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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasjar View Post
    Its really sad to see just how much the current wow playerbase hate on others becaues of their enjoyments...

    Im guessing u were someone who.... have a hard time understand that not everyone enjoy the same as you, oh well.
    ???

    I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol

  2. #402
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    We don't have to,
    -Study our class extensively for optimal performance,
    -Study each fight for optimal performance,
    -Try to orchestrate our optimal rotation in a stressful progress environment,
    -Wipe for hours to kill a single boss for some reason(yaay so fun),
    -Try to not fail on memorizing/reaching/assigning keybinds for each of your main characters,
    -Work extensively to perform decent while still being able to pay attention to boss mechanics, without all that "friends are depending on my performance to not wipe for another hour" stress,
    -Level x number of professions or do other forms of extremely boring stuff(such as dailies) to get more gold to spend on enchants, gems, flasks, pots or gear that gets changed constantly as you get better drops,
    -Get into arguements over numbers, such as dps or healing meters,

    to experience the content now.

    As I said before, this might be easy, monotonous for experienced gamers; but I always have a hard time to explain to them that this whole raiding ritual is no where near "fun" for a casual gamer, or an inexperienced player who has no intention/time to get to your level of experience, it is tiresome and stressful for the majority of the player base. As a gamer(I love this great hobby), I can say that World of Warcraft is way too harder than a single player fantasy game, and I, we, love playing both. But I cannot sacrifice my time and I don't have the interest to adjust to damn video game I pay to play every month, it has to adjust to me, if my views are shared by most of its target audience. Considering LFR, LFD, new talent system etc, I can safely say that they are vastly shared.

    We get in, we see the story, we get some improvements on our gear and we get out. All of it takes a very little time, and LFR keeps the thrill of "Just drop that awesome axe already" well, it does a very good job at it. Long story short, LFR is pretty awesome, Flex system also sounds awesome, and I hope they stay that way.
    I swear not ALL but a huge majjority of lfr pro players must h ave had a run in with a bad experience raiding at some time. I get this vibe from you. How unfortunate. Also all your points is really just the same thing repeated. /clap

    I must say though LFR fits a large portion of it's demographic perfectly.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post
    Don't get mad. You're participating in a discussion you have no business being in. You could say my opinion on heroic guilds is invalid... If I hadn't been in one, bit I have. Have you not been in a heroic guild? Have you only raided LFR. Yeah... Didn't think so. So don't sit here and bitch about heroic guilds getting bad wraps for being asshols because guess what? You're acting like an asshole. Asshole.
    LOL....are you in an elite guild now? NO? why not? I raid lfr, I go there to help others finish in a timely fashion. I go all out and never afk? that sound like an asshole to you? You have no idea what you are talking about. A moron with lips who feels he knows anything and everything? Gain some knowledge, type to me in a few years when you get older. got it? or does it need spelled out better?

    Do I need to LFR this paragraph down for you?


    LMFAO now that there is funny

    Flaming is not tolerated here
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-07-10 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If you can read you would note that I am a Raider and I am not an elitist. Elitists are making a bad name for the rest of us who really don't care who does what with the content. Someone doing easy content for subpar rewards in LFR doesn't effect my game or my guilds progress. If anything them buying more gems and enchants just makes me richer.
    Well u must have me confused with someone else cos i havent said a single word about removing LFR. I positively encourage it to exist within the game, its popular and definitely has a place in Wow.

    My issue is that it needs to be redesigned within the game because its clearly breaking the game in various ways. A redesign with better goals and understanding by Blizzard in exactly what LFR is. Because right now i dont think they know what the fukk theyre doing with it.

    Ur sir r making far too many assumptions without reading what i actually write.

    PS its easy to say ur not an elitist but i think others on this thread would totally disagree judging by your arrogant and condescending approach to posting.
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-07-10 at 07:42 PM.

  5. #405
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    made up numbers? ru for real?

    How exactly are 1.3million players unsubbing in 1 quarter 'made up'?

    Please explain that to me cos im pretty sure Blizzards accountants would like to know how u know its wrong.
    One reason for unsub is because the experience is so watered down and demeaning now. As opposed to the casual player doing quality huge amounts of 5 mans and Kara in TBC they are subjected to LFR of today. How unfortunate. One is gratifying gameplay the other is cinematic mode.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasjar View Post
    Its really sad to see just how much the current wow playerbase hate on others becaues of their enjoyments...

    Im guessing u were someone who.... have a hard time understand that not everyone enjoy the same as you, oh well.
    In a world where each thing is separate and has absolutely no impact on other features in the game with infinite development resources you might not see any complaints. Just like how blance change in PVE can have an impact on PVP despite them being so different from each other, the existence of LFR has created shifts in the game that impact even those who dont participate in raiding content.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    I never said 1.3mill left due to LFR... i suggest u go back and read it properly lol

    To remind u the exchange >>>



    my reply...



    To summarise...

    Deadman makes a general point that there r hardly anyone bitching and complaining about the current state of the game.

    I reminded him that players r leaving at an alarming rate.
    You exist in a disjointed reality where up is down and down is up.

    1) People leave the game for many many reasons.
    2) The alarming rate was a huge majority of Asian subscirptions WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LFR AND A LOT TO DO WITH THEIR CULTURE.
    3) You are making a disconcerting leap between 'people are complaining about LFR' and 'Lots of people are leaving Wow'. Its a fact that only a minor slice of players ever come to MMO champion, by very definition thats 'Hardly anyone' no matter what side of the argument of LFR you stand on.
    4) You don't know what the majority is, nor do I. Blizzard does and that number says LFR is working as intended and its going to stay in the game.

    Your 'logic' leap that 1.3 million people left the game and people complain on MMO champion is astounding mostly because you feel the need to bash your forehead on these forums over and over again, presenting the same flawed argument adnauseum.

  8. #408
    Bloodsail Admiral dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Well u must have me confused with someone else cos i havent said a single word about removing LFR. I positively encourage it to exist within the game, its popular and definitely has a place in Wow.

    My issue is that it needs to be redesigned within the game because its clearly breaking the game in various ways. A redesign with better goals and understanding by Blizzard in exactly what LFR is. Because right now i dont think they know what the fukk theyre doing with it.

    Ur sir r making far too many assumptions without reading what i actually write.
    You have to remember that LFR is new. It's been here since what 4.3. They obviously need time to work at it but they have the best MMO on the market hands down because clearly they know what they are doing or at the very least aren't afraid of changing their mistakes.

    How would you redesign it anyways and remember to think like a designer (ie you can't remove the gear or no one will run it and queue times would be in the days not hours)?
    Last edited by dryankem; 2013-07-10 at 07:46 PM.

  9. #409
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post
    So let me get this right... You're a guild leader of heroic progression guild who hasn't had open recruitment in quite some time. Hey buddy, you're the 1% in WoW. You have no clue why people prefer LFR over raid guilds. It does not apply to you, at all. You really should stop trying to express your invalid opinion about something you're not even participating in and that has zero effect on you.
    Hes not the 1% because recruitment never ends. So...

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    In a world where each thing is separate and has absolutely no impact on other features in the game with infinite development resources you might not see any complaints. Just like how blance change in PVE can have an impact on PVP despite them being so different from each other, the existence of LFR has created shifts in the game that impact even those who dont participate in raiding content.
    While what you are saying is true, im not denying that, and its not the only place where one part of the game made/make another part worse, but my point was simple to the people that hate on lfr just because its cool, like the dude i quoted.
    Because franky most people here on these forums, any forums for that matter that whine over lfr, is just doing it because its "what everyone is doing so i must do so too!" without giving any real reason behind their hate.
    Last edited by Rasjar; 2013-07-10 at 07:50 PM.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol
    Well why didn't you say so sooner? I could of pulled out the Forum Ghost scroll sooner! At least I can stop taking you seriously now and chaulk it all up to you being bored and needing to keep your brain busy while dwelling on how you were wronged in your past life and you want to spend your free time moaning and screeching about it while the rest of us are just trying to get on with their lives.

    Look, if you don't enjoy something I applaud your choice to not do it anymore but you really need to make a break away from that which you don't enjoy anymore and that includes arguing with strangers on unofficial forums. Dwelling on that which you no longer enjoy isn't healthy.

    I use to belong in a Game workshop guild that would be the same as a wow world first raid guild. We would travel the east coast and win the majority of the tournaments, It was a hobby that I was heavily invested in for over a decade but eventually I burned out on it when the company that I supported with money and time decided to use my wallet as a condom on me and nerfed all my old models and replaced them with new better models that I would be force to buy all over again just to stay competetive in an attempt to make me pay more money. I said, "Thats enough! I'm out!" and I quit cold turkey.

    I use to argue tactics on a GW forum and talk about the game but since I went cold turkey I decided I wouldn't waste my time cauterwaling about how I had been wronged in my past life to people who were still trying to enjoy the game. I went off and found something else that I could enjoy and spend my time on and I am a much happier person because of it. You can't be happy by dwelling on something you decided you don't want to do anymore. Go find something you enjoy and discuss it on those forums, follow the light.... follow the light... its okay!

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    3) You are making a disconcerting leap between 'people are complaining about LFR' and 'Lots of people are leaving Wow'. Its a fact that only a minor slice of players ever come to MMO champion, by very definition thats 'Hardly anyone' no matter what side of the argument of LFR you stand on.
    Deadman u cannot change what u originally wrote... u were making GENERAL judgments on players in Wow, not LFR.

    heres your post>>>

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    That being said just because people bitch and whine on a forum does not actually mean a lot of people are bitching and complaining. I think if you read this whole thread again you will find between 6 and a dozen people who just repeat their crying over and over again. Its like wack a mole, yes hundreds of times you wack mole sin the head but if you pay attention its the same dozen wack-amoles popping up again and again.

    You keep using this stupid argument that since people complain its obviously a problem, its only a problem because they support your viewpoint. Nothing more.
    ur CLEARLY making generalisations about people who complain on the forums and how theyre a minority... it had nothing to do with LFR, u werent discussing LFR and therefore my response was nothing to do with LFR.

    Therefore my response was reminding u that the massive drop in subs is a reminder that everything is not fine, there are problems.

    Your attempt to change your standpoint is pitiful dude.

    However, to address your other points...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    1) People leave the game for many many reasons.
    Agreed, but some reasons for unsubbing r more common than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    2) The alarming rate was a huge majority of Asian subscirptions WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LFR AND A LOT TO DO WITH THEIR CULTURE.
    Errrm Kotick himself said that subs will defintiely drop alot more before the end of the year, a shareholder warning. ALso the language used did not say anything about a 'huge majority' of sub losses being in Asia. The exact wording is>>>

    " although the game saw declines of approximately 1.3 million subscribers, mainly from the East, but in the West as well"

    Where is that word HUGE???

    It says 'mainly' but also in the West... such language followed by a clear statement that subs will definitely drop even more demonstrates loud and clear that subs r in decline. No matter how u want to try to hide that fact it wont go away. And dont kid yourself into thinking that EU and US Wow is going along fine... it isnt. There are problems and thats why so many players r leaving.
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-07-10 at 08:04 PM.

  13. #413
    Bloodsail Admiral dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol
    If you quit last year then your opinion is coming strictly from forum posts. Note, it's not a good source of info, too many vocal whiners.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasjar View Post
    While what you are saying is true, im not denying that, and its not the only place where one part of the game made/make another part worse, but my point was simple to the people that hate on lfr just because its cool, like the dude i quoted.
    Because franky most people here on these forums, any forums for that matter that whine over lfr, is just doing it because its "what everyone is doing so i must do so too!" without giving any real reason behind their hate.
    I dont think they do it to be cool, I think they truly believe what they say. It doesn't mean they are right though and I am going to defend LFR because I personally enjoy it and I use it to advance my Raid Guilds Progression. I can argue my side and they are welcome to argue their side. If you assume they are doing it to be cool and fit in then you are underestimating them.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    I quit Wow last year... so your point makes no sense... it sounds like u have me confused with someone else lol
    If you quit WoW last year, why are you here talking about current events in WoW?


    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    LOL....are you in an elite guild now? NO? why not? I raid lfr, I go there to help others finish in a timely fashion. I go all out and never afk? that sound like an asshole to you? You have no idea what you are talking about. A moron with lips who feels he knows anything and everything? Gain some knowledge, type to me in a few years when you get older. got it? or does it need spelled out better?

    Do I need to LFR this paragraph down for you?


    LMFAO now that there is funny
    Yeah, you're an asshole.


    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Hes not the 1% because recruitment never ends. So...
    Your comment makes zero sense, but that's ok because I wasn't addressing you in the first place. Hurp de derpy de durp.
    Armory
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

  16. #416
    lol this guy just has no clue, I love rambling with no sense of realism or knowledge

    btw I am a smartass, not an asshole but you continue to generalize and try to demean...see folks this here is a guy who is calling names treating someone like garbage.....and just a reminder just because i am in an "elitest" guild as raid leader and gm I am supposed to be the asshole.

    See a problem here anyone else?

    This guy alone shows that assholes arent in elitest guilds only, they are filled in lfr too? you cant escape them. Just because you are an asshole in an lfr and not an elitest guild doesn't make you a better asshole. or a lesser asshole...
    Last edited by pallyopness; 2013-07-10 at 08:08 PM.

  17. #417
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    There are many threads about it on these very forums. Loads of well-established and experienced guilds and players have noted the severe lack of skilled players around. Thier apps system has all but ground to a halt. Top guilds like Paragon dropping from 25man to 10man and stating clearly that its due to the lack of skilled players available. Since then dozens of other top guilds have done the same.

    The fact that if ur honest u will admit that on your own realm u have noticed that all the well-established guilds from back in the day, most (if not all) have folded and disappeared.

    I can even cite the documentary "Race to World first" which is set in cata and based around Blood Legion who clearly state on the record that they have noticed a huge drop off in skilled available players.






    My definition of "raiding" is guilds who are raiding in Normal or Heroic. LFR is not part of the "raiding scene".

    LFR may have been originally opened to help players get into raiding but in reality its hindered raiding guilds. Very obviously so.

    Ru really trying to tell me that LFR teaches new players anything about real guild raiding whatsoever? ofc not. No raid leader, no tactics, minimal wiping, no vent. Theyre actually worlds apart. New players to Wow will learn absolutely nothing at all about what will be expected from them when they join a raiding guild.

    Raiding guilds are shouting very loudly that LFR players r either not bothering to step up to raiding or the ones who do r totally clueless, or just bad.

    Im sure there are some very nice stories of some great players moving up but that the exception not the norm...

    Ask ANY guild thats raiding how many players theyve recruited from LFR... then u will see for yourself.
    The problem is, in my opinion, is that raids (Normal raids and above, I mean) are made for raiders. People who are already raiding, have been raiding, or have that mindset. It's exclusionary by very design, and that's the real problem, more than anything. Not so much LFR (and it has it's part, but it's not as big as people claim it to be, in comparison to this.)

    There's no real stepping off point to go from one to the other. The system is not a fit for the current gaming landscape, and it's inherently doomed to failure. It's a niche activity, done by a niche amount of people, that wants more people to be doing it, but basically is abhorrent of any real logical solution, and unwilling to adapt to the changing landscape, COUPLED with Blizzard making absolutely bizarre design decisions. At least that's what I think. You take LFR away, it's not going to magically increase things. You go a time and imagine if there never was a LFR, it's not magically going to make things better either.

    I don't even know what some people, like Seefer, think the solution is. It's not taking things away, it's trying to come up with ways to better train the player base.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Deadman u cannot change what u originally wrote... u were making GENERAL judgments on players in Wow, not LFR.

    heres your post>>>



    ur CLEARLY making generalisations about people who complain on the forums and how theyre a minority... it had nothing to do with LFR, u werent discussing LFR and therefore my response was nothing to do with LFR.

    Therefore my response was reminding u that the massive drop in subs is a reminder that everything is not fine, there are problems.

    Your attempt to change your standpoint is pitiful dude.

    However, to address your other points...



    Agreed, but some reasons for unsubbing r more common than others.



    Errrm Kotick himself said that subs will defintiely drop alot more before the end of the year, a shareholder warning. ALso the language used did not say anything about a 'huge majority' of sub losses being in Asia. The exact wording is>>>

    " although the game saw declines of approximately 1.3 million subscribers, mainly from the East, but in the West as well"

    Where is that word HUGE???

    It says 'mainly' but also in the West... such language followed by a clear statement that subs will definitely drop even more demonstrates loud and clear that subs r in decline. No matter how u want to try to hide that fact it wont go away. And dont kid yourself into thinking that EU and US Wow is going along fine... it isnt. There are problems and thats why so many players r leaving.
    mainly from the East

    Really now you are just arguing what the meaning of 'Is' is. I'm having a hard time taking you seriously anymore. -_-

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    *snip* follow the light... its okay!
    And u say ur not in the elitist category after such pointless and childish abuse?

    U cleary never read my posts fully because ive said MANY times why i still frequent these forums, and funnily enough its the same as the hundreds of others who have quit and still post here. We care about the game.

    Your bad and obnoxious attitude towards fellow wowfans is a clear advert for how this community has become toxic and nasty... ru surprised people r leaving when such toxicity has diseased this once friendly community?

  20. #420
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I left in early Cataclysm, and came back only because LFR was being added (although I didn't use it until MoP).

    The decline in Cataclysm was stopped for half a year after LFR was added, and I think a lot of that was people returning now that they weren't being excluded. Exclude them again and they will leave again.
    I'm in the same boat. I left and said I'd never come back unless they added something akin to LFR, and they did, so I did. Without it, I essentially had a worthless endgame. Most people had a worthless endgame without it, and that's the truth most people want to pretend isn't real. Most people didn't go to, and didn't want to go to normals. They just want to play a game :x They could argue that hey! Why are all these millions playing this game then :x I don't know :x I enjoy it, I just hate pointlessly restricted content, but I actually DO like the game.

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