WW Mastery redesigned (again) - Time to get 'rebalanced' (again)

[Tangra]

Either way it would need to be pretty drastic. 15-20% stance buff so 25-30% total.

The mastery seems pretty weak so I don't think it will be desired in pvp or pve. Which means the ramp up time will probably go from 30 chi to around 50 chi in pvp gear.... is that really what blizzard wants for ww?

Well hopefully we get 20-30% chance baseline, and good scaling. Usually, mediocre masteries scale well. Hopefully, the new build goes live tonight or tomorrow so we can test for sure, since they love announcing big changes and leaving out very important details.

[Hinalover]

Well hopefully we get 20-30% chance baseline, and good scaling. Usually, mediocre masteries scale well. Hopefully, the new build goes live tonight or tomorrow so we can test for sure, since they love announcing big changes and leaving out very important details.

20%-30% would mean 2.5% - 3.75% every 600 mastery rating, which I don't think will be THAT high. I think it would be more likely 16% or 2% every 600 mastery rating.

[Ezyah]

I was really confident we would get some raid utility considering the state of the WW on live and the fact that their are underrepresented in Heroic logs. And all we get is ... this ? a nerf ? really ?

I'm getting tired of fighting for my spot everytime i want to raid even tho i'm performing better than most of the other melee of my guild. If this goes live, i might consider canceling my sub, i dont have the guts to reroll something else and gear it ...

We need SOOOO much buffs to be the spec we are supposed to be atm. Like either a tiger stance buff or buff the % dmg per stack o tigereye brew like 8-10%

We need a real mastery because cmon "chance to proc stuff" .... We ve been threw this in 5.0 already and it didnt work ...

We also need some raid utility in any form. There are so much idea out there on the forums like raidwide touch of karma (not 100% but like 50%) , a statue wich would work like the BrM one : For each xxxx dmg you ve made, you gain a stack of tiger statue, you can use any time up to 5 stack to make ur raid gain 1% dmg and 2% healing per stack for 15 sec..... etc ... etc

That s three major buff needed in what remains of the ptr. I really dont see them making so huge change in such a short delay.

[Skally Wag]

This is the third mastery change, for the third raid patch IN A ROW. On top of that, we have no raid utility, and it's a dps nerf on top of it (at least, it is unless they go back and buff our stance by 30% or something ridiculous like that). This might be the nail in the coffin for MoP for me, by the time I'll get one of my other toons geared up I'll be so far behind that it hardly seems worth doing.

[Felade]

This new Bottled Fury will be exactly like what we had in t14, if not more boring. As bad as combo breaker mastery was, you actually had to use up the procs when they occured. The 5.4 incarnation is as passive as a rock, and no procs will change anything about how we play around it. We might end up being alright when all the numbers are adjusted, but there's no denying that our gameplay will become more bland.

The problem with combo breaker as Mastery was that it got in the way of our rotation, by proccing at inappropriate times - like when you need to Jab just before capping energy. This mastery is better because it doesn't get in the way of our rotation.

I was really confident we would get some raid utility considering the state of the WW on live and the fact that their are underrepresented in Heroic logs. And all we get is ... this ? a nerf ? really ?

Never assume that what is complained about on the official forums will become reality next patch, or ever. That only happens for Warlocks. I bet they still feel our healing is worthwhile. They're sitting over there in Irvine, right now, wondering "why doesn't anyone use WW's healing?" They're probably going to go with that, realize that no one STILL uses WW for healing, and we MIGHT get something next expansion.

We have a lot of mobility and personal survivability. That, and our healing is supposed to be enough. I can see where they are coming from with the raid cooldown thing, at least. It has gotten pretty ridiculous how many raid healing cds are coming from DPS specs these days, and giving one to Monks would only make things worse.

[bounstar]

The problem with combo breaker as Mastery was that it got in the way of our rotation, by proccing at inappropriate times - like when you need to Jab just before capping energy. This mastery is better because it doesn't get in the way of our rotation.



Never assume that what is complained about on the official forums will become reality next patch, or ever. That only happens for Warlocks. I bet they still feel our healing is worthwhile. They're sitting over there in Irvine, right now, wondering "why doesn't anyone use WW's healing?" They're probably going to go with that, realize that no one STILL uses WW for healing, and we MIGHT get something next expansion.

We have a lot of mobility and personal survivability. That, and our healing is supposed to be enough. I can see where they are coming from with the raid cooldown thing, at least. It has gotten pretty ridiculous how many raid healing cds are coming from DPS specs these days, and giving one to Monks would only make things worse.

Then contribute! Posting on their forums has a way higher chance of getting noticed by the devs. If you feel this strongly about it make some noise. This goes to everyone on this forum.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9436964232

[Kotori125]

Why not just give WW a non-rng based mastery, since generally the rng masteries are weaker than the passive effects. Something like, 'the dot on Blackout Kick is increased by x%'? I don't think it can be as abused as the current (live) mastery, but it is a hell of a lot better than the current (ptr) mastery.

[Perpetuus]

How I think TEB should have been changed:

30 second CD
Increase damage by 50% + X% per stack (X effected by mastery and lower gain than current)
Lasts 10 seconds + Y seconds per stack (Y effected by mastery)
Consumes up to 10 stacks on use
1 stack generated for every 4 chi used
Stack generation effected by critical chance similar to MW mana tea
No longer snapshots

Now it can be used on pull without too much degradation in damage increase and can be possibly kept up 100%. Might be too OP though, maybe different numbers could fix it.

Raid CD: touch of karma raid wide, 5 min CD (damage capped?)
Probably too OP as well but at least there are some ideas.

[Ezyah]

We have a lot of mobility and personal survivability. That, and our healing is supposed to be enough. I can see where they are coming from with the raid cooldown thing, at least. It has gotten pretty ridiculous how many raid healing cds are coming from DPS specs these days, and giving one to Monks would only make things worse.

Blame Blizzard, They gave warrior and rogue so much raid utility and created a problem were there was none

[Jayma]

I find it pretty funny that I could replace RoRo on live and I would still do more damage than PTR. That's how bad this change is.

The mastery value on PTR could be INF... and it still wouldn't make up for losing RoRo.

[Stuffs]

Then contribute! Posting on their forums has a way higher chance of getting noticed by the devs. If you feel this strongly about it make some noise. This goes to everyone on this forum.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9436964232

Ding dong bannu

Besides, history indicates they don't listen to the forums a lot

[Hinalover]

Ding dong bannu

Besides, history indicates they don't listen to the forums a lot

Not necessarily. They have taken ideas and feedback before from the main forums (just look at the previous two "Theorycrafting threads" started during MoP Beta and 5.2 PTR where they made changes based on the discussions posted in those threads). Plus they have said that they do look at other forums, including Elitist Jerk's forums.

Also Blue posts are being posted on the PTR discussion forums, so you know they are read them.

[Deleted]

What does a monk bring to the table?

Player skill at not standing in the fire ?! You do realize the game is not about cold math, right ?

[Jayma]

Player skill at not standing in the fire ?! You do realize the game is not about cold math, right ?

You're aware of what I meant
Equal skill and gear obviously
What separates the class not the player

[Ezyah]

Player skill at not standing in the fire ?! You do realize the game is not about cold math, right ?

because ofc ww are obviously more skilled than rogue player

[SurrealNight]

I still don't get "the sky is falling" feeling from this change if you look at it from development perspective the only way this change would be done is by itself onto the PTR with no other DPS adjustments so they can.
1) Confirm the link to RoRo and infinite scaling to DPS was effectively removed.
2) Determine a baseline and rating value for the new mastery.
3) See the general DPS levels from these core changes.
4) See how the changes impact PVP vs PVE.

If you think a designer is going to throw in extra variables like a buff to the stance or changes to RSK you are sorely mistaken. The fact they didn't release any DPS balancing along with these announced changes is not the slightest bit surprising to me. You don't muck up the water with extra variables when trying to determine the results of such a huge design change.

Not sure I agree with the approach to TeB+mastery they took but looks like it's the route they want to go. Where WW end up in the DPS race can't even be a question you can guess an answer to.

[Deleted]

I'm calling it right now: They won't buff anything, can't have monks become the new Death Knights.

[Tangra]

Honestly they will probably have to scrap this version of mastery because it produces very different results for PvP and PvE...or they could keep it like this and find some other way of buffing PvE damage.

[Sparkidy]

The issue for me is this: was there anything inherently wrong with the mastery, if you disregard RoR?

It's pretty much a resounding no.

I love the current mastery - it provides meaningful gameplay, where timing and reaction to any trinket proc is rewarded. Although the silver lining, guess I'll be able to generate stacks for longer until my trinkets proc again after the original proc at the pull...

Yep, really scraping the barrel for positives here. But who knows, maybe they'll see the outcry and change it *fingers crossed*

[Jayma]

The issue for me is this: was there anything inherently wrong with the mastery, if you disregard RoR?

It's pretty much a resounding no.

I love the current mastery - it provides meaningful gameplay, where timing and reaction to any trinket proc is rewarded. Although the silver lining, guess I'll be able to generate stacks for longer until my trinkets proc again after the original proc at the pull...

Yep, really scraping the barrel for positives here. But who knows, maybe they'll see the outcry and change it *fingers crossed*

I agree the mastery was fine. The trinket was broken yet necessary with the current state of windwalker.