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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazak77 View Post
    Question from me- my guild will be getting into heroics too next week, but we have terrible raid comp-
    tanks- dk, prot pally/warrior
    healers- 2 pallys, disc priest
    dps- 2/3 mages, hunter, dk, lock, rogue

    Many people have alts, but on progression fights we're often running with something like 3 mages, 3 pallys, 2 dk, priest and lock.No AoE healer hurt us the most, but we don't have any good geared (i mean 500+) druid/monk/shammy healer in guild.
    My question is- how hard it will be to do at least first 2 bosses on HC with pally+disc setup? IMO they're good players, we can 2 heal first 5 ToT bosses with no problem, never tried to 2 heal next bosses but i think they will be fine too.
    It's really easy, that's an ok comp for at least the first 4 bosses you are likely to try on hc. Absorbs are king and a disc and holy pala provide them as well as strong raid cooldowns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    We had to 2 heal every fight (Except Ra-den) last week due to setup issues. The only fight you'd want to be careful on is Megaera. Rest of them went pretty smooth.
    World top 200 guilds shouldn't be compared to those just starting heroic progression now. That's just :s

  2. #22
    If your just starting HMs all of the early ones you with kill first are perf 2 heal fights.

    Jin'rokh: 2
    Horridon: 2
    Council: 3 2 healing is very double in the early stage of this fight but they end is healing intensive.
    Tortos: 2
    Ji-kun: 2 Some might say you need 3 but you don't need a healer flying with your main egg team just have 2 study dps fly and your good.
    Megaera: 3 Can and probably the hardest to 2 heal will need Off heals like tranqs, vamp embrace to pull it off with the rampages.
    Durumu: 2
    Primordius: 3 2 healing you healers will need the buffs to help with raid damage.
    Dark Animus: 2
    Iron Qon: 3 Might be the only one where I would 3 heal on progression as it will be your 3rd or 4th HM you take down.
    Twins: 2
    Lei Shen: 2

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skorkin View Post
    If your just starting HMs all of the early ones you with kill first are perf 2 heal fights.
    If you're just starting progression you want to bring maximum amount of healers to any given fight and only scale down once you meet enrage.
    There's exceptions to that rule but they're extremely rare...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    If you're just starting progression you want to bring maximum amount of healers to any given fight and only scale down once you meet enrage.
    There's exceptions to that rule but they're extremely rare...
    Exception is probably Horridon/Durumu where there are "soft" DPS checks (ads not dying quick enough and walls not going down quick enough.) Does Lei shen on 10 only take a week?

  5. #25
    In my opinion, it might work but not with a resto druid. A holy paladin would be much better.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    If you're just starting progression you want to bring maximum amount of healers to any given fight and only scale down once you meet enrage.
    There's exceptions to that rule but they're extremely rare...
    QFT.

    All of these posts saying it's possible to two heal aren't very helpful imo. If you consider the situation the OP is in, I don't think he should expect his group to be easily 2 healing a lot of the fights that are demanding on 2 healer set-ups. "Possible" isn't very comforting when you're wiping repeatedly and seeing little progress.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dole4011 View Post
    QFT.

    All of these posts saying it's possible to two heal aren't very helpful imo. If you consider the situation the OP is in, I don't think he should expect his group to be easily 2 healing a lot of the fights that are demanding on 2 healer set-ups. "Possible" isn't very comforting when you're wiping repeatedly and seeing little progress.
    As a disclaimer, I don't like 3 healing. I find 2 healing more interesting, faster and engaging. I even prefer 2 healing heroic Megaera because fights like that eventually go smoother with 2 when your execution is above average.

    That being said....Agree 100%. If a guild is just starting heroics, your guild should be slightly overgearing. That would lead me to suggest 3 healing for the sake of learning and clearing until execution is better. Margin of error for surviving for more relaxed guilds is going to prove better. Just 2 heal horridon, by the time you're getting to the next mandatory 2 heal fights you're going to overgear them. Same as every tier ever, bring an extra healer, adjust if you hit enrage style mechanics due to insufficient dps.

  8. #28
    Considering we just went 5/13 with our today's kill of Iron Qon (so now we have - in order of first kills - Jin'rokh, Ji-kun, Horridon, Tortos, Iron Qon)
    We do not have a reliable 3rd healer available and the ones we 2-healed Horridon, Tortos and Iron-qon first kills are Holy paladin and Disc priest.
    We are running with a prot pally/prot warrior (dps offspec) setup and have a balance druid that can offheal (not too well though) some less demanding fights...

    I've been wondering - what should we aim for now?
    Council?
    Durumu?
    Primordius?

    1st Iron-Qon kill - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...s=9860&e=10375
    1st Tortos kill (27.06.2012) - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=7991&e=8446

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Dole4011 View Post
    QFT.

    All of these posts saying it's possible to two heal aren't very helpful imo. If you consider the situation the OP is in, I don't think he should expect his group to be easily 2 healing a lot of the fights that are demanding on 2 healer set-ups. "Possible" isn't very comforting when you're wiping repeatedly and seeing little progress.
    I disagree.

    Lets look at Jin'rokh, tortos and Horridon, these will be amongst the first four kills most guilds make.

    Jin'rokh: What kills people? Orbs in the storm phase. You can stack 2 tanks and 8 healers but people will still die if they get hit enough. The way to negate the killer mechanic is to kill the boss before you have too many of these phases, particularly because your room to move becomes smaller each storm phase. Using 2 healers should generally mean 2 storm phases instead of 3 on progression. For this reason I think its clearly better to 2 heal.

    Horridion: What kills people here? Standing in bad, missed interrupts, getting overwhelmed due to lack of dps. Once again, a 3rd healer isn't going to help here, only hinder. Killing stuff faster is the clear winner here. Especially when you start thinking about pink dino's spawning and when the boss gets mad at the end. You prevent unhealable damage by killing the mobs that have the potential to cause it.

    Tortos:
    The case for 2 heals here is less strong, I'll admit it buuuuuut :P
    What kills people on this fight? Missed kicks. Not something a healer can fix. The other big killer is the bats. You deal with this by killing them, you can't bomb heal the tank because a stun is coming and the bats need to be dead or mostly dead by then. The bats are more likely to die with 2 healers instead of 3. Granted theres a decent amount of chaos in this fight so 3 healing it can make it feel more manageable. In the long term this only lets the raid team feel they can get away with standing in bad because it doesn't kill them.

    My short answer is this:
    You should 3 heal fights where the HPS requirement is too high for 2 healers when properly executed. (On progression examples are council and megaera). The other reason to 3 heal fights is because of unpredictable spike damage even when executed correctly to provide a safety net (Iron Qon - having a healer stunned as your group is soaking the fire while a spear and tornado are heading your way)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morghie View Post
    Considering we just went 5/13 with our today's kill of Iron Qon (so now we have - in order of first kills - Jin'rokh, Ji-kun, Horridon, Tortos, Iron Qon)
    We do not have a reliable 3rd healer available and the ones we 2-healed Horridon, Tortos and Iron-qon first kills are Holy paladin and Disc priest.
    We are running with a prot pally/prot warrior (dps offspec) setup and have a balance druid that can offheal (not too well though) some less demanding fights...

    I've been wondering - what should we aim for now?
    Council?
    Durumu?
    Primordius?

    1st Iron-Qon kill - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...s=9860&e=10375
    1st Tortos kill (27.06.2012) - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=7991&e=8446
    Twins. Yes, I'm serious.

    Get the timing of the constellations spot on and execute the other bits well and its not a hard fight. It was our 6th kill and it took us 7 pulls. Council and primordius are 3 heal fights imo and both have a high HPS requirement.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Razecog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Council and primordius are 3 heal fights imo and both have a high HPS requirement.
    Primordius' HPS req depends on which mutations he gets and you can cheese council. Just break Malakk's empowerment before he gets off a second Frostbite and kill him before he gets empowered again.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    Primordius' HPS req depends on which mutations he gets and you can cheese council. Just break Malakk's empowerment before he gets off a second Frostbite and kill him before he gets empowered again.

    That or drop a smokebomb and giggle, or pray to the rng gods.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Razecog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuckels View Post
    That or drop a smokebomb and giggle, or pray to the rng gods.
    That too. Didn't think of it since we don't have a rogue. :P
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  13. #33
    High Overlord Berianther's Avatar
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    If you just killed normal Lei shen this week, while 3 healing most/all normal fights, you probably should stick with 3 healing most fights on heroic.

    Fight that should be 3 healed on progress:
    Council, Megaera, Primordius, Iron Qon (these have rather high hps requirement in part of the fight and may also require other offspec heals)

    Should be 2 healed on progress:
    Jinrokh, Horridon, Tortos, Durumu (low hps requirement for most of the fight and dropping healer enables you skipping certain phases)

    Doesn't really matter 2-3, and 3 healing may make it a little easier to learn fight (for example jikun nest healer, twin drawing):
    Jikun, Dark Animus, Twins, Lei Shen, Ra-den
    Last edited by Berianther; 2013-07-10 at 03:59 AM.

  14. #34
    Sorry to hijack the thread but it's regarding the same topic.

    Our raid runs Pally, Monk, Shaman as our healers. Which one would be the best to switch over to dps?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Minous View Post
    Sorry to hijack the thread but it's regarding the same topic.

    Our raid runs Pally, Monk, Shaman as our healers. Which one would be the best to switch over to dps?
    Regardless of current class balance chances are you're already rolling with 1-3 melee and adding another one will just make your life worse. Couple that with the fact that Ele uses mostly the same gear as Resto (everything except for trinkets) and is relatively easy to play (especially with primal elementalist) - I'd poke your shaman to step up for the role.
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Higgs/advanced

  16. #36
    Mechagnome Devboy's Avatar
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    My guild are 10/13hc, and we two heal most of the fights, but it comes down to how good your healers are.

    Are available healers are, Holy Pala / Resto Druid / Resto sham, and the below fights are what we heal.

    Jin'Rohk - 2 heal
    Horridon - 2 Heal
    Council - 2 Heal
    Tortos - 2 heal
    Megeara - 3 Heal
    Ji Kun - 2 heal
    Durumu - 2 heal
    Primordius - 3 heal
    Dark Animus - 2 heal (current progress)
    Iron Qon - 2 heal
    Twins - 2 heal

  17. #37
    High Overlord Vilbu's Avatar
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    We got the same healing comp (disc+shaman) and it is working out just fine. If we're doing some bosses on normal due to no loot I am solo healing (disc).

  18. #38
    The thing is currently, dps requirements are very very low. The only fight i think wich has a hard enrage timer wich you could possibly hit is Twins. Besides that you can comfortably 3 heal most of the fights without wiping to dps problems.

    From my PoV i would just 3 heal Megaera and primordius on progress. Maybe council depending on your setup. Then again alot of fights depends on your setup. Evaluate it for yourself, and dont take anyone's opinion in an eyeblink. We also 3 healed probably all fights at some point, but now we got to a point where we clear 13/13 hc in 1 day we 2 heal pretty much everything. But that's gonna be irrelevant to your situation.

    1 more thing, after checking your setup. Having no rogue/mage/lock in your team will hamper progression significantly.

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Christan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dole4011 View Post
    QFT.

    All of these posts saying it's possible to two heal aren't very helpful imo. If you consider the situation the OP is in, I don't think he should expect his group to be easily 2 healing a lot of the fights that are demanding on 2 healer set-ups. "Possible" isn't very comforting when you're wiping repeatedly and seeing little progress.
    especially since his healers are used to 3 healing most normal fights, going heroic and down to 2 healers is a huge jump in difficulty for the 2 healers that will be there next week.

    they should try 2 healing normal modes next week, or 3 healing heroics... the jump in difficulty will be to much for healers accustomed to 3 healing reg modes.
    Still I cry, tears like pouring rain, Innocent is my lurid pain.

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