WW Mastery redesigned (again) - Time to get 'rebalanced' (again)

[Hinalover]

It's 16% chance to get an extra Tigerseye Brew when you get one normally, plus 1.6% for additional points of mastery. With good PvP gear you end up at 40%+ chance to proc an extra stack.

That is a little off. 16% is the correct Base mastery %, but it requires 600 Mastery Rating to generate an additional 2% chance to proc (300 Mastery Rating = 1% additional chance; whichever way you want to look at it).

[Requital]

Rune does not make WW OP. By definition, a spec if OP if it performs significantly better than its competitors, which WW does not. Also if WW were OP you would see raids stacking WW (like you see 4+ Warlocks in 25 mans currently), which clearly is not happening.

Rune is a strong trinket, but it's not Dragonwrath, which guaranteed you a raid spot if you had one.

That is where you are wrong, Without the Rune WW is 100% irrelevant. It is a Dragonwrath of T15 content the issue is Range performs better than melee and you actually have to know how to play the Windwalker spec properly for the DPS to be noticed but you also have to basically be given free reign to tunnel bosses and use encounter buffs to your advantage. Dragonwrath on the other hand just played the class for you, You didn't have to know shit.

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As a DPS spec, your damage output trumps utility. If utility meant more than DPS, everyone would roll Enhance shaman.

You apparently do not raid at a Heroic content level.

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Windwalkers do perform significantly better than any competitor though, only Mages come close in terms of single target DPS.

Are you speaking from a standpoint of with or without the Rune?

WW unless they have a Rune are just trash and with the Rune they can still be topped by Feral, Enhance & Rogues it just depends on the luck and timing of the proc on the trinket. If Rune lines up with your second trinket and the stars align you can hit higher peaks the most any class. The melee classes I listed are all within 5% of Windwalker and they don't need a special trinket to do it.

[Beefkow]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=216620/5...ated-july-12th

Scroll down to windwalker monks, they crossed out The Monk gains 1 charge of Tigereye Brew for every 4 Chi spent (down from 1 charge per 3 Chi spent).

So i think that means it takes 3 chi to generate 1 tigereye brew? i think that is pretty nice, compared to using 4 chi.

[Tangra]

Yeah, the other major issue people forget about is that WW dps is good for a melee, not all dps. Being top dog single-target melee, with barely any utility is not really an amazing place to be. Perhaps top ranged dps with no utility is balanced, but not top melee.

[Schaden]

As a DPS spec, your damage output trumps utility. If utility meant more than DPS, everyone would roll Enhance shaman.

Yet Enhance not only brings tons of utility, but the best single target burst in the game and better sustained dps than we do.

[Moncoko]

GC says WWers can't get any more utility because the arms race won't end well.

Time for those that were waiting to reroll.

[Tangra]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=216620/5...ated-july-12th

Scroll down to windwalker monks, they crossed out The Monk gains 1 charge of Tigereye Brew for every 4 Chi spent (down from 1 charge per 3 Chi spent).

Good catch, MMO people didn't seem to notice that. That's pretty exciting. I just hope they are OK with all these changes for PvP. At this point these improvements are starting to make a massive difference in PvP... not that WW is OP or anything, but going from about 50% damage at 10 stacks, to 60% damage and HEALING; plus being able to wait for 15 stacks resulting in 90% extra damage and healing; plus a now faster generation rate if they revered the nerf from 4 chi back to 3... that's some pretty drastic PvP buffs.

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GC says WWers can't get any more utility because the arms race won't end well.

Time for those that were waiting to reroll.

Lol yes because the one spec that doesn't have a raid cd getting one constitutes an arms race.

[Requital]

Good catch, MMO people didn't seem to notice that. That's pretty exciting. I just hope they are OK with all these changes for PvP. At this point these improvements are starting to make a massive difference in PvP... not that WW is OP or anything, but going from about 50% damage at 10 stacks, to 60% damage and HEALING; plus being able to wait for 15 stacks resulting in 90% extra damage and healing; plus a now faster generation rate if they revered the nerf from 4 chi back to 3... that's some pretty drastic PvP buffs.

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Lol yes because the one spec that doesn't have a raid cd getting one constitutes an arms race.

Nothing drastic about it, Still takes nearly double the amount of time to reach 15 that it took to reach 10. Currently @ 10 stacks I'm at 198% Damage buff so ya there is nothing good or drastic about going from 198% to 90% and it taking nearly double the time to get there.

[Tangra]

Nothing drastic about it, Still takes nearly double the amount of time to reach 15 that it took to reach 10. Currently @ 10 stacks I'm at 198% Damage buff so ya there is nothing good or drastic about going from 198% to 90% and it taking nearly double the time to get there.

Yeah, not for PvE just for PvP.

[Hinalover]

Nothing drastic about it, Still takes nearly double the amount of time to reach 15 that it took to reach 10. Currently @ 10 stacks I'm at 198% Damage buff so ya there is nothing good or drastic about going from 198% to 90% and it taking nearly double the time to get there.

At level 79 or below, yea it would take you longer to get to 15 stacks. But you have to realize the new Mastery is a chance to generate a second TeB. At 10,200 mastery; 7,200 plus the Mastery buff; that equate to 50% Chance to proc. At 50%, your at the same point as you are on live; where it will take you 30-37 seconds (depending on the T15 4-piece) to reach 15 stack. (10 stacks * 1.5 = 15 stacks)

At this point I'm not too worried about the 90% damage increase compared to the 197.567% TeB you have from a Rune buffed TeB. At least for me, only half of my TeB's are Rune buffed. So for you, a non-Rune buffed TeB is equal to 68.32%. That is an average of 132.943% TeB. That is NOT counting the fact that there will be down-time where you will not have TeB up at all.

I don't think they will bump up the TeB to 8-9% (132.943% / 15 = 8.863%), but 7% is the most I can see them bumping the value of TeB. Then from there either bump up the damage bonus of either Tiger stance or RSK debuff and/or maybe slight adjustment to the damage of any or none of the main abilities.

[Gondlem]

Unfortunately it's just a DPS buff. As long as our DPS is balanced (in the pack) I don't really care too much about that. What WW needs right now is raid utility comparable to other melee or they just won't be an option for SoO heroic progression.

[Beefkow]

I see this as being a pvp buff because we don't stack mastery, we go for crit.

While you got pve where you can get crazy procs (ex: rune of re-organization) and manage to get crazy mastery, this might make a big impact.

[GareBear]

GC says WWers can't get any more utility because the arms race won't end well.

Time for those that were waiting to reroll.

Why not just give WW access to Revival?

[Hinalover]

Why not just give WW access to Revival?

Personally I would much rather have Blizzard re-work Zen Med to work as a more concrete Raid cooldown instead of the current "Buffed up Grounding Totem" mechanic before they cave into giving WW's Revival. Yes giving Revival to WW would be an easy way out, but given how horribly designed Zen Med is, I would rather see them change Zen Med instead.

[GareBear]

Personally I would much rather have Blizzard re-work Zen Med to work as a more concrete Raid cooldown instead of the current "Buffed up Grounding Totem" mechanic before they cave into giving WW's Revival. Yes giving Revival to WW would be an easy way out, but given how horribly designed Zen Med is, I would rather see them change Zen Med instead.

hmmm, just a thought, but what if you could make one of the SEF clones channel zen med instead of the monk himself? and just be an aura of significant spell damage reduction? Just spitballing.

[Ezyah]

I like the fact everyone here still discussing about it like noone could actually believe GC thinks we re fine xD

[Deleted]

Making Zen med a good raid cd brings the problems of BrM and MW getting it too.

[Hinalover]

Making Zen med a good raid cd brings the problems of BrM and MW getting it too.

What about Healing Tide Totems for Shamans? Before 5.4 Almost every Shaman chose Healing Tide Totem (5.4 it's becoming baseline) for that tier. It didn't matter if you were resto, enhance, or ele, you still got it, and raid leaders asked for you to drop it. I'm fine with BrM and MW getting it since it gives raid leaders options. "The BrM is currently tanking Heroic Dark Animus, and we need CDs for the next two Interupting Jolts (which does 400k damage to all players). WW, get the first one, MW get the second. MW, use your Revival for the third one." It still gives us a reason to be in raid and to provide a meaningful cooldown.

What I'm saying is that if it's changed to something like Devotion Aura, where all specs have access to it and gives meaning to bringing a monk, no matter the spec, just for the cooldown, then I'm for it.

[Deleted]

Sure it would be nice, but as blizz have said they think there is too many raid cds already. MW getting both revival and good raid cd via zen med might be too much.

[Hinalover]

Sure it would be nice, but as blizz have said they think there is too many raid cds already. MW getting both revival and good raid cd via zen med might be too much.

If you want to be technical, Blizzard considers Zen Med AS a Raid Cooldown. Given that it is such a situational spell to begin with, most people don't use it as a raid cooldown, instead only using the 90% damage reduction as a personal cooldown. I can think of only 2 times this tier that it's useful as a "raid cooldown" and that is Megara's Rampage and Heroic Durumu's Dark Parasite. Hence the reason why I suggest reworking Zen Med before going after other Utility options.