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  1. #561
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    It will be much like the Cartel Market in SWTOR purchasing matching set gear and modding it as you see fit, or certain mounts and such like the current store already has. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and sadly, the blissfully happy group of gamers are the Titanic.
    Given the reviews of the SW:TOR F2P (god, the acronyms) system I don't expect an eventual Blizzard F2P schema to look anything like that so what might be in the store apart from what you wrote is anyone's guess at this point. They would be smarter to do F2P more like Trion although it's really hard to say since the F2P point for WoW is considerably different than a lot of people believe it to be. Blizzard is bigger than most other studios and WoW pays for a lot of irons in the fire so the correct calculation on that is not when they lose so many subscribers the game becomes unprofitable but more like when the game can't fund Blizzard at the level it does now. When that revenue point hits though where F2P is better for them than P2P, they'll embrace it in a heartbeat.

    They really need to get busy and diversify their product line. Too many eggs in the WoW basket for too many years in my opinion. It's worked for them for a very long time so it's difficult to say they were wrong per se. It appears to me that they've possibly painted themselves into a fiscal corner though.

    A smarter play for them might be to do F2P up to the current expansion with the cash shop and whatnot but require people to buy the newest expansion to play in it and then convert that to F2P when the next comes out. I think that's something like SOE does with EQ/EQII. And of course, have a plan like they do now, $15 a month gets you what you get now and add a monthly credit towards cash shop stuff. Somewhere in there, there's probably a viable plan. You could likely expect 20+ million players in a WoW F2P system, perhaps more.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-07-10 at 09:49 PM.
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  2. #562
    Love listening to the apologists justify the addition of a cash shop because vivendi MIGHT try and siphon money from acti-blizz. (in a game that requires initial purchase fee (for each xpac mind you) as well as subscription). Poor blizzard, so strapped for cash, look at all the eager little ignorants desperately justifying why they want to give them more money.

    I have never seen a more gullible group of consumers.

  3. #563
    Not much of a shock, we all knew once the Sparkle Pony made them $1 million in under 24 hours it was inevitable.

    With subs crashing and expected to continue to decline they have to figure out a method to keep profits rising.

    Lets review what they've done so far...

    Many more pets/mounts added to the cash store
    Lay off as many workers as possible to streamline the customer service experience
    LFR to produce cheap content for mass consumption

    Well whats left? Revenue must be increased and they know they cannot expect to increasing their sub base again. So if you have less people paying, the only way to increase profit now is to make each person already paying pay more.

    Now if they raise the sub rate they risk backlash so that's a last ditch choice. But if you can entice folks to shell put more money voluntarily for items not available in game you can increase the pay-per-person amount.

    So enter The Cash Shop!

    Anyone with any ability to think objectively saw this coming along time ago. I quit WoW back when they 1st open the "mount/pet" store knowing that this day would come sooner or later.

    The funny thing is Activison has killed WoW, it just took them a little longer because of how large and popular it was. On the plus side now I can laugh and so I told you so

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    I have never seen a more gullible group of consumers.
    stop thinking of them as consumers; they dont behave like consumers do in any other area of life. if you think of them as cult members, the behaviour starts to make a lot more sense.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    The volume of new game features and content in MoP is a direct consequence of people cancelling subscriptions during Cataclysm. You're welcome.

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    stop thinking of them as consumers; they dont behave like consumers do in any other area of life. if you think of them as cult members, the behavior starts to make a lot more sense.
    Someone really needs to study how company's like Blizzard and even Apple manage to create this feeling of "fanboyism". I mean imagine developing a customer base where you can almost do no wrong and people will buy what ever you make just because you made it.

    Not only that but your consumers will actively go out and defend those decision, voluntarily and sometimes almost obsessively to any detractors.

    Really it boggles my mind; your right Hueh its almost akin to faith.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    I think the term Pay-to-win is just a very loose and fluid concept. The term pay-for-bypass is likely the better verbiage.
    I agree with you, but imo this term shouldn't be used at all in relation to cash-shops. Cash-shop is cash-shop, selling in-game goods, which is fine for games for which you don't pay (f2p). But if someone pays for game, cash-shop is out of the question. If WoW would be f2p, there would be little to no issues with cash-shop. But it is p2p, and currently existing cash-shop is already too much. And even having it as part of in-game UI is nothing but an insult to paying customers.
    stop thinking of them as consumers; they dont behave like consumers do in any other area of life. if you think of them as cult members, the behaviour starts to make a lot more sense.
    It would sound funny if it wasn't sad at same time. Too close to the truth :(

  7. #567
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    stop thinking of them as consumers; they dont behave like consumers do in any other area of life. if you think of them as cult members, the behaviour starts to make a lot more sense.
    The "Cult of the Anti-Blizzard" makes as much if not more noise than the "Fanboys of Azeroth". Neither side covers itself in glory in this regard. It really is striking how many people who have left and apparently hate the game hang around to post on forums. Not to mention their constant marveling at the idea that people that visit fan web sites might be actual fans. So too with the cash shop. There's potential for good and bad things but not really enough is known about it to say anything for certain. Not that that stops anyone.
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  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxis View Post
    Someone really needs to study how company's like Blizzard and even Apple manage to create this feeling of "fanboyism". I mean imagine developing a customer base where you can almost do no wrong and people will buy what ever you make just because you made it.

    Not only that but your consumers will actively go out and defend those decision, voluntarily and sometimes almost obsessively to any detractors.

    Really it boggles my mind; your right Hueh its almost akin to faith.
    What's actually MORE boggling is when someone holds their opinion in such high regard that they can't possibly fathom that someone really, truly enjoys playing a game that someone else finds poorly done. It's like, how is it POSSIBLE for someone to disagree with that person when they know they're the arbiter of good taste and all that is right?

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    The "Cult of the Anti-Blizzard" makes as much if not more noise than the "Fanboys of Azeroth". Neither side covers itself in glory in this regard. It really is striking how many people who have left and apparently hate the game hang around to post on forums. Not to mention their constant marveling at the idea that people that visit fan web sites might be actual fans. So too with the cash shop. There's potential for good and bad things but not really enough is known about it to say anything for certain. Not that that stops anyone.
    From an objective standpoint, as a gamer, I find what blizzard is doing (their entire philosophy when it comes to design) disgusting and disingenuous. Posting about that, and the reason why, is just as reasonable to do (if not more so) then blindly praising every decision, or worse off, going out of the way to make up excuses for their practices.

    Doesn't make us haters for spreading the truth.

  10. #570
    Mechagnome Hexotic's Avatar
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    for all we know, they are just making it possible for us to access the store in game to buy mounts and stuff.

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexotic View Post
    for all we know, they are just making it possible for us to access the store in game to buy mounts and stuff.
    Maybe for all you know. The rest of us are better informed.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    The discussion has been very on topic, apart from your attempts to rile people up by calling them poor, uneducated and children.
    There you go again bro with your jabs directed to me. You really need to grow up and stop hating your life. If you come to NY, I could hire you as an assistant. Look me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    If they can't spend time on progressing in a fair setting like everyone else that pays a sub fee then they should look for another game.
    You should not dictate what people with money should or should not do, you can read my previous post if you forgot where that road ended up. Unless you have anything of value to add, you should just jump on another thread.


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  13. #573
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    From an objective standpoint, as a gamer, I find what blizzard is doing (their entire philosophy when it comes to design) disgusting and disingenuous. Posting about that, and the reason why, is just as reasonable to do (if not more so) then blindly praising every decision, or worse off, going out of the way to make up excuses for their practices.

    Doesn't make us haters for spreading the truth.
    Everything in your reply was subjective, not objective and it's well to keep in mind that your truth is someone else's opinion. In fact reading your post carefully everything else in the sentence after the words 'I find' is purely opinion.

    People can make up their own minds about whether someone is a hater or not although I'm not wild about people who carelessly label people either fanboy or hater thoughtlessly. In fact, I didn't call anyone a hater. I simply observed the hypocrisy in to accusing the 'fanboys' of being a cult when some of those very same people make hundreds of posts about a game they no longer play or even have any use for. Obsession goes both ways.

    Speaks for itself really. I've seen a tremendous amount of stuff that is simply stupid at this point since Monday's announcement about the impending cash shop for Korea now and probably everywhere else at some future point, distant or otherwise. It's been ill-informed, misinformed, or completely uninformed. That's fine for an opinion stated as such. It's less fine when people pretend it's either 'fact' or 'truth'.
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  14. #574
    Well considering Asia is on a different payment set as ours (they pay hourly I believe I read) the catch up to other people in terms of coins and levels takes longer. Honestly I don't see a problem with a store. The pet store is awesome, but it is by no means mandatory. I've bought a couple of the pet store pets and mounts. I doubt this will even make it to NA honestly.

  15. #575
    They just opened a can of worms, which may lead to other things to come in the future just like he effects tpaid faction change.

    And people should know that the only players in Asia who would have a pay by hour model is Korea, China and/or Taiwan. Everyone else in Asia mostly plays on US servers

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    stop thinking of them as consumers; they dont behave like consumers do in any other area of life. if you think of them as cult members, the behaviour starts to make a lot more sense.
    A few years ago I would have taken offence to this. Now, it really hits home in a funny yet tragic way.

  17. #577
    Most if not all of those objecting to any sort of "cash shop" appear to live in a bizarre world where only two types of payment models can exist, F2P or P2P. I'm sorry, Blizzard is their own company and adding a cash shop an mixing the sacred two payment models is nothing to get upset about. If you don't like it, don't play. I really just do not care if people can buy 100% exp for leveling toons (after the first at least) or anything that is not gear/raiding or PVP mounts and or titles. Anything cosmetic or nonimportant like exp boosting (after first character) really just doesn't matter.

  18. #578
    I really hope they are moving towards a free to play model... I love all of the pets in the pet store and I would buy a mount too, but I will NOT pay for an in game cosmetic item on top of a $15/month subscription fee.

    I'm sure I am not the only person that would be more willing to pay for their store items if there was not a $15/month fee. I guess I got a little OT, but I was just trying to say that I hope this doesn't reach US/EU servers without some kind of change as to how you pay to play the game.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by mmoscreenshotproof View Post
    Most if not all of those objecting to any sort of "cash shop" appear to live in a bizarre world where only two types of payment models can exist, F2P or P2P. I'm sorry, Blizzard is their own company and adding a cash shop an mixing the sacred two payment models is nothing to get upset about.
    Most people live in real world, where they already have too much greedy structures trying to milk them down. Attempting to milk people for cash in game, which is already being paid for, is such a low move, and must be frowned upon.
    Honestly I don't see a problem with a store. The pet store is awesome, but it is by no means mandatory.
    Playing game isn't mandatory too. You will see the truth behind these words when in-game cash-shop with new items will go live. Even if it will be only in Asia, you think paying per hour and paying on top of that to get most out of hour will make people happy? Of course they will decide that cash-shop isn't "mandatory" as well as the game.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxis View Post
    Not only that but your consumers will actively go out and defend those decision, voluntarily and sometimes almost obsessively to any detractors.
    Add-on to the point of blaming other players for Blizzards poor design decisions, than again they have issues with accepting their own mistakes and tend to blame others.


    In-game shops are there to decrease the barrier between the user and their wallet. Clicking a button in-game and having the option of buying that item right then and there is far more likely to grab a sale than a player having to open up a browser, log-in, select an item, and place in payment information. To spend development time on an in-game cash shop that has to sync with the other databases shows that Blizzard is looking at this to be a long term investment that involves an increase in products available for purchase. A number of features we see are laying the foundation to not only deal with further subscriber loss but to also ready the game for F2P. F2P is not going to happen in the next expansion and a number of things will have to change about the game in order to accommodate the model, but the developers will certain look for ways of introducing the idea of such systems into the player base early and there could likely be many more cosmetic items offered along with boosts. Asia will lead the way.

    I just hope Blizzard doesnt do the premium member bull shit which is basically a subscription that gives you queue priority and some other perks. I still think subscription based game should have no cash only exclusive rewards or boosts.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-07-11 at 07:16 AM.

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