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  1. #141
    I'm calling it right now: They won't buff anything, can't have monks become the new Death Knights.

  2. #142
    Honestly they will probably have to scrap this version of mastery because it produces very different results for PvP and PvE...or they could keep it like this and find some other way of buffing PvE damage.

  3. #143
    The issue for me is this: was there anything inherently wrong with the mastery, if you disregard RoR?

    It's pretty much a resounding no.

    I love the current mastery - it provides meaningful gameplay, where timing and reaction to any trinket proc is rewarded. Although the silver lining, guess I'll be able to generate stacks for longer until my trinkets proc again after the original proc at the pull...

    Yep, really scraping the barrel for positives here. But who knows, maybe they'll see the outcry and change it *fingers crossed*

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkidy View Post
    The issue for me is this: was there anything inherently wrong with the mastery, if you disregard RoR?

    It's pretty much a resounding no.

    I love the current mastery - it provides meaningful gameplay, where timing and reaction to any trinket proc is rewarded. Although the silver lining, guess I'll be able to generate stacks for longer until my trinkets proc again after the original proc at the pull...

    Yep, really scraping the barrel for positives here. But who knows, maybe they'll see the outcry and change it *fingers crossed*
    I agree the mastery was fine. The trinket was broken yet necessary with the current state of windwalker.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    I still don't get "the sky is falling" feeling from this change
    You bring up a good point, but I think most people treat it like the sky is falling because of one important problem. Generally, if you wait to provide feedback to Blizzard, they tell you it's too late in the patch cycle and save the changes for the next one. They almost never make major changes in late PTR (despite the fact that they should) and it's almost unheard of that Blizzard would make a significant change after a patch launch but before the next.

    If Blizzard weren't so dedicated to saving all changes for patches, I don't think players would jump to conclusions as often. A scenario in which Blizzard would consider a major change post-patch is a scenario in which players feel as though they can have a little patience with changes and feel them out. The current scenario poses two options: (1) Scream as loud as you can the moment you find out about a change, or (2) wait 6 months until the next patch.
    Last edited by Frogged; 2013-07-09 at 10:11 PM.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogged View Post
    You bring up a good point, but I think most people treat it like the sky is falling because of one important problem. Generally, if you wait to provide feedback to Blizzard, they tell you it's too late in the patch cycle and save the changes for the next one. They almost never make major changes in late PTR (despite the fact that they should) and it's almost unheard of that Blizzard would make a significant change after a patch launch but before the next.

    If Blizzard weren't so dedicated to saving all changes for patches, I don't think players would jump to conclusions as often. A scenario in which Blizzard would consider a major change post-patch is a scenario in which players feel as though they can have a little patience with changes and feel them out. The current scenario poses two options: (1) Scream as loud as you can the moment you find out about a change, or (2) wait 6 months until the next patch.
    You're conflating "scream as loud as you can" with "providing feedback". Especially in a thread on a fansite class forum, where you can't reasonably assume that anyone from Blizzard will see your post.

    Providing feedback involves going to the PTR forum and posting your worries there about the mechanics of the change, or about how you think the numbers will be too low once the change is in place. If you're genuinely worried that Blizzard is unaware that this is a nerf, or you're worried that they might think WW damage needs to be nerfed by this amount, then posting those concerns in a clear and constructive way on the PTR forum is the way to have an actual chance of getting Blizzard to change things.

    Screaming as loud as you can apparently involves posting things like "welp that's it I'm going back to my rogue" in a thread on a fansite, like some people in this thread have done. The chance that that will convince Blizzard to do anything at all is 0%, and frankly it makes it harder to have a useful conversation about what further changes might be needed.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconslicer View Post
    -SNIPPED-
    True enough. I meant scream as loud as you can in a figurative sense. People talking about rerolling in this thread are probably not contributing too much to the discussion and that's not what I meant. I was more referring to the fact that we should make our opinions known to Blizzard, and early.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  8. #148
    High Overlord
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    Already posted my initial results on EJ forums, but gonna share the numbers here as well to put the changes into some sort of perspective. As always with PTR stuff, nothing is final, results are provisional and some assumptions were made. Calculations were done for ilvl547 with just shy of 9.6k in each stat. I took the performance with Roro and 5.3 mastery as a baseline.

    5.3 Mastery, Roro equipped and used: 100%.
    5.3 Mastery, Roro proc disabled (its static agility still accounted for): 88.8%.
    5.3 Mastery, 2 Jujus equipped (impossible, using for reference only): 91.95%.
    5.4 Mastery, 1 Juju equipped + static agility from Roro: 85.01%.

    I assume 2xJuju with 5.4 mastery will give 3% extra, just like in 5.3. So in that case, we're looking at ~12% loss.

    The new mastery can be misleading in a way - we'll generally be generating more TEB stacks per minute, but it will take longer to cap out on them. In my example I have 17.8 TEB/min for 33.7 sec to get 10 and 44.5% uptime in 5.3, against 19.8 TEB/min for 45.5 sec to get 15 and 33.9% uptime in 5.4.

  9. #149
    https://twitter.com/devolore/status/354740912548622337

    Just to add to the others suggesting; Make sure you provide feedback on the official forums as well!

  10. #150
    Data mining is in:
    Mastery: Bottled Fury - When you generate Tigereye Brew charges, you have a 16% chance to generate an additional charge. Monk - Windwalker Spec.
    So it looks like 300 mastery for +1% proc chance, for now.

  11. #151
    So, after 20 something Lei-Shen kills + just as many coins wasted, I finally land my RoRO. Log-on to mmo-c to DL zephy only to find this. To quote them EMO's; FML.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconslicer View Post
    Data mining is in:


    So it looks like 300 mastery for +1% proc chance, for now.
    So I was correct in that the 16% base Mastery. Good to know.

  13. #153
    That is the same scaling as our current Mastery correct?

    If that's the case then in order to get to 100% (the same TEB generation as live) you would be giving up 100% dmg bonus for a 75% static dmg bonus?

    That would mean this mastery is already significantly worse before we even include the RoRo mechanic.

  14. #154
    It's the same scaling, but the offset is different. On live you get the first 10% for free, 16% for the base mastery, then +1% per 300 mastery. The new proc is pure mastery, without the base 10%. So for a 100% proc in the new system, that amount of mastery would make your TEB be worth 110% damage.

    That's 25200 mastery rating, for the curious.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayma View Post
    That is the same scaling as our current Mastery correct?

    If that's the case then in order to get to 100% (the same TEB generation as live) you would be giving up 100% dmg bonus for a 75% static dmg bonus?

    That would mean this mastery is already significantly worse before we even include the RoRo mechanic.
    Not exactly...It's 0.2% every 600 Mastery added to the base 1% TeB. Given that Bottle Fury has a 1.6% base Mastery you get the point. As to reach 100% proc chance you need 25,200 Mastery Rating, 22,200 Mastery Rating if you factor in the Mastery buff.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Not exactly...It's 0.2% every 600 Mastery added to the base 1% TeB. Given that Bottle Fury has a 1.6% base Mastery you get the point. As to reach 100% proc chance you need 25,200 Mastery Rating, 22,200 Mastery Rating if you factor in the Mastery buff.
    My mistake, but the overall point about how weak the mastery is and how serious this nerf is beyond just rune still stands.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Not exactly...It's 0.2% every 600 Mastery added to the base 1% TeB. Given that Bottle Fury has a 1.6% base Mastery you get the point. As to reach 100% proc chance you need 25,200 Mastery Rating, 22,200 Mastery Rating if you factor in the Mastery buff.
    if we use teb for 100% uptime on live we get 5 stacks in this 15 sec.
    for 600 mastery rating we get 0.2% on each of this 5 stacks = 1% overall dmg.

    on ptr we will get not even 4 stacks in 15sec.
    for 600 mastery we will get 2% more stacks for 5% dmg. (4*5)-(4*1.02*5) = 0,4% overall dmg

    => the new mastery iss not even half so good as the current one.

    this has nothing to do with RoR its just a nerf.

  18. #158
    to add to the feedback, I've created a "WWers heal" thread on the ptr forum. Since I don't have the time to go through all my logs, I'd appreciate if you all could add to the thread in hopes of making the devs realize just how little healing we provide:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9454615416

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by kotoxxx View Post
    if we use teb for 100% uptime on live we get 5 stacks in this 15 sec.
    for 600 mastery rating we get 0.2% on each of this 5 stacks = 1% overall dmg.

    on ptr we will get not even 4 stacks in 15sec.
    for 600 mastery we will get 2% more stacks for 5% dmg. (4*5)-(4*1.02*5) = 0,4% overall dmg

    => the new mastery iss not even half so good as the current one.

    this has nothing to do with RoR its just a nerf.
    So I take it that you want Blizzard to revert the 4 Chi to TeB to 3 Chi (personally would not object), but also buff the TeB damage to 10% up from 5%. This would bring us back to the 1% overall damage. Or buff the base mastery to 2.5% every 600 mastery rating and to boost TeB damage to 10%.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayma View Post
    My mistake, but the overall point about how weak the mastery is and how serious this nerf is beyond just rune still stands.
    Sure, so at 22.2k mastery on gear, you'll have the same uptime as in live, with 25% less damage. Uptime today is, what, 50%? 40%? So it's a 10-12% nerf to overall damage.

    At mastery below 22.2k, you'll have less uptime, where on live the buff would be smaller. You can do the math if you like, but it'll probably still land in the "10-15% nerf" range.

    So "how serious this nerf is" is roughly a 10% dps loss. That's not insignificant, but it's also easily fixable by eg. a 10% buff to the RSK debuff.

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