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  1. #1

    Lei Shen HC (10)

    Dear All,

    I would be very grateful for some Rogue-specific Lei Shen HC tips. We have just started on it:

    - P1 - Crashing Thunder - How to deal with this, feint in advance or just keep moving and hope you don't get hit?
    - Transitions - Spec Cheat Death to soak a second Static Shock? Or Elusiveness to reduce Helm of Command damage (NB I am in a quadrant with a BM Monk and no healer). I know Cheat Death is nice for Static Shock soaking, but I am not sure how I will stay alive if I get helmed without Elusiveness.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by jtstormrage; 2013-07-11 at 01:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    Dear All,

    I would be very grateful for some Rogue-specific Lei Shen HC. We have just started on it:

    - P1 - Crashing Thunder - How to deal with this, feint in advance or just keep moving and hope you don't get hit?
    - Transitions - Spec Cheat Death to soak a second Static Shock? Or Elusiveness to reduce Helm of Command damage (NB I am in a quadrant with a BM Monk and no healer). I know Cheat Death is nice for Static Shock soaking, but I am not sure how I will stay alive if I get helmed without Elusiveness.

    Thanks!
    Ignore crashing thunder, it's the least of your worries. Get burst of speed for the helm of command and I would recommend cheat death if you have 2 people, the brewmaster can heal you up to ~40 straight after.

    Really this fight is pretty intense but you're going to have a world of impact by soloing some of this stuff.

  3. #3
    P1 - Crashing Thunder
    - I was running with another melee and we both just agreed different directions to run when it was about to hit so we minimised the risk. Our healers were always ready too just in case, many times if you are moving as it lands you won't get hit or not hit hard. Do expect to catch it sometimes though especially if you are also avoiding an overcharge at the same time.

    Transitions
    - I went with Cheat Death and was on a platform with a tank in both transitions, first a warrior (no heals) and second transition a guardian (very limited heals). On each transition I would always solo soak the first static with cloak (make sure it is off CD for the transitions!) and if I got a second would use cheat death to survive it (you WILL get 2 statics at some point and depending on what your platform partner gets being able to survive 2 solo is a definite plus e.g. if I get 2 statics and the warrior tank has helm or static too close to bouncing balls and they are split across opposite sides). I would always start the transition with a full recup rolling on me and we had a lock so I had a healthstone ready. If at any point I dropped too low, I would call out to the healer at the next platform (there was always one assigned to be at the left of their platform) and we would both move closer quickly (but at max range) for a quick heal or hot to be thrown and then move back to the middle area, timing is important to minimise the chances of double overcharges in the wrong place.

    We have killed it twice now and during progress had many wipes lol - I very, very rarely died on transitions (in fact just once or twice I think in the whole time). One tip I would give is that if like me you are assigned to the platform being deactivated be sure to be running to the edge just after the last ability goes out, that way even if you end up on low HP you won't get finished off by the lightning on the ground in the deactivated part.

    Good luck!

  4. #4
    For talents, Cheat Death is basically a necessity due to the possiblity of double Static Shock, and Burst of Speed for getting to your quadrant when transitions start and keeping up with the boss when he's moved between conduits.

    In terms of Helm of Command, I highly recommend the Sprint glyph so you can entirely counteract the pushback and you should be able to snag some heals from a healer on another platform or your BM monk can put down some healing spheres for you. Helm might proc Cheat Death which when you unfortunately have Cloak on CD and get a second Static Shock after Helm, you might be able to soak with Smoke Bomb and the Monk as long as you pop feint and he uses a personal (Guard would probably be best for it short CD).

    If you're doing Static Shock as the first destroyed conduit, then after the first transition you can entirely soak a Static Shock alone with just Feint and as long as you're full HP you will survive without proccing Cheat Death, though this is not really too useful of information.

    Crashing Thunder is pretty much unavoidable to take at least one hit of it, then running out of it is simple enough; the damage is minimal enough that it won't kill you and healers can pick you back up shortly after.

  5. #5
    Burst of speed is not necessary for transitions or to keep meleeing him when changing conduits, his hit box is massive, shadowstep will keep you in range without a problem.
    Not having shadowstep can be a major issue if you get an overcharge on you on the way to your platform, being able to shadowstep to someone or to a monk heal statue in the middle of your platform will save other platforms from getting hit.

    Glyph sprint for helm, drop smokebomb glyph, if you use smokebomb for thunderstrucks once off hit, the extra duration is pointless.
    As for static shock, I do it on 25 man, so the damage of a levelled up Static Shock just straight up kills you, but the damage seems so low on 10 man, cheat death should always proc.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    Dear All,

    I would be very grateful for some Rogue-specific Lei Shen HC. We have just started on it:

    - P1 - Crashing Thunder - How to deal with this, feint in advance or just keep moving and hope you don't get hit?
    - Transitions - Spec Cheat Death to soak a second Static Shock? Or Elusiveness to reduce Helm of Command damage (NB I am in a quadrant with a BM Monk and no healer). I know Cheat Death is nice for Static Shock soaking, but I am not sure how I will stay alive if I get helmed without Elusiveness.

    Thanks!
    Crashing Thunder can be ignored for the most part. Just don't stand in it. If he's going to do it while moving to a new conduit, I'd pop Feint because that's the only time it could kill you.

    I'd recommend Elusiveness because it's useful the entire fight while Cheat Death is rarely useful and never necessary. In the rare situation where you do get two, you can stack with the tank, pop Feint, and have the tank pop a minor CD (can drop Bomb too). That's what I've always done.

    Also, a BrM is a healer. Healing Spheres are insane. You can still stay alive with Elusiveness, a health stone, and a bandage if you're paired with any other tank (I'm sometimes paired with a DK and stay alive just fine).

  7. #7
    I took elusiveness instead of cheat death. If I had a second static shock, I would feint + smoke bomb or feint + hand of sac. My platform was always just me and the prot paladin.

    I didn't take burst of speed either--regular sprint works just fine. Also, if you get near the edge, just shadowstep to someone within range. You need to be aware of when helm of command comes out and position yourself as close to the center of the room as possible. This goes for everyone in your group. Also, warlock portals help out for raid members without access to a good movement speed increase.

    For crashing thunder--if you stack with the other melee (not the tank) before it goes out, it is a lot easier. If you guys all run one direction (ex: clockwise) you shouldnt end up getting two in a row. Dont ever run to where your tank will be standing.

    Get good at timing your shadowsteps when moving the boss between platforms. The boss hitbox is pretty huge so you can wait longer than you think you can. There are some transitions (at least for my group) where I need to time it right so I dont get overcharged between the ranged stack and the tank.
    Last edited by rayanne; 2013-07-08 at 05:37 PM.

  8. #8
    Dont see the point of speccing burst of speed at all for this fight, shadowstep is always nice and gives you more mobility throughout every phase of the fight not just the transitionphase.

    as for helm of command: glyphed sprint+feint and you can even soak a small impact at the same time(dont remember the name... the one that spawns adds...) remember that there are always only 4 helms of command and you can technically take on 3 (glyphed sprint, prep, 2nd sprint, next phase, sprint is rdy again). the chance of getting 4 helms of commands is so low its not even worth discussing, if its even possible at all...

    as for crashing thunder, you can easily take one hit, its only ~150k and you usually dont get too much dmg during that phase anyway. as someone said before, its the least of your worries.

    I always prefer elusiveness here. its a 65% dmg reduction. shock does 1.5 million dmg so you will get about 525k dmg which you should survive if youre fully healed up, drop a smokebomb to be completely sure as there is no definite need for it in this fight anyway (certain random situations call for smokebomb but you shouldnt have to have it ready for those...)
    elusiveness is also good for soaking the smaller impacts as well as dealing with helm of command. (50k ticks instead of 70k)

    the glyphs I use are vendetta, feint and sprint. (a longer lasting feint can be pretty nice during phase 2 and 3 when the ball lightnings spawn) It can make all the difference in how many hits of a ball lightning you can take before you get healed. especially since there are other damage sources as well.
    ~

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharlok View Post
    Dont see the point of speccing burst of speed at all for this fight, shadowstep is always nice and gives you more mobility throughout every phase of the fight not just the transitionphase.
    In a black and white world I would say go for it, but this fight tests your resolve in dealing with emergency situations a lot. I can't count the amount of times I save sprint for those occasions but end up using it to dive for a rogue bouncing bolt.

    Burst of speed just helps at a miniscule dps loss.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    In a black and white world I would say go for it, but this fight tests your resolve in dealing with emergency situations a lot. I can't count the amount of times I save sprint for those occasions but end up using it to dive for a rogue bouncing bolt.

    Burst of speed just helps at a miniscule dps loss.
    What about those times when you get an overcharge in a bad place, and you need to shadowstep to someone in the middle of your platform?
    Shadowstep counters a bad RANDOM situation. BoS counters bad play, which can be prevented, by not being bad.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Not sure how bad Bouncing Bolts are on 10m, but if you Smoke Bomb on Lei Shen just before he begins the cast (about 4s on DBM worked for me) he won't cast it. Not sure if working as intended or clever use of game mechanics though.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyowin View Post
    Not sure how bad Bouncing Bolts are on 10m, but if you Smoke Bomb on Lei Shen just before he begins the cast (about 4s on DBM worked for me) he won't cast it. Not sure if working as intended or clever use of game mechanics though.
    Well the same things works on council, so is probably legit.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyowin View Post
    Not sure how bad Bouncing Bolts are on 10m, but if you Smoke Bomb on Lei Shen just before he begins the cast (about 4s on DBM worked for me) he won't cast it. Not sure if working as intended or clever use of game mechanics though.
    I hope you're joking! If this is true in 25 man, with 3 rogues you can negate the interim phase almost completely.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    I hope you're joking! If this is true in 25 man, with 3 rogues you can negate the interim phase almost completely.
    I wouldn't test it, personally. If you can avoid an entire phase of mechanics to grab a progression kill... you won't necessarily get caught, but if it catches on and/or Blizzard has a good reason to check your fight in particular, I'm not sure which side of "creative use of game mechanics" they'd decide it sits on, and personally, I'd rather not find out. Avoiding *some* is probably safer since it would be less of a red flag than 0 damage taken by bouncing bolts or something similar.

    I know I'm not big on pushing the envelope, but I like my account.

    jts - I'll let you know if I get anything to add, we're in the same place right now and primarily dying in 1.5

  15. #15
    Bombing Frostbite on Council is a pretty common practice now. I haven't heard of any bans going out over that and they haven't fixed it yet.

    I'd say bombing Bolts on Lei Shen is in the same vein, and Frostbite is a lot harder to deal with than Bolts (at least for 10m; I know Bolts hit way harder on 25m).

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Bombing Frostbite on Council is a pretty common practice now. I haven't heard of any bans going out over that and they haven't fixed it yet.

    I'd say bombing Bolts on Lei Shen is in the same vein, and Frostbite is a lot harder to deal with than Bolts (at least for 10m; I know Bolts hit way harder on 25m).
    Likely true. I might bring it up to my group, it just leaves me with that uneasy feeling of suspecting Blizzard does not approve and the possible "other shoe" dropping in the future. Should probably read most of my "this may be an exploit" comments with that knowledge :P

    I doubt they'd ever post saying "you're 100% allowed to do that, very creative" in response to someone asking, though... and asking feels like asking for attention. I hate catch-22s.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    I could prevent Bouncing Bolts last night, but tonight I'm not able to. I think they hotfixed it.

  18. #18
    So after trying different combinations, I am going with Shadowstep because his hitbox is massive and you can SS him to keep up when he is moving. You can also SS your partner during Helm in an emergency and, if there are two bolts during Helm, you can SS your Partner to take one, while he goes to the other.

    As to the transition, Elusiveness and Healthstone has definitely saved me from Helm ticks, and so the plan is that I run to another quadrant if I get two Static Shocks and soak/Smoke Bomb in that group. That is rare, and even rarer is that while I am doing that my BrM gets two Bouncing Bolts, but he can pick up the add if that happens.

    That seems to work ok for now, however BOS and Cheat Death are certainly viable alternatives, and I have only gone with Elusiveness because Helm ticks hurt like hell, and there is so much aoe damage in this fight.

    Bouncing Balls is the next problem and we have a strat for those but maybe not on topic here (and happy to discuss 10 man Bouncing Ball strats, but there are other threads where more experienced people than me have offered their views!).

    Thanks everyone for comments.

  19. #19
    FYI according to some people on the official forums you can no longer smoke bomb bolts.
    Fierydemise
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    FYI according to some people on the official forums you can no longer smoke bomb bolts.
    Doesn't work here neither. For the anecdote, it also didn't during PTR/progress.

    So after trying different combinations, I am going with Shadowstep because his hitbox is massive and you can SS him to keep up when he is moving. You can also SS your partner during Helm in an emergency and, if there are two bolts during Helm, you can SS your Partner to take one, while he goes to the other.
    Shadowstep also make your uptime on the boss higher on phase 1 and 2 without any energy loss. You can also shadowstep while affected by overcharge, which can often be useful, especially as it allow you more room to position during intermission, since you don't really have to care to be reachable anymore.

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