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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    You can tell who didn't play in Wrath when DKs were undergoing a similar rollercoaster ride because they are actually surprised.

    Edit: Just don't worry. We're not gonna get major butchered, promise. We'll get buffs to compensate, we'll probably stay middle of the pack. Worst case, lower middle.
    Please. Deathknights ran a season of free glad, it's understandable to have a rollercoaster when there were entire specs devoted to just spamming IT like you were a frost mage in plate.

    Monks haven't had that period, unless you solely factor duels.

    Deathknights were reformed constantly because broken mechanics from Beta went live, such as the DnD fear, or AotD working in Arenas. The most we had was Zen Med, in theory, until we started Beta.
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  2. #62
    I like that rune is being broken.. It's cool trinket but the rng nature of it screw us on anything that requires predictible burst moments. Actually on anything that's not patchwerk it will bite you in your ass a bit, because even if your average DPS is high, you can't line it with other procs, with certain mechanics, with raid CDs etc..
    Also as it was stated numerous times - tying a class viability to a trinket proc is a really, really bad design. Trinkets should enchance our output, not decide whether or not we're competetive. Because in the end - do you balance the class with or without the trinket? Either would make us bad without it or OP with it.. Bad design...

    I do hope that the numbers are not final though (still we haven't really seen number changes on our other abilities).

    As for mastery itself - I'm not sure if I like it or not.. For sure it's gazilion times better than Mistweaver one and actually do make some sense. I might like it.
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  3. #63
    High Overlord
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    Need more info to run the numbers, but it seems we'll need some really sizable buffs to compensate for this. My biggest issue with this new mastery is that it's extremely boring compared to what we currently have. In 5.4, having a mastery proc up will have zero effect on how you play, and given how monotonous our rotation already is, that's not a good thing.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hahaha...but seriously...don't we get that for every class, every specc, every patch. Not all at the same time, but the outcry of "OMF don't nerf me bro" has been heard just tooooooooooo often.

    It is PTR, right?
    Yeah, but often PTR turns out to be reality... Maybe TEB will give us 7% damage increase instead of 5%...

    I seriously don't get why they have to play with the mechanics of EVERY. single. class.
    It seems like they have no direction, no actual clue of what they are doing.
    It's simple, work around the abilities you gave to the class, tune the numbers, but man... Changing a mastery, and on the last tier of this expansion...
    No words.

  5. #65
    The Patient Aranoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Of course it won't be a buff because it breaks the OPness that is Rune. If this change sticks I would expect compensation later in the PTR cycle (eg buffs across the board).
    This. I can't see what people are whining about. It's a good thing we get separated from that trinket. One item making an entire class isn't good game design. Stop crying.

  6. #66
    ok i knew WW's were going to get nerfed. since i perfected my stat build my DPS was always 30k higher than the 2nd on the list. but this nerf is waaaay too big.
    i was already worried about RoRo getting nerfed but this is WAAAY worse. and this is also the second time they completely changed the mastery ..... and everytime theres a new learning curve for us WW's to learn. im kind of sick of it but i just love Monks so bad that i dont wanna change might change to BrM if this doesnt get better.

  7. #67
    The Patient MasterOutlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranoch View Post
    This. I can't see what people are whining about. It's a good thing we get separated from that trinket. One item making an entire class isn't good game design. Stop crying.
    Because they should have nerfed or changed the trinket instead of changing Windwalkers again. Adjusting the class/spec and not the problematic item is just asinine and completely backwards logic even for Blizzard.

  8. #68
    I don't think the main reason for this nerf is RoRo. If it was, they could've far more easily just changed TeB to not snapshot Mastery.

    Then again, with Blizzard as silent as ever about us, we'll never know. I truly don't understand it, they're making absolutely massive overhauls to how the spec is played, something they've stated they don't want to do mid expansion, and not even attempting to bother to explain their logic. Not even hoping for a massive explanation post like the Hunter one on the main page or others before that, but just a small Twitter response. I guess even that's too much to ask.

  9. #69
    Mechagnome
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    Well this is both good and bad. We will not be dependent on that trinket to be competitive. They can actually buff other aspects of us so it will be better both in PvP and PvE. And we can control our burst to a larger degree and probably have more consistent DPS.

    The bad part is that if this is all changes for WW will be at the bottom of the barrel. Even with 100% procc chance on that mastery it will not be enough compared to RoRo. Not saying that will happen, but we know blizzard have done wrong decisions with WW before. I will also miss my 1mill+ Crits and the fact that I have to discard my HC TF 2/2 RoRo.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Deldavala View Post
    Not saying that will happen, but we know blizzard have done wrong decisions with WW before.
    This is the key to people shouting "it's just PTR". Why would they buff us, when they didn't buff us before? Why did they even bother to change 1 TeB charge per 4 Chi instead of 3 Chi if they think we need more DPS?

  11. #71
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illitti View Post
    This is the key to people shouting "it's just PTR". Why would they buff us, when they didn't buff us before? Why did they even bother to change 1 TeB charge per 4 Chi instead of 3 Chi if they think we need more DPS?
    Well they might do that change to make us not have so high uptime on TeB. In return they might buff RSK, Tiger stance, Tiger strikes or other aspects of our class. I think they are just tipping their toes in the water on our mastery to see how it feels, but if we are bottom of the barrel at the DPS department they will adjust something(I hope).

  12. #72
    The Patient pattison's Avatar
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    Either way they need to make the mastery strong. If it has poor scaling or warrants low dps then we will have huge problems at hand. In the last tier you don't want to have scaling problems. We are probably going to be looking at around 6-8k haste, crit is generally 'okay'; and if they make mastery bad for us then we will have bigger problems.

    Rune provided more than just an insane proc, it made us scale insanely with iLvl. We will need something to cover this issue, as I feel without rune we generally have poor scaling as we don't really have any haste or crit breakpoints.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranoch View Post
    This. I can't see what people are whining about. It's a good thing we get separated from that trinket. One item making an entire class isn't good game design. Stop crying.
    It's not that we're pining for RoR to be fundamental to the class. It's that its yet another change.
    As someone earlier said, three tiers, three masteries now.

    They're capping the 15 stacks at 75%, something I currently reach with my gear with 10 stacks, as well as increasing the cost to generate each TEB charge.

    It is not hard to see why people are skeptical.
    I am not a racist, I am a melting pot of friendship
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Bows were made for tools of war. They go in the same pot as guns. There is ZERO reason to own a bow in 2014. Tools of war have no place in civilian homes.
    A PROGRESSIVE SOCIETY FREE OF HATE

    VANTUCKY PRIDE WORLD WIDE

  14. #74
    This is some sick triple nerf, longer to get to full stacks, less damage per stack and no more sexy RoRo damage, next tier is gonna suck hard if this goes through as is.

  15. #75
    I guess I'm over getting upset with class changes.
    I don't really see the issue here.
    It's a PTR, they're clearly looking at what they can do for the class.
    RoR is a bad trinket, but guess what!? No one will be using RoR next expansion.
    RoR shows a fundamental issue with the current mastery. I'd equate it with pre-rating stats on items.
    Anyone else remember Blackhand's Breadth having 2% crit? It was an amazing trinket well into T2 IIRC.

    Our current mastery essentially puts % damage modifiers on every piece of gear that has mastery on it. (NOT GOOD)
    The sky is not falling, you will get your check in the mail. Don't Worry.

  16. #76
    with the new mastery I wonder what they will do to the t15 4p :P.
    Monk main Retired til warlords beta/release, undecided about it.

  17. #77
    At least it's possibly a PvP buff...my condolences to serious raiders.

  18. #78
    You know what, Im gonna say it.

    Halle-fucking-juah this is what we need.

    The current iteration of WW mastery makes it impossible for us to see any meaningful changes or buffs because of the ridiculous double-dipping any sort of buff would give us. Making TeB a static, baseline dps increase lets Blizz be able to bring up our baseline numbers without throwing out the top end of our damage. It gives Blizz something solid to build upon and maybe - hopefully - address other problems in the spec, like a lack of raid CD or just the complete absence of flavor or variety the spec has. Current Bottled Fury keeps WWs trapped in this really unforgiving place of needing baseline damage buffs like crazy, but not being able to get them because of mastery scaling.

    RoRo was a bad trinket met with a bad mastery scheme.

    Will I miss my 1 mill+ RSK crits? Yes.

    Will I miss the occasional god-mode that happens when all the stars align perfectly for me? Yes.

    Will I miss the frustration of the start of a pull where RoRo goes off and is effectively useless for me? No

    Will I miss the RNG-induced frustration of seeing a Bloodlust or second pot duration go off without a single RoRo proc, or see a proc right before a forced dps stop? NO.

    Our numbers will be adjusted. The patch is far from done, lets wait and see.
    Last edited by Schaden; 2013-07-09 at 12:13 PM.

  19. #79
    Just want a 15% dmg tiger stance now and I will be very happy . Only problem i can see is that it will (depending on mastery) be abit of a pain with the 4 chi instead of 3 for PVP.though 75% damage increase > 50% (or whatever amount it will be with mastery gear (ROR doesn't work that well in pvp :P).
    Monk main Retired til warlords beta/release, undecided about it.

  20. #80
    Just to give an example about this change, before I had 50% uptime with a 200% brew. Lets lower this average to about 180 to account for the fact that 1) not used with rune proc and 2) used with lower than 10 stacks.

    This means the average damage increases from brew is 90%.
    With the change this means we need an uptime of 120%. Something that even with no matter how much stacks we get from our mastery will not be possible.
    So unless they change the damage our abilities do, we will not be at the same level as before.
    Also having an uptime of 100% on brew seems unrealistic due to the fact we cannot spend that much chi with our 15 globals we have. You generate 7.5 stacks in those 15 seconds if you only spend 2 chi every second. having say 2 stacks every 4 chi (due to mastery) would increase this to 15 and would still make it impossible to reach the 100% uptime due to the fact we need to use globals to generate Chi.

    Basically this change gave us a damage loss of 8% (190% damage done -> 175% damage done from brew) IF we have an up time of 100% on the new brew. Anything less and it goes up of course. I don't see why they didn't throw a damage increase in together with the change. Simple math already proves we will lack damage.

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