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  1. #301
    Field Marshal GareBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Personally I would much rather have Blizzard re-work Zen Med to work as a more concrete Raid cooldown instead of the current "Buffed up Grounding Totem" mechanic before they cave into giving WW's Revival. Yes giving Revival to WW would be an easy way out, but given how horribly designed Zen Med is, I would rather see them change Zen Med instead.
    hmmm, just a thought, but what if you could make one of the SEF clones channel zen med instead of the monk himself? and just be an aura of significant spell damage reduction? Just spitballing.

  2. #302
    I like the fact everyone here still discussing about it like noone could actually believe GC thinks we re fine xD

  3. #303
    Making Zen med a good raid cd brings the problems of BrM and MW getting it too.

  4. #304
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umppa View Post
    Making Zen med a good raid cd brings the problems of BrM and MW getting it too.
    What about Healing Tide Totems for Shamans? Before 5.4 Almost every Shaman chose Healing Tide Totem (5.4 it's becoming baseline) for that tier. It didn't matter if you were resto, enhance, or ele, you still got it, and raid leaders asked for you to drop it. I'm fine with BrM and MW getting it since it gives raid leaders options. "The BrM is currently tanking Heroic Dark Animus, and we need CDs for the next two Interupting Jolts (which does 400k damage to all players). WW, get the first one, MW get the second. MW, use your Revival for the third one." It still gives us a reason to be in raid and to provide a meaningful cooldown.

    What I'm saying is that if it's changed to something like Devotion Aura, where all specs have access to it and gives meaning to bringing a monk, no matter the spec, just for the cooldown, then I'm for it.
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2013-07-15 at 06:59 AM.

  5. #305
    Sure it would be nice, but as blizz have said they think there is too many raid cds already. MW getting both revival and good raid cd via zen med might be too much.

  6. #306
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by umppa View Post
    Sure it would be nice, but as blizz have said they think there is too many raid cds already. MW getting both revival and good raid cd via zen med might be too much.
    If you want to be technical, Blizzard considers Zen Med AS a Raid Cooldown. Given that it is such a situational spell to begin with, most people don't use it as a raid cooldown, instead only using the 90% damage reduction as a personal cooldown. I can think of only 2 times this tier that it's useful as a "raid cooldown" and that is Megara's Rampage and Heroic Durumu's Dark Parasite. Hence the reason why I suggest reworking Zen Med before going after other Utility options.

  7. #307
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The utility arms race won't end well. Someone will always have the best and others will still want more to compete.
    Once again, GC does simply not understand or is pretending to be an idiot. If we had utility and demanded it to be buffed, this argument would be somewhat valid. But we don't.

  8. #308
    Stood in the Fire Chiasmus's Avatar
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    He has a very valid point when he talks about the cooldown arms race. A better solution than giving Windwalker more utility would be removing excesses of it from other classes, however that kind of change is more suited to expansion overhauls than mid-expansion patches.
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  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Chiasmus View Post
    He has a very valid point when he talks about the cooldown arms race. A better solution than giving Windwalker more utility would be removing excesses of it from other classes, however that kind of change is more suited to expansion overhauls than mid-expansion patches.
    No, his point is not valid at all because smoke bomb was added a few months ago AND they are giving a raid cd to DKs in 5.4. So it's fair for other classes to demand utilities while for ours is not.
    Last edited by masteryuri; 2013-07-15 at 10:28 AM.

  10. #310
    if we want utility we just need to spam the shit out of his twitter account. see how they (the devs) talk about "we get many complaints about X and that's why we are changing Y or class X gets cooldown Z", i guess that's how it works nowadays. sad but true.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by umppa View Post
    Making Zen med a good raid cd brings the problems of BrM and MW getting it too.
    Because no ability in this game does different things for different specs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiasmus View Post
    He has a very valid point when he talks about the cooldown arms race. A better solution than giving Windwalker more utility would be removing excesses of it from other classes, however that kind of change is more suited to expansion overhauls than mid-expansion patches.
    Every melee in the game has one, it's kind of late to be worried about an arms race... lol they quite literally gave warriors 3+ raid cooldowns this expansion, but monks can't have 1.

  12. #312
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    At level 79 or below, yea it would take you longer to get to 15 stacks. But you have to realize the new Mastery is a chance to generate a second TeB. At 10,200 mastery; 7,200 plus the Mastery buff; that equate to 50% Chance to proc. At 50%, your at the same point as you are on live; where it will take you 30-37 seconds (depending on the T15 4-piece) to reach 15 stack. (10 stacks * 1.5 = 15 stacks)

    At this point I'm not too worried about the 90% damage increase compared to the 197.567% TeB you have from a Rune buffed TeB. At least for me, only half of my TeB's are Rune buffed. So for you, a non-Rune buffed TeB is equal to 68.32%. That is an average of 132.943% TeB. That is NOT counting the fact that there will be down-time where you will not have TeB up at all.

    I don't think they will bump up the TeB to 8-9% (132.943% / 15 = 8.863%), but 7% is the most I can see them bumping the value of TeB. Then from there either bump up the damage bonus of either Tiger stance or RSK debuff and/or maybe slight adjustment to the damage of any or none of the main abilities.
    It doesn't take 30-37 seconds on live to reach 10 stacks, It takes me 28 seconds and it takes double that on PTR

    Live Stats

    Hit: 2552
    Expertise: 2556
    Mastery: 9588
    Haste: 9584
    Crit: 9584

    TeB Stack Generation time for Minimum use.

    10 Stacks = 28 seconds

    PTR Stats - Haste = Live > Crit > Mastery

    Hit: 2567
    Expertise: 2553
    Mastery: 4937
    Haste: 9618
    Crit: 11953

    15 Stacks = 52 seconds

    PTR Stats - Haste = Live > Mastery > Crit

    Hit: 2592
    Expertise: 2553
    Mastery: 9641
    Haste: 9680
    Crit: 7162

    15 Stacks = 40 seconds
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  13. #313
    Keyboard Turner The Monarch's Avatar
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    What I get from the above post is that with those PTR stats and a Mastery > Crit priority you can obtain around 23% more uptime on a 90% damage buff. At first glance this looks more attractive than that crit rating. I don't think it's worth debating whether the changes are better or worse; they are happening regardless. Should just focus on figuring out how to maximize what we are given.

  14. #314
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    It doesn't take 30-37 seconds on live to reach 10 stacks, It takes me 28 seconds and it takes double that on PTR
    The current build of PTR yes...But the next patch where they are reverting it back to 3 Chi to 1 TeB will make my comment valid.

  15. #315
    Req, test that again when the new PTR patch hits. I'm curious regarding what kind of data you will find. Current PTR is a little behind the notes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Monarch View Post
    What I get from the above post is that with those PTR stats and a Mastery > Crit priority you can obtain around 23% more uptime on a 90% damage buff. At first glance this looks more attractive than that crit rating. I don't think it's worth debating whether the changes are better or worse; they are happening regardless. Should just focus on figuring out how to maximize what we are given.
    There is no such thing as TEB uptime. You can use it as much or as little as you want.

  16. #316
    Keyboard Turner The Monarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    Req, test that again when the new PTR patch hits. I'm curious regarding what kind of data you will find. Current PTR is a little behind the notes.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There is no such thing as TEB uptime. You can use it as much or as little as you want.
    Understood, I'm guessing you also got what I meant though. 23% higher stack generation rate.

  17. #317
    New PTR Notes:

    4pcT15 - Increases the damage of your Tigereye Brew by 1% per stack consumed.

    5.3 No RoRo
    Estimated Ascension DPS: 214,612
    Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 203,459
    Estimated Chi Brew DPS: 206,348

    5.3 DPS w/ RoRo
    Estimated Ascension DPS: 242,415
    Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 222,680

    5.4 PTR
    Estimated Ascension DPS: 253,818
    Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 239,380
    Estimated Chi Brew DPS: 243,802

    Updated the numbers for apples to apples sake. We may or may not be using the T15 4pc in the new tier very long, but a buff nonetheless.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...clpnMXc#gid=25

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    5.4 PTR
    Estimated Ascension DPS: 253,818
    Estimated Pow. Strikes DPS: 239,380
    Estimated Chi Brew DPS: 243,802
    Very cool. Starting to get a little excited about 5.4. What secondary stat setup were you using for these calculations? Haste softcap > Mastery > Crit?
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  19. #319
    Looks like the reverted the change to how we gain stacks from 4 back to 3 on the ptr. With the increase in damage to 6% per stack makes it seem like they are on the right track. That revision was needed 4 chi consumed was to much 3 should be nice.

  20. #320
    Haste to cap > Crit > Mastery

    Mastery isn't scaling very well. You get more TEB/min from haste than mastery, and consequently DPS doesn't scale very well with mastery.

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