outdps quite a lot of people in my guild, and we run 2 ferals. Not because of their "high dps", but more for utility.

    2. Warrior dmg is utter useless. You're better off, if you want banners, rally, etc, to run a Prot warrior. A GOOD / highly skilled feral will match a rogue's dps.

    3. 10m, enough said... /yawn

    5. I beg to differ. A less geared dk or rogue won't be competitive against a highly skilled feral under any circumstance.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by critsom View Post
    We bring utility.. hotw tranq is super sweet on progression. And roar! And we can soak stuff w/ symb on priest and pally!
    That was the main reason for me to play boomkin in the beginning of MoP, until I realized that none of that matters as much as the actual DPS, which is not that good compared to many other classes.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Tekkommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    4,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Kliker View Post
    Its not easy being a feral nowadays, feral skillcap is quite above all the top dps classes (i think, for me looks like that way), ferals are not target switch friendly,
    Been this way since WotLK...

    Reasons you don't see many in raiding guilds.

    Rogues and DKs do it far easier and better.
    Your class has 4 specs.
    It's probably the hardest DPS spec to play, so bad players will do low DPS.

    At least in WotLK, if played right, you did the best single target DPS, I don't know if it's still like that though. I always found the LK fight funny, our feral druid would be very low on the meter, but when checking most damage to the LK, he would be in the top 3.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2013-07-08 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #10
    Boomkins provide amazing burst (once cd's are up / on the pull). Aside from that, only provide mediocre dps unless there's multiple mobs.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by critsom View Post
    We bring utility.. hotw tranq is super sweet on progression. And roar! And we can soak stuff w/ symb on priest and pally!
    boomkin can do all that as well tho, and can probably do better dps because of being versatile with multi dots as well as being a ranged class

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    ATX
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by critsom View Post
    We bring utility.. hotw tranq is super sweet on progression. And roar! And we can soak stuff w/ symb on priest and pally!
    hotw specifically says it doesn't work with tranq, though instant cast bres's / hotw healing touches, and spamming rejuv on people while being able to stay kitty(only on rejuvs, NS-healing touch i meant on stay kitty) and refresh dots every other gcd helps a bit. (also a weapon swap for HotW, to a caster weapon can be pretty sweet) -rejuv 5+ people right before aoe phase, then pop tranq, with caster weapon is lovely, and since NS is toggled(stays on as unlimited duration until used)
    you always get those instant bres's / HT's that save peoples lives.

    unless they changed HotW again? druid stopped being my main(guardian always) when i was loving leveling my monk so much, only did first raid on him start of MoP, then monk all the rest. but it at least used to not work with tranquility, if not still doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post
    boomkin can do all that as well tho, and can probably do better dps because of being versatile with multi dots as well as being a ranged class
    i think it is also more about how melee unfriendly most fights are, why take an extra melee over a dk or rogue etc...when you can take a ranged(moonkin) as far as just druids go.
    Last edited by Christan; 2013-07-08 at 09:38 AM.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nishida View Post
    Uhhh, I beg to differ...

    1. Any GOOD raiding guild will bring the player, regardless of class *with exception*. Being a feral druid, I nearly outdps quite a lot of people in my guild, and we run 2 ferals. Not because of their "high dps", but more for utility.

    2. Warrior dmg is utter useless. You're better off, if you want banners, rally, etc, to run a Prot warrior. A GOOD / highly skilled feral will match a rogue's dps.

    3. 10m, enough said... /yawn

    5. I beg to differ. A less geared dk or rogue won't be competitive against a highly skilled feral under any circumstance.
    1. You play 25m it doesnt matter which classes you take cause you have enough, not to mention currently a feral brings nothing but a normal tranq and roar plus symbiosis, cause you dont take hotw as feral right now.

    2. Protwarriors are the weakest tank class right now, in terms of dps. And in 25m 1 warrior banner does about 60k dps for the raid. To be on par with dks/enhacnement you will have to play alot better than those classes and rogues currently top dps and if equaly geared and skilled rogue will always do more dps.

    3. Really 10v25 again? So you said utility is nice but utility is not that important in 25m.

    4. of course will less geared dks or rogues do less dmg. You always say that a highly skilled feral will be better of course highly skilled player will do good dps.

    In 25m ferals are fine cause they do good sustained single target dps. But utility wise hes as bad as a DK. Warriors rogues and enhancement shaman are alot better when it comes to healing or raidcds. tranq needs to be cast. Warrior banners are really strong, its about a 25k(10) and a 60k(25) raiddps increase, cry and demo are really strong, smokebomb. All the druid has is tranq, and he loses dmg even more if he is specced into HotW.

    Not saying ferals are bad, but in 10m other classes are better, and running a guardian/fury is more dmg overall and utility than prot/feral. And if you add that feral is the current weakest specc of all druids specc its hard to raid 10m (which most people raid currently).

    hotw specifically says it doesn't work with tranq
    You are swichting hotw with DoC, infact HotW tranq is the strongest aoe healing ability ingame when used by ferals/guardians with intweapon.

    It's probably the hardest DPS spec to play, so bad players will do low DPS
    Its not about bad players. even average or good players will still be behind average or good rogues sure if both are top 1 and 2 on dps all the time it doenst really matter.

    We bring utility.. hotw tranq is super sweet on progression. And roar! And we can soak stuff w/ symb on priest and pally!
    Actually on early progression, dmg absorbtion or EH is better than heal due to the lack of HP. Still hotw tranq is good but during progression you want dps and dps feral uses DoC cause it provides the most dps.

    Not because of their "high dps", but more for utility
    And what exactly do they bring?

    good single target dps and good dps on long aoe phases.
    low multitarget dmg bad at targetswitching except with symbiosis almost no cleave dmg at all.

    strong add control, aoe speed buff(slow dispell).
    tranq good with hotw, DoC does more dmg plus self and tankheal. needs to be cast.
    strong cooldowns.

    ferals just dont bring that much to the raid, rogues run the same loot and tokens, except weapons. smokebomb is a very good raidcooldown. does more dmg with equal gear. and have very strong selfcooldowns aswell. You can argue about a feral tanking the boss when a tank dies with HotW or even without it, but with smybiosis so does a rogue and very good I might add. plus they have MD. great cleave and aoe dmg, plus a perma slow that can be spread aoe.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-07-08 at 10:23 AM.

  14. #14
    I thought so to. Till lately I started doing LFR again with alt and I had 3-4 ferals in every part. Maybe they are dying as mains, but not as alts so it seems.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,345
    in my guild we atm got 2 ferals and 2 rouges but we raid 25 man so there is plenty of room to swap ppl in and out even if thier class is not optimal
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  16. #16
    Feral is not a "dying breed" it is just a big barrier to jump into. Just tonight I had a freshly dinged 90 feral asking me how to get better, and I spent a good hour or more showing him a few things and pointing him in the direction of good addons/tools. This guy just randomly whispered me asking for some help, not many people are going to do that. So if you see a feral struggling or just downright doing something wrong, let him know how he can improve.

    The big issue in WoW these days with newer players is that they rarely are encouraged to get better because either someone ridicules them instead of giving constructive advice, or they are just outright ignored

    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    Actually on early progression, dmg absorbtion or EH is better than heal due to the lack of HP. Still hotw tranq is good but during progression you want dps and dps feral uses DoC cause it provides the most dps.
    Not once have I ever used DoC on a progression fight. HotW tranq is hands down more useful to the raid than forcing out a little more dps. Why bother doinga little more dps when 1 raid cd and a few seconds of my time can allow us to 2 heal an encounter? DoC vs. HotW is far from an obvious choice, many top-end ferals use HotW and many of them use DoC.

    As far as ferals vs. rogue/warrior i've done 10h ToT with as many as 4 melee (rogue, feral, warrior, ret) and 1-2 hunters along side that. It can be done, period. Bringing a warrior/rogue over a feral is probably not going to make or break your raid at this point.

  17. #17
    I play feral, and as far as I know I'm the only feral in a top guild on my realm. Now my realm is pretty bad so that is probably not a very fair comparison.
    I find that we are not that bad, but some fights just work better for moonkins. When we start on a boss in our 10 man team I lack greatly on burst (im running with SotF and DoC) but I climb back to the top at the end of the fight. I've got several logs on World of Logs, nothing really high but I do notice that I rank more often then our boomkin that is not far behind my DPS. Moonkins are just more represented.

    Our team runs with an enhance shaman and another boomkin that runs with HotW so I don't need to use HotW on progression runs, so fortunately for me I can dish out my best DPS :P
    I feel like were underrepresented because blizzard has made it difficult for us ferals to target switch and dish out big numbers doing it (Horridon, Durumu, Council (a little bit)) but we do shine on fights like Tortos and Iron Qon, maybe even Twin Consorts (I have only tanked this fight on HC so wouldn't know as DPS).

    Hopefully 5.4 will give is a little Patchwerk fight we will shine on

  18. #18
    Iv been moonkin this Xpack and played feral alittle bit here and there, never in my main raids tho. I dont see many ferals as its true for most the feral rotation is hard trying to keep so many things going and buffed up. Ofc for us druids who played feral before its not hard, For new players it can be hard and stressful if you mess up one little thing and drop loads of DPS.

    Saying this ALOT of people who play druid now are feral for PvP as there burst can be so high and its easy to do. Also you dont see many ferals in 5mans as they never get a chance to even attack with most classes being pewpew from thw word go so druids dont do anything and probs get bored lol, + its faster to queue as guardian and resto :P i was feral during wrath and cata (cata made feral abit easy..) and next Xpack im tempted to go guardian :P

  19. #19
    Tell this to enh shamans.

    Sadly, our assumptions are not backed up by any statistics.

    And don't forget that Feral druid must be the rarest class/spec combination.
    Even in the perfect world where all classes/specs are distributed equally any druid spec will be represented by lower amount of players because there are 4 specs for class while other classes have just 3 specs.

    In the real world "feral" spec was devided into two - guardian and cat, so cat should be 2 times more rare than any other spec just because of this change.
    - Most ferals choose guardian, because tanking feels more rewarding.
    - Cat is melee, no one likes melee in raids
    - Pandaria added another leather user - monks, monks are pandas, pandas are cute -> no one wants to take cats in raids any more.

    So in theory ferals should be damn rare, about 10 times more rare than pure caster dps.

    But this graph shows that ferals are represented by about 1.4% of the pve community.
    http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html
    While top caster, shadow priest, is just 4 times more popular.
    If you take all ferals, not just actually raiding ferals, then situation is even better - ferals are just 2 times less popular than shadow priests.

    I would call it not bad at all.

    Not too many players can actually play ferals - it requires some skill and even a little bit of brain usage.
    And I really like it. It's owesome. Feral is the most owesome class in the game

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    ..... monks are pandas, pandas are cute -> no one wants to take cats in raids any more.
    So in theory ferals should be damn rare, about 10 times more rare than pure caster dps.
    Best theory I have seen on these forums. It's even backed up with statistics.
    On topic: Under-represented ? Yep. Dying breed ? Hardly.
    Last edited by Mirri; 2013-07-08 at 04:26 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •