Thread: Dying breed

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  1. #81
    As a quick note, feral really isn't lacking utility at all these days unless you're comparing with enhancement shamans (who are worlds above anyone else). As of 5.3 tranquility is amazingly strong, easily better than smoke bomb or devotion aura in almost any situation, even considering the longer cooldown.

  2. #82
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nishida View Post
    Uhhh, I beg to differ...

    1. Any GOOD raiding guild will bring the player, regardless of class *with exception*. Being a feral druid, I nearly outdps quite a lot of people in my guild, and we run 2 ferals. Not because of their "high dps", but more for utility.

    2. Warrior dmg is utter useless. You're better off, if you want banners, rally, etc, to run a Prot warrior. A GOOD / highly skilled feral will match a rogue's dps.

    3. 10m, enough said... /yawn

    5. I beg to differ. A less geared dk or rogue won't be competitive against a highly skilled feral under any circumstance.
    Warrior damage useless? Wut? IDK about that. My 540 warrior has about 30k on my 542 UH festerblight DK (220 v 190). Plus banner.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-07-12 at 07:48 AM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Aseyhe View Post
    As a quick note, feral really isn't lacking utility at all these days unless you're comparing with enhancement shamans (who are worlds above anyone else). As of 5.3 tranquility is amazingly strong, easily better than smoke bomb or devotion aura in almost any situation, even considering the longer cooldown.
    No smokebomb is almost always better in heroics. Preventing damage on the whole raid is almost always better than healing damage on half the raid. In addition 3 minute cooldown vs 8 minutes.

  4. #84
    I vaguely remember ulduar and ToC being bad for feral) where ICC was a golden age for feral. Feral has seemed fairly stable in MoP, but T11 (I may be wrong, first tier in Cata) feral was absolutely atrocious.
    The whole WotLK feral was kicking ass if played really good.

    No smokebomb is almost always better in heroics. Preventing damage on the whole raid is almost always better than healing damage on half the raid. In addition 3 minute cooldown vs 8 minutes.
    thats true and the fact tht tranq is limited to a certain amount of players. But tranq has high range so that makes it on alot of fights alot better.
    Tranq is better on during the 3 dog phase on iron qon, smokebomb is better on fights where you stack up and take alot of burst dmg. Rallying cry/devotion aura is the best when spread and take burst dmg(like DA) but Devotion aura only affects magic that not so good.

  5. #85
    I know that tranq only heals a certain amount of people, but I can assure you that whenever I tranq it tops the entire raid in 25 man on almost any given heroic encounter.

    I am a boomkin though, and we don't have a feral, although with HotW I'm sure it would make much of a difference

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamn View Post
    I know that tranq only heals a certain amount of people, but I can assure you that whenever I tranq it tops the entire raid in 25 man on almost any given heroic encounter.

    I am a boomkin though, and we don't have a feral, although with HotW I'm sure it would make much of a difference
    DoC is a dps increase in comparison to HotW. Some encounters I bring HotW just for the tranquility but those are specific encounters. The point is I have to actively choose to increase my tranquility's effectiveness it's not a given utility. And if I do choose my dps suffers (ever so slightly), rogues really don't have that problem

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    No smokebomb is almost always better in heroics. Preventing damage on the whole raid is almost always better than healing damage on half the raid. In addition 3 minute cooldown vs 8 minutes.
    With the change to Tranquility for 25s in 5.3 it has become an extremely powerful cooldown for 25 man heroics while staying the same in 10.

  8. #88
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    The difference being in BC and WotLK every progression raiding guild wanted at least 1 Feral. Now they only take them if they can't get something better.
    This has nothing to do with Feral Druids 'dying out' though. It has to do with how well Ferals are doing dps-wise and what else they bring to a raid. We're competitive enough, but only in the right hands.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Warrior damage useless? Wut? IDK about that. My 540 warrior has about 30k on my 542 UH festerblight DK (220 v 190). Plus banner.
    You must be doing something horribly wrong with your DK then, because there shouldn't be any reason why your warrior is doing that much more, let alone beating your dk.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    No smokebomb is almost always better in heroics. Preventing damage on the whole raid is almost always better than healing damage on half the raid. In addition 3 minute cooldown vs 8 minutes.
    You're assuming the entire raid is stacking up on melee at said given point. Which hardly ever happens unless it's Iron Quon (p4) or Megara..

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkbonk100 View Post
    I rarely see Feral druids when I do LFG and they're also rare in LFR. I guess most people don't enjoy the whole "Remember to keep this buff up or your dps gets cut by 30%, keep track of bleeds, remember to stay behind every single mob in the game, manage energy and combo points, "harder" to play than other melee DPS for less DPS" style.

    Yes yes, some of you might enjoy it and that's kewl, but in today's WoW it's all about doing as little as possible for as much gain as possible.
    I'm glad that we still have the spec as a choice in the game, though. I think we can all agree on that. Even if it's kind of a tough life, we love our cats.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    No smokebomb is almost always better in heroics. Preventing damage on the whole raid is almost always better than healing damage on half the raid. In addition 3 minute cooldown vs 8 minutes.
    I'm familiar with heroics. Preventing damage isn't better than healing unless you're saving people from getting 1-shot. The latter isn't something that generally happens in heroics (even doing heroics undergeared as part of the progression race, something I'm also familiar with) except in the cases of pre-nerf Interrupting Jolt (and smoke bomb wasn't even good there due to positioning), high-stack Unleashed Vita, or high-stack Unleashed Flame.

    Also, the the claim that tranquility "heals damage on half the raid" is rather misleading. It heals half the raid on each tick. Over its duration, it generally tops off the entire raid and keeps it topped off for a while.
    Last edited by Aseyhe; 2013-07-12 at 08:49 PM.

  12. #92
    Utility doesn't revolve only around defensive raid cooldowns though. As for Tranq itself, in the majority of the cases you'd be using a set of cooldowns for a certain part of a fight, which would consist of one damage reduction cooldown and one healing cooldown, comparing those two isn't entirely fair as they both serve a different purpose. In all honesty tranq should just be toned down to 3minutes for all specs rather than just resto.

  13. #93
    Making tranq a 3 min(or even 5 min) for cats might help make them more attractive and possibly increase raid representation.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirri View Post
    Making tranq a 3 min(or even 5 min) for cats might help make them more attractive and possibly increase raid representation.
    Make DoC healing touches apply increase healing taken buffs
    Allow tranq and hurricane while on cat form no channel and no GCD when weapon swapping while hotw is active. (10 sec cd on hurricane and only 1 active)
    Buff NV back to 20%, nerf incarnation (pvp).
    Add glyph of PS that makes the healing touch splash AoE.
    Bring back NS and just remove instant cyclone.

    There feral is attractive.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    This has nothing to do with Feral Druids 'dying out' though. It has to do with how well Ferals are doing dps-wise and what else they bring to a raid. We're competitive enough, but only in the right hands.
    I disagree. If Feral was as far above Rogues in DPS as Rogues have been above Feral then they would be all over the place. Also their representation on WoL would skyrocket. That's just the nature of the game and players. Any spec that spends 3 years at the bottom with brief periods of being mediocre would suffer the same fate that Feral has.

  16. #96
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    I disagree. If Feral was as far above Rogues in DPS as Rogues have been above Feral then they would be all over the place. Also their representation on WoL would skyrocket. That's just the nature of the game and players. Any spec that spends 3 years at the bottom with brief periods of being mediocre would suffer the same fate that Feral has.
    That's exactly what I was saying. Leaving Ferals out of raids = NOT the same as Feral 'dying'.

    The Ferals are still there as much as they always were, just not in most top raids.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Nishida View Post
    You must be doing something horribly wrong with your DK then, because there shouldn't be any reason why your warrior is doing that much more, let alone beating your dk.

    You're assuming the entire raid is stacking up on melee at said given point. Which hardly ever happens unless it's Iron Quon (p4) or Megara..
    Any Boss where you need to mitigate a large damage phase. It's not that hard to stack up or it certainly shouldn't be if you are doing heroics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aseyhe View Post
    I'm familiar with heroics. Preventing damage isn't better than healing unless you're saving people from getting 1-shot. The latter isn't something that generally happens in heroics (even doing heroics undergeared as part of the progression race, something I'm also familiar with) except in the cases of pre-nerf Interrupting Jolt (and smoke bomb wasn't even good there due to positioning), high-stack Unleashed Vita, or high-stack Unleashed Flame.
    Plus Iron Qon, plus Megaera, plus Consort twins. I can't think of any encounter where Tranquility is better in 10 man. It's obviously better in 25 man now since it just got buffed by 140%.


    Also 3 minutes vs 8 minutes is a really huge deal in 10 man.
    Last edited by teddabear; 2013-07-13 at 10:23 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    Plus Iron Qon, plus Megaera, plus Consort twins. I can't think of any encounter where Tranquility is better in 10 man. It's obviously better in 25 man now since it just got buffed by 140%.
    Tranquility is far better than smoke bomb in those cases. Difference of 20% damage mitigation versus ~60-80%.

  19. #99
    nah ppl wil enjoy it at some point and get back to it.

  20. #100
    Tranquility is far better than smoke bomb in those cases. Difference of 20% damage mitigation versus ~60-80%.
    Tranq doenst mitigate dmg. Cant really say tranq is better than smokebomb or SB better than tranq. tranq doenst mitigate 60-80% of that dmg.

    Smokebome(absorbs/mitigation): Is worht more during the first weeks of progress, where stuff will likely kill you due to the lack of HP.

    tran (heals): worht alot on non stacked fights with a certain dmg over a certing time.

    the main problem ifor ferals is on those fights like qon/magaera/council shaman outheal us cause our cooldown is so freaking long.

    Looking at numbers,

    An ability does 100k every 1 second for 10 seconds thats 1 million dmg per player.
    In 10m a tranq heals about 3 million dmg so thats 375k hps. With a 8 min cooldown.
    Smokebome will mitigate 100k dmg per player putting them at 200k hps, with a 3 min cooldown.

    If an ability does 500k dmg and you only ahve 450k life smokebome will save you tranq will do nothing. And alot of abilities doe about 100% of you hp as dmg during first weeks of progression. Ionisation one shotted with an ilvl<520 without cooldowns.

    The tier has all sorts of incoming dmg, so all spells are usefull. the problem is that tranq has a way to long cooldown, i would say 6 min is ok, so it lines up with hotw.

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