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  1. #341
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    Quit before 4.3 was released... got a 10 day trial when the patch hit and tested it. I didn't even know that it was alot easier, I just thought the game became stupidly easy. I don't hate LFR because it's quick, I hate it because it's a lower difficulty. Why make the content as easy as possible? It's like getting a new video game and just setting it on the easiest setting so that you can grow through it as quick as possible. Since when has rushing through something been the most fun way to enjoy it? All you end up doing is redoing that same content w/ no challenge. The reason I loved heroic was because it offered a challenge that wasn't easy to beat. Maybe people just want the easy route and have never wanted to work for something, but I come from a competitive athletic background and winning was always my goal. I didn't get any joy out of beating bad teams 13-0, but beating a great team in penalty kicks or a late game goal... those were the game I lived for... so when it came to WoW, why bother wasting my time on easy content when I can challenge myself and feel more accomplished? I'm supposed to be a hero in the game, so do heroes take the easy route or do they keep their head up and tackle the difficult content head on? You decide.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Where did I say LFR teaches people about guild raiding? not once have I said this. It introduces you to raiding yes (a very easy form of raiding) The average player in LFr might not be that skilled as there are simply SO many more people raiding there you are bound to find the less skilled players.
    U said that LFR is helping raiding guilds, im showing u that it isnt.

    Its a part of Wow that is in direct competition for players against raiding guilds. It does more harm than good for Raiding guilds.

    Ok, if raiding guilds were all doing so well then why are they all saying they have the same problems with recruitment? Why r raiding guilds closing more frequently now than ever before?


    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Those guilds are top level guilds. They might see a drop in potential candidates but in all honesty hard to figure out why so few people are applying to them.
    Normal raiding guilds supplies players to the Top raiding guilds... if your Normal raiding guilds r starved of players then by default there are fewer players skilled enough to step up to top level raiding. They are intertwined at a cellular level.

    Im using the 'Top guilds' as proof theres an issue because theyre the ones who people actually listen to when they make public statements. And most have pretty much stated their recruitment has gone to shit so theyre downsizing to 10mans. Im sure there are many Normal raiding guilds complaining their recruitment has gone to shit also, but their comments r lost in these forums.

  3. #343
    LFR is an interactive Youtube video of a raid.

  4. #344
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    My definition of "raiding" is guilds who are raiding in Normal or Heroic. LFR is not part of the "raiding scene".

    LFR may have been originally opened to help players get into raiding but in reality its hindered raiding guilds. Very obviously so.

    Ru really trying to tell me that LFR teaches new players anything about real guild raiding whatsoever? ofc not. No raid leader, no tactics, minimal wiping, no vent. Theyre actually worlds apart. New players to Wow will learn absolutely nothing at all about what will be expected from them when they join a raiding guild.

    Raiding guilds are shouting very loudly that LFR players r either not bothering to step up to raiding or the ones who do r totally clueless, or just bad.

    Im sure there are some very nice stories of some great players moving up but that the exception not the norm...

    Ask ANY guild thats raiding how many players theyve recruited from LFR... then u will see for yourself.
    Your definition of a raiding is only your opinion and you must accept other people might have a difference of opinion (although I refer to Normal/Heroic as raiding and LFR as LFR but the actual definition of raiding is content for a PVE group of more than 5).

    As for LFR not translating into normal, last Sunday I did a normal raid for the first time (if you don't count Tol Barad or soloing older content) with a group of players that haven't raided in years or have never raided and we were successful because of LFR. We did the first 4 bosses in MV in about 2hrs and one shot 2 of the bosses, the only one that gave us any real difficulty was the stone guard. Our ilvls where anywhere from 480-500 so we out geared the instance but we only had to learn the mechanics that weren't in the LFR because we already knew the mechanics that were in the LFR.

    I even tanked and I have very little tanking experience in my life, but I queued up to MV in LFR to get a feel for it, a couple hours before we did normal and I could get the feel for the debuffs to watch for and when to tank swap (note I had never tanked in a MOP LFR and only once in the Cata LFR).



    Before LFR where do you think people learned to actually raid? Do you seriously think they learned to raid in LFD?

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantWave View Post
    You say it hasn't helped raiding, I say it's done raiding a massive service. Are normal mode, elitist filled raiding guilds dying out? You betcha! And it's great.
    And i highlight this kind of hatred towards Raiders as being a significant part of why so many of us have left Wow altogether. The game is working against us and the community too.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Agreed Osmeric...

    The OP of this very thread for example maybe?

    And the large number of players who on this very thread have clearly siad they have done the same.

    The amount of players who have stepped down from raiding guilds and now just play around in LFR is probably a large and significant number of players. Hence my point that LFR may well have been setup to help raiding but in reality its done the opposite.
    Happy players dont complain about LFR affecting Raid Guilds, ever notice that? The amount of 'large number of players who on this very thread have clearly siad they have done the same' is infintessimal when compared to the power of the forc..... er the amount of happy players who dont even go to mmochampions to use these forums.

    That being said just because people bitch and whine on a forum does not actually mean a lot of people are bitching and complaining. I think if you read this whole thread again you will find between 6 and a dozen people who just repeat their crying over and over again. Its like wack a mole, yes hundreds of times you wack mole sin the head but if you pay attention its the same dozen wack-amoles popping up again and again.

    You keep using this stupid argument that since people complain its obviously a problem, its only a problem because they support your viewpoint. Nothing more.

  7. #347
    The Lightbringer foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    You might as well check youtube vids of the fights, that's about the same experience as LFR and you get to see all content.
    This is basically it. Not trying to be snobby or an elitist but LFR is so braindead easy and ungratifying that you may as well just watch someone else do it to say that you've "seen all the content". In fact, some people do. LFR can be afk'd through easily.
    Look! Words!

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    And i highlight this kind of hatred towards Raiders as being a significant part of why so many of us have left Wow altogether. The game is working against us and the community too.
    It doesn't highlight hate towards Raiders, it highlights hatred towards elitists. Elistists who don't feel special unless they are the 10% able to see content and then feel it gives them the right to lord it over others. I'm a raider and *I* hope elitists take a hike and find another game to play.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    My argument is 'There are millions of reasons why millions of people left' .
    Well i can bet u my house that Blizzard do not take this position at all.

    Its bullcrap of the highest order to try to insinuate that every individual who unsubbed from Wow did it for a totally unique reason. There will most definitely be a common factor, or factors, which can be highlighted to why so many players unsubbed. Its these commonalities which Blizzard will know and theyll be working on addressing.

    It works in exactly the same way to define exactly why players stay in the game too.

    Ofc its open to discussion and argument as to why us forum-users think r the reasons, which explains why we r here in the first place right

  10. #350
    If you only raid LFR and never set foot in normal raids, you dont know what raiding is at all.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    It doesn't highlight hat towards Raiders, it highlights hatred towards elitists. Elistists who don't feel special unless they are the 10% able to see content and then feel it gives them the right to lord it over others. I'm a raider and *I* hope elitists take a hike and find another game to play.
    Ru really trying to tell me that they are discussed seperately? bullcrap.

    The sweeping generalisation that achievers in Wow r all Elitists and consequently hated runs deep in the current Wow community. These kind of hateful comments r all over these forums.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    The amount of players who have stepped down from raiding guilds and now just play around in LFR is probably a large and significant number of players. Hence my point that LFR may well have been setup to help raiding but in reality its done the opposite.

    LFR helped raiding, because LFR IS raiding.

    LFR didn't save normal mode raiding from the natural consequences of Blizzard's decision to tune up the difficulty of normal mode. I'm really trying to pretend that this upsets me, but I'm failing.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    LFR is an interactive Youtube video of a raid.
    Yes, I look up upcoming raid bosses on Youtube before they are released, are you saying theres a function in game where I can join at any time of day and interactively learn an encounter in a raid like environment? And I can do it with friends? Say, whats this interactive Youtube video called? I coudl sure use something like that to hone my muscle memory and raid preparedness. Does it drop weaker versions of raid gear so I can progress my guild quicker too?

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    The sweeping generalisation that achievers in Wow r all Elitists and consequently hated runs deep in the current Wow community. These kind of hateful comments r all over these forums.
    Just to warn you: given your posting history and tone, I have zero sympathy toward you, or any player with opinions like yours. Is that hateful? Not really, but I'm certainly not on your side.

    Listening to players like yourself, attempting to serve that tiny slice of the player population, led to the disaster that is Cataclysm. If you are finding your game experience collapsing because of consequences of your desires that you did not anticipate, all I can say is you deserved it.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2013-07-10 at 06:03 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    That being said just because people bitch and whine on a forum does not actually mean a lot of people are bitching and complaining. .
    Absolutely correct... but 1.3million ex-Wow players say hi.

    The FACT that such an unprecidented amount of players leaving the game shouts loud and clear there are issues right now at this moment in Wow.

    Its obvious that the psychology of the players who remain will think that the game is fine, i can live with that. But i must stand up against totally misinformed and clueless statements such as ur making.

  16. #356
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    This is basically it. Not trying to be snobby or an elitist but LFR is so braindead easy and ungratifying that you may as well just watch someone else do it to say that you've "seen all the content". In fact, some people do. LFR can be afk'd through easily.
    That is dumb sorry. First of all you can only AFK LFR because people carry you, just like normal and heroic (although heroic I'm sure will be a lot more difficult to carry someone but some people still buy runs so clearly it can happen).

    Second of all, it might be so easy for you that you might as well have watched it but it's not easy for everyone. Groups still fail at Lei Shen, and groups still fail at the maze, so clearly it's not so easy that everyone can sleep through it or that would never happen.

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maniac2 View Post
    Also, you said its the old mindset of wow- yes, it is just that - OLD. Times change and we need to adapt. Game adapted and I did. If someone will not adapt, he will just rage and qq, just like in irl.
    Yeah this is how I feel about it really. I adapted to the new ways the game has become and love every minute of it. I, however, see people who raid at the highest level now as a barrier to the changes of the game because they have an unreasonable amount of influence (or at least like to think they do) and they stamp their little footsies enough that Blizzard might actually take legendaries out of LFR and other nonsense so they can feel better. That's all it is. I think that heroic modes should slowly be phased out or at least stop having better gear and more effort put into making things like Flexiraid and LFR so that more people like me can have fun with them. The sooner the big guilds die off, the sooner people that like them for some reason stop whining they're in decline. Their time is over. The time of the casual is at hand. The casuals are happy. The casuals aren't complaining. Now it's the so-called hardcore raiders that complain. I remember when I was one and the lowly casuals whined and I'd look down at them and tell them too bad. Now the time has changed and the shoe is on the other foot...and the hardcore raiders are mad. It's beautifully ironic.

    Heroic modes should just have transmog gear or gear equal to Normal (and LFR/Flexiraid shoudl have the same ilvl too). That way they can stand out and look better than others without it slowly making the heroic modes easier with more gear as they progress through them. That keeps it purely a matter of skill and status...why do you need better gear? Sure you won't be able to zerg it over and over, you'll have to learn and get better...but again, taht's something hardcore raiders always carry on about. If they want prestige brought back into their achievements, that's a better way than taking gear of any kind away from LFR. I think they're too scared to actually face that kind of challenge though and just want to act cool on forums by mocking LFR players.
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Ru really trying to tell me that they are discussed seperately? bullcrap.

    The sweeping generalisation that achievers in Wow r all Elitists and consequently hated runs deep in the current Wow community. These kind of hateful comments r all over these forums.
    There is a distinct difference between Raiders and Elistists. Raiders Raid, Elistists raid to preen in front of a mailbox and imagine that everyone is slobbering over them and the only way they can reclaim that magic is to shut down everyone else's experience. Don't confuse the two, the elitists is not a desireable path to follow.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Just to warn you: given your posting history and tone, I have zero sympathy toward you, or any player with opinions like yours. Is that hateful? Not really, but I'm certainly not on your side.
    Well FYI i dont care about whose on my side, im all about "syaing it how it is" no matter how painful or upsetting it may be.

    I dont take sides, i discuss issues. I also dont post here for popularity, i post here in the hope that Blizzard take notice and take on board these discussions. I Love Wow, always have and always will. I just hope Wow can get its act together and become great again. Obviously my opinions wont be the same as everyone, but i know theyre the same as a significant and large amount of people.

  20. #360
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Absolutely correct... but 1.3million ex-Wow players say hi.

    The FACT that such an unprecidented amount of players leaving the game shouts loud and clear there are issues right now at this moment in Wow.

    Its obvious that the psychology of the players who remain will think that the game is fine, i can live with that. But i must stand up against totally misinformed and clueless statements such as ur making.
    Maybe it's because of; Monks, Pandas, Asian themed, the manta, LFR, lack of 5 mans, the dailies, world bosses, pet battles, BMAH, brawlers guild, operation shield wall, charms, etc.etc.etc...

    How do you know it's only LFR? There have been a lot of new things.

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