That said attunements while I hated them as a raid leader I enjoyed them when I did them first time around on a character. I would love an optional attunement quest chain with a reward at the end
I dont know if its still there but I remember not being able to take the new guild healer into ToES because they had not cleared Shek'Zeer in LFR or normal first. Thats the only current attunement that I know of.
It's just a wishy washy situation when you bring in the amount of people doing something as a dictator of quality.
Also, you said its the old mindset of wow- yes, it is just that - OLD. Times change and we need to adapt. Game adapted and I did. If someone will not adapt, he will just rage and qq, just like in irl.
I don't scream about not wanting to pay school taxes because I don't have children and then benefit from an educated society by driving over bridges, paved roads and shopping in stores and businesses created by people with a public education.
The fact that if ur honest u will admit that on your own realm u have noticed that all the well-established guilds from back in the day, most (if not all) have folded and disappeared.
I can even cite the documentary "Race to World first" which is set in cata and based around Blood Legion who clearly state on the record that they have noticed a huge drop off in skilled available players.
LFR may have been originally opened to help players get into raiding but in reality its hindered raiding guilds. Very obviously so.
Ru really trying to tell me that LFR teaches new players anything about real guild raiding whatsoever? ofc not. No raid leader, no tactics, minimal wiping, no vent. Theyre actually worlds apart. New players to Wow will learn absolutely nothing at all about what will be expected from them when they join a raiding guild.
Raiding guilds are shouting very loudly that LFR players r either not bothering to step up to raiding or the ones who do r totally clueless, or just bad.
Im sure there are some very nice stories of some great players moving up but that the exception not the norm...
Ask ANY guild thats raiding how many players theyve recruited from LFR... then u will see for yourself.
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While there may be a small number of players who once upon a time raided normal (in Wrath) and who now do only LFR, the great majority of players who do only LFR have not done organized raiding at all otherwise, aside from the occasional pug or earlier-tier guild run.
The decline in Cataclysm was stopped for half a year after LFR was added, and I think a lot of that was people returning now that they weren't being excluded. Exclude them again and they will leave again.
Well, shock horror, your definition is wrong. Raiding is any group of more than 5 people in a PvE environment. That's it.My definition of "raiding" is guilds who are raiding in Normal or Heroic. LFR is not part of the "raiding scene".
Top guilds said they noticed a drop off of skilled players. Nothing about LFR. (And, to be a "skilled player", I apparently need to have been raiding for 3 xpacs heroic current content. So how the fuck is a new player to the game meant to be "skilled" if they don't even get a chance to start?)
Find me a guild that went into LFR to actively look for new players.Ask ANY guild thats raiding how many players theyve recruited from LFR... then u will see for yourself.
Anyway, now I'm finally home and have time to type, here's something to think about:
If LFR is the reason why many people aren't normal raiding now, that must mean they find normal raiding worse than LFR. Why is that do you wonder?
I know why it is for me: The ratio of good guilds compared to drama, people hopping, overly entitled twits who want to control everything, angsty teenagers etc etc is appalling. There is so much unbelievable drama and elitism in, shall I say, "entry level" normal-mode guilds, that I don't blame people for going "sod this."
"Oh, but get some experience in these and you can then join any guild!"
True, true.. except, why the hell would I want to bother with all that crap when I'm here to have fun playing a game. If I need to join guilds where it's full of drama or abusive RLs, then I won't want any part of your "raiding scene", and I'll be glad for you all to moan how no one wants to play with you.
Last edited by TyrantWave; 2013-07-10 at 05:35 PM.
Those guilds are top level guilds. They might see a drop in potential candidates but in all honesty hard to figure out why so few people are applying to them. (I know paragon limits it to their country so thats one possible reason).
I am honest and the guilds I were in folded before LFR was even a wet dream. Vanilla our guild folded prior to TBC launch a new guild formed in TBC we folded shortly at the end of Wrath well before LFR came into it. Guilds rise and fall since forever.
Where did I say LFR teaches people about guild raiding? not once have I said this. It introduces you to raiding yes (a very easy form of raiding) The average player in LFr might not be that skilled as there are simply SO many more people raiding there you are bound to find the less skilled players.
You use anecdotal evidence as 100% truth. No doubt some guilds may be affected but with out raw numbers on whos doing what its just opinion. Don't get me wrong LFR has its faults but its not the raid killer. The amount of people doing heroic raiding has always been low. Has it gotten lower? probably but its not going to be massively due to LFR.
The OP of this very thread for example maybe?
And the large number of players who on this very thread have clearly siad they have done the same.
The amount of players who have stepped down from raiding guilds and now just play around in LFR is probably a large and significant number of players. Hence my point that LFR may well have been setup to help raiding but in reality its done the opposite.
And As I have told you before your interpretation of a bad player varies, You fulfill my interpretation of a baddie very adequately.