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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Warwulf View Post
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...nd-discussion/

    Lore took the time to respond about the WW 5.4 issues.

    /skyisnotfalling
    Prior to 5.2, Ghostcrawler made a lengthy post about monks, saying that they wanted to buff us to be overpowered to increase representation. On 5.2 PTR, monks were top of the line dps, right up there with rogues. Ring of Peace was ridiculous. Things were looking good for the spec. Then, they gutted our damage, nerfed ring of peace, and we spent half a tier as bottom of the barrel damage before we got part of our damage back.

    As I said before, I am not confident that the developers will do a good damage pass on us. They also have yet to address major bugs that have been hurting the class since MoP launch (Xuen, Chi Wave, CJL, etc.)

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggety View Post
    Prior to 5.2, Ghostcrawler made a lengthy post about monks, saying that they wanted to buff us to be overpowered to increase representation. On 5.2 PTR, monks were top of the line dps, right up there with rogues. Ring of Peace was ridiculous. Things were looking good for the spec. Then, they gutted our damage, nerfed ring of peace, and we spent half a tier as bottom of the barrel damage before we got part of our damage back.

    As I said before, I am not confident that the developers will do a good damage pass on us. They also have yet to address major bugs that have been hurting the class since MoP launch (Xuen, Chi Wave, CJL, etc.)
    Exactly this. I don't give a shit if I blue is reading what we are saying and that they see we are voicing our concerns. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. It's the typical death knight syndrome that was demonstrated in the post above me. Monks will start to get buffs and blizzard with cater to the mass qq and nerf us little by little with zero compensation.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Elv on the main forums made an interesting observation. It appears that the new mastery will NOT have a cap; per-say. Instead of capping at 100%, it will start generating a chance for the next TeB. For example, say the patch goes live today and you still are using the Rune. Rune procs, and now you have 40200 Mastery Rating. This is equivalent of 150% chance to proc. The first 100% will go towards 2nd TeB, and the remaining 50% will go towards the 3rd TeB. Meaning while Rune is procced, you have A CHANCE of proccing 3 TeB. Granted there is going to be a Hard cap to Mastery at ~400% in it's current state but it is EXTREMELY unlikely we will be hitting that. ~400% is when we will be generating enough TeB so that we will be generating 15 stacks every 15 seconds (5 TeB per stack every 4 Chi used).
    At least on live, Rune is only good for specs that can reasonably manipulate the benefit of their mastery to take more effect during the proc's window. That definitely won't be possible with the new mastery so I don't suspect rune would be any good with it unless the stat is incredibly overtuned.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Crevan View Post
    "Ohai" - said subtlety rogues. Granted, I've retired my trusty old stabby to an alt status long ago, and Sanguinary Vein isn't exactly 40%, but the idea is still the same - until you make the target bleed, you do shit damage to it.
    I played Sub in DS, it was 16% if memory serves. Either way, it is currently 20% damage boost which RSK does as it stands.
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
    A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY FREE OF HATE

    VANTUCKY PRIDE WORLD WIDE

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    I know what you mean, hence my wait-and-see approach. Granted I didn't play a DK in wrath (only started my first one in MoP) but I knew the changes going on, and there were A LOT back then.
    I remember the forum rage when the tri spec and unholy hybrid duel wield spect was gutted for dks
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggety View Post
    Prior to 5.2, Ghostcrawler made a lengthy post about monks, saying that they wanted to buff us to be overpowered to increase representation. On 5.2 PTR, monks were top of the line dps, right up there with rogues. Ring of Peace was ridiculous. Things were looking good for the spec. Then, they gutted our damage, nerfed ring of peace, and we spent half a tier as bottom of the barrel damage before we got part of our damage back.

    As I said before, I am not confident that the developers will do a good damage pass on us. They also have yet to address major bugs that have been hurting the class since MoP launch (Xuen, Chi Wave, CJL, etc.)
    Spinning Lotus still doesn't hit Aberrations, at least when glyphed
    The fuck is with that
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
    A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY FREE OF HATE

    VANTUCKY PRIDE WORLD WIDE

  7. #187
    Dreadlord The Penguin's Avatar
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    Damn. I feel excessively relieved now that I did not cave and reroll a Monk.

  8. #188
    We did it friends!

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    God dammit. We raised concerns about RoR before they changed our mastery at the start of ToT and they just nerfed us by 20% instead.

    Now we're getting this.

    Unless something fucking major happens, this is terrible.
    Yeah I remember posting multiple times myself explaining in detail the issue with RoR and WW monks mastery. I have always told everyone I hated RoR for that very reason, and that's why WW got nerfed so hard at the start of ToT. Now we lose an interesting mastery for this bloody trinket. Hate RoR with a fiery passion (especially since it never dropped for me while it was stupid OP).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!


    My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by bounstar View Post
    We did it friends!
    what happened
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
    A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY FREE OF HATE

    VANTUCKY PRIDE WORLD WIDE

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    what happened
    Blue post acknowledgement. They've validated a lot of what we've said and are still intent on keeping us competitive. Still a long way to go but it's a good start.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...232?page=6#114
    Last edited by bounstar; 2013-07-11 at 04:44 AM. Reason: english is hard

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by bounstar View Post
    Blue post acknowledgement. They've validated a lot of what we've said and are still intent on keeping us competitive. Still a long way to go but it's a good start.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...232?page=6#114
    We'll see what happens. I'm still skeptical after they nerfed us by 20% to compensate for simcraft of all things, then reverted 15% of it way down the road.
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
    A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY FREE OF HATE

    VANTUCKY PRIDE WORLD WIDE

  13. #193
    Coming from the same people who think chi wave is raid utility.

    I'll skeptically wait and see.

  14. #194
    words are fucking words. and these words didn't even acknowledge any of the real issues. just a lame pr response that should have been issued with the original change so we didn't have to speculate on the reasoning.

    EDIT: I've added the following post to the PTR thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...232?page=9#170

    "NOW WITH LINKS!

    Lore (or any blue),

    WWer participation numbers thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9550?page=2#38

    Please read some of the comments, and explain to us how WWer participation is so low in a tier where the goal was to "bring it up to par".

    Now please don't just respond "new class syndrome". Its a cop out response, Brewmasters and MWers are fine, and Dks were in wrath. Normal mode participation is ok, but H10 just dies. Why?

    probably caused by:
    WWer lust on pull thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377369398
    "WWers heal" thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...5416?page=2#23
    Xuen (big dps CD) still bugged: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7256647898

    Do you care to comment any of these?

    You have to understand WWer faith right now is close to non-existent (see MMO for some brutally honest opinions). Last patch WWers were nerfed a large percent on patch day. The nerf was based on SIMULATIONS of dps that included us using a lvl 30 talent on CD. Sadly, this talent had been bugged since beta, yet it appeared the devs didn't even realize.

    Add that on to the constant bugs, GC's "WWers heal" comment, and yeah.

    Do you plan on addressing any of the issues above? Or will you be ok next tier when 4 US WWers have killed a progression boss months after an expansion was released?

    P.S. I understand you are just a voice here on the thread, but I know from your previous work you know how to think. For that reason I'd like to ask you the same question WWers have been asking all tier:

    Why should a 10 man guild bring a WWer over any other melee class?

    three tiers, three masterys, zero raid cooldowns
    I don't normally look for bumps or support, but I feel the links in that post supply the data behind our complaints. Would appreciate if people would quote respond with opinions to get a response to the real issues that have nothing to do with our mastery (most notably a raid CD).

    3 tiers, 3 masterys, 0 raid CDs
    Last edited by Moncoko; 2013-07-11 at 06:12 AM. Reason: 3 tiers

  15. #195
    Blademaster saltdoc's Avatar
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    Well that sucks.

    - sucks that the nerf is happening to RoR without compensation
    - sucks that I have yet to get RoR to drop to even benefit from it
    - sucks even more that I benched my Enhance Shammie to play my monk as main - after all of the underpowered years, they are good dps, i'm not using mine. by the time I get my enhance shammie up, it will be their turn to be nerfed again.

    Rogue reroll time?

  16. #196
    well I'm kinda tired of constant nerfing and constant changes of mastery. I'm playing monk since MoP release - our raid leader want one monk in our 10 man raid cos noone is playing rogue in our guild (and he want some leather wearer in raid). Now I'm starting to think drop WW monk completely and level rogue. My DPS isn't so bad (LFR RoRO droped yesterday so I'll see on today raid) but my ass gets kicked by SP, mage and lock even we have nearly same gear (normal gear with several TF items). Gap between me and them is not big but there is gap and that's bug me. Also I'm tired of constant changes every single patch they completely remake something but I think they are addressing wrong issues and do not focus on core problems:
    Chi wave - bouncing problems
    Xuen - on specific fight worthless CD
    RoRO - well all monks says it's mandatory - so maybe nerf RoRO and buff other monks so even monks without it could pull competitive DMG
    SEF - well IMHO design is not too bad but they should address that random despawning (or make them untargetable in PVE)
    raid CD - i think this is really issue every class got something we don't :-(

    It seems that blizzard devs are clueless what to do with WW monks and that's kinda sad. Maybe there's time to communicate with community more (well I don't mean to listen shouts like buff DMG, buff this and that etc.) But lots of ppl providing reasonable ideas and provide constructive feedback so why not listen to them?

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by saltdoc View Post
    Well that sucks.

    - sucks that the nerf is happening to RoR without compensation
    - sucks that I have yet to get RoR to drop to even benefit from it
    - sucks even more that I benched my Enhance Shammie to play my monk as main - after all of the underpowered years, they are good dps, i'm not using mine. by the time I get my enhance shammie up, it will be their turn to be nerfed again.

    Rogue reroll time?
    That's exactly what ruins the game for me... Just make all the freaking classes overpowered in their own way... Don't nerf and buff every patch. It's getting old.
    And all because of the freaking PvP!

  18. #198
    My face when 1 month playing ww, and not picked Roro the same time our mastery is getting nerfed, like 2 months on trash lvling and gearing.



  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Biggety View Post
    Prior to 5.2, Ghostcrawler made a lengthy post about monks, saying that they wanted to buff us to be overpowered to increase representation. On 5.2 PTR, monks were top of the line dps, right up there with rogues. Ring of Peace was ridiculous. Things were looking good for the spec. Then, they gutted our damage, nerfed ring of peace, and we spent half a tier as bottom of the barrel damage before we got part of our damage back.

    As I said before, I am not confident that the developers will do a good damage pass on us. They also have yet to address major bugs that have been hurting the class since MoP launch (Xuen, Chi Wave, CJL, etc.)
    Yeah, the 5.2 "buffs" were so disappointing that he basically outright lied to us. All we really gained was Nimble Brew and baseline 20 yard Paralysis. Ring of peace just ended up being incredibly strong against melee and useless against anyone else, and since most melee were not really all that strong, or represented in RBGs, it didn't really matter. At the same time, we lost 4 sec silence on our kick, 8 sec Paralysis was changed to 6 sec; and, to compensate for some more burst due to Tigerseye brew, we lost 10% from stance and 5% from RSK. We basically ended up in exactly the same spot, while blatantly being told that we are going to get serious buffs. Then in 5.3, Ring of Peace becomes completely useless against anyone, our kick interrupt is reduced to 4 sec... and we only get some of our RSK debuff damage that we should have never lost in the first place. So yeah, here's hoping that we don't end up with a bunch of side-buffs out of all of these new changes.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-07-11 at 02:56 PM.

  20. #200
    I am at least relieved that they are reading what we have to say. We will see how it works out.
    Normal is the name for the mental disorder present in the majority of humanity.
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