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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    My problem with HST is, that it is a passive, and unreliable heal. It looks good on your logs, "oh it healed x amount in the whole fight, gg", but I want my heals to be direct. I want to control my spread healing. And HST also a really.. weird mini cooldown, 14 sec uptime (if you call it back) 30 sec cd. It is not really an active thing that you can rely on, it's just... there. I hoped that we get a REAL spread healing something.
    It's the most intelligent heal possible. You can totally rely on it supporting you.

    I think it's perfectly viable for 10m at least.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post
    Does this mean shamans can have 2 ascendance's now? Is ancestral guidance comparable to that at all? Or will every shaman just always take HST talent.
    Ascendance well is coming close when you reconsider AG having only 2min cd vs 3min.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    Source- http://www.wowhead.com/news=216425/5...dated-july-8th

    Shaman: Chain Heal's effectiveness will no longer decrease with each jump, and there's a new talent: Rushing Streams. This new talent replaces Healing Tide Totem, increases healing done by Healing Stream Totem by 100%, and causes the totem to heal 2 targets at once.

    CH now possibly worth the long cast and crap range (10m)?

    As for the new talent, I'm still not sure how Conductivity will pan out, so I'm holding off on calling what the best choice for that tier will be.
    On PRT, RS is only 15% more HST healing, not 100%.

  2. #122
    PTR is back up with the changes active. For people that are interested, the interaction between Rushing Streams and T15 2 pc is that HST heals 3 targets - 2 with the Rushing Streams buffed HST value, and a third for the 25% value through the 2pc. It does not double dip and hit 4 targets, if anyone was expecting that. Basically, the 2 pc doesn't really have increased value over live - the only real difference is that the 25% component heals for 15% more.

    Conductivity is still bugged and not properly adding 3 seconds to Healing Rain.

  3. #123
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    is conductivity doing anything at the moment?

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    is conductivity doing anything at the moment?
    It's sometimes adding 1 second, sometimes adding 3 seconds, sometimes not extending at all. It's just completely bugged.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    All healers have to contend with smart heals that are out of their control. Think of Prayer of Mending, Circle of Healing, Renewing Mists, Chi Wave, Eminence, Wild Growth, Treants. So many self-guided heals. It's just a way the game is played. I find it interesting and entertain to work within the limitations of the game.
    Exactly my concerns. HST is smart, but "only" heals 2 people at the same time for small-medium amount with a really weird cd, and/(but at least?) it ticks, while CoH, WG, Uplift are REAL, smart, instant, multitarget (5+) spread medium-high amount heals, with lower cd.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    It's the most intelligent heal possible. You can totally rely on it supporting you.

    I think it's perfectly viable for 10m at least.
    Absolute nonsense, jibber jabber and you're acting like you haven't considered or even read what the person to whom you're responding wrote.
    Last edited by Puhree; 2013-07-11 at 08:26 AM.

  7. #127
    The problems are still there - We will still have problems on heavy movement fights, we will still have problems on fights with heavy spreading (which is the case for most of fights in SoO so far). As someone said here and on PTR forums, increasing range of CH by some margin(like 5-7.5 yards) and giving us glyph which makes CH instant with CD(and perfectly with current CH glyph range increase) would help a lot our situation. Of course Buffs are cool, but didn't hit the spot ...

  8. #128
    Even without crit/mastery, my raid buffed healing stream chugs at 40k heals. RST would bump that to 46 and add a mirror, so 52k extra healing every 1.5 seconds. Well 11 extra events of 52k healing every 30 seconds (HST CD) seconds at my haste/latency. For a total of 572k healing, 19k hps increase in the form of smart healing (pre-crit/mastery) from the new talent, that works perfectly fine even during spread/movement.
    -Alternatively in 25's you can just take AG, lay down a HR on melee+tanks and pop AG... with the new 14 target DR cap, the HR will heal for more making AG heal for a ton even if you aren't spam casting heals.

    The healing rain radius buff also will allow for 4 yards of additional linear movement before people leave the rain while moving (assuming you "lead" them with your rain). So that helps.

    I agree that we still lack the tool that I really wanted, shaman Halo. A hard and fast counter to Thunderstruck/Interrupting Jolt, that would make mastery meaningful even in a 25 man setting (since hard casting usually gets you sniped).

    They've definitely done some work on the spread healing issue, but how close we should be to monks before they stop buffing spread is a matter of opinion.

    At least they are trying.

  9. #129
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Exactly my concerns. HST is smart, but "only" heals 2 people at the same time for small-medium amount with a really weird cd, and/(but at least?) it ticks, while CoH, WG, Uplift are REAL, smart, instant, multitarget (5+) spread medium-high amount heals, with lower cd.

    Perhaps i over reached when i was trying to make comparisons. but Healing Stream Totem is what it is. \

    • It is less like Uplift and more like Renewing mists.
    • It is less like Circle of Healing and more like Prayer of Mending,
    • it is less like Wild Growth and more like Treants.


    Basically i think the problem is most healers get one [instant smart AoE with a small CD] and one [self-targeting multiple heals in succession with a mid-length CD] and we only get the latter and not the former.

    - - - Updated - - -

    just give Resto Shaman Circle of Healing and call it a day.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2013-07-11 at 02:56 PM.

  10. #130
    If u have talent and 2 piece do all three people get 10% elemental reduction from glyph? I know it will be old content but a fight like Megaera would be helped greatly by blanket like that.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post
    Does this mean shamans can have 2 ascendance's now? Is ancestral guidance comparable to that at all? Or will every shaman just always take HST talent.
    AG is just the strongest talent in that tier with the recent HR and CH buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Ascendance well is coming close when you reconsider AG having only 2min cd vs 3min.
    In my opinion, AG is much more stronger than Ascendance.
    AG ist such a strong smartheal. as Healing Rain is copied so many times, you have very low amounts of overheal, if any healing is needed in the raid.

    Try it:

    World of Logs Twins 25man HC 11.07: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m...e/?s=155&e=572
    Last edited by Gathic; 2013-07-11 at 06:39 PM.

  12. #132
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Seeing that log, isn't AG going to be the undisputed top talent for 25 man in 5.4? It's already incredibly strong and the 14 man cap on HR is going to make it our #2 heal on just about any fight.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Seeing that log, isn't AG going to be the undisputed top talent for 25 man in 5.4? It's already incredibly strong and the 14 man cap on HR is going to make it our #2 heal on just about any fight.
    Short Answer: yes

    Long Answer: It will be highly dependant on fight/comp. without a good HR base for pushing AG out its not nearly as strong or ifthe number of burst healing parts are low or clumped together. RS will most likey be on par with AG on spread fights if not ahead unless there is a collaspe burst healing phase. However if its like IQ where they are 1 after another you will only get 1~2 uses and RS will outwiegh it for the encounter. Furthermore for a fight like Jinroc normal, you already have HTT and Ascendance (+SLT & new 4pc) for the burst phases so you will already be at CD overkill and a more passive effect might be better for you. Especially 25 man where healing CDs are SUPER abundant. However all these require the shaman to be smart and do a lot of planning for each fight.

    Final thought: anyone wanna try all these cds at once on tsulong?

  14. #134
    I just picked up my resto shaman after playing him in 5.0 and I'm not disappointed in LFR. 25mans they must be really good. I think a lot of people think resto shamans are bad because of 10 mans which don't really have much use for a shaman.
    you can follow my funny twitter here.

  15. #135
    Based on my math... before crit/mastery, not raid buffed... based on 34k HST ticks (11 per drop), 20k HR ticks, 55k CH per target (w/ RT)... in other words all of these numbers are low-ball
    RST (based on 34k HST tick size) is roughly 500k healing, smart heal every 30 seconds
    AG is roughly 2.7M healing every 2 min in 10 man (6 targets in rain), 840k healing/30 seconds. 4.7M healing in 25 man (14 targets in rain), 1.2M healing/30 seconds. (assuming 7 ticks of HR and 3 chain heals) Burst Smart
    Conductivity is roughly 513k extra healing every 30 seconds in 10 man (6 targets) and 1.2M extra healing in 25 man (14 targets). Sustained Blanket

    For conductivity:
    -the best non-conductivity situation was HR on CD, using UE half the time. I assumed 12 seconds between HR on average. @30% haste.
    -the best proc conductivity situation was UE-HR on CD, with 33.4% haste. Thus giving you a tick at just before 15 seconds, right before you create a new initial tick. Resulting in 3 additional ticks per cast. Keep in mind though that the non-conductivity casts more often, thus more initial ticks.

    Overall AG will likely give the most raw healing in 10 man if you are stationary and can get 6 people in rain. Conductivity competes raw, but OH will favor AG on any fight. Because of how much burst AG provides, on many encounters it might be overkill meaning you might get more healing from RST.

    For 25 man, if the raid is spread out but melee/tanks can all be in rain you'll likely experience something closer to a "stacked 10 man" experience. In any case AG looks to be the strongest. Conductivity would give the same boost in a continuously stacked fight aura damage fight, but it smart heals > blanket. It's going to be nearly impossible for RST to compete in 25's except in fights where AG is excessive overkill or the raid is really divided and split up so HR just can't power AG.

    Keep in mind my initial disclaimer, all of these numbers are low-ball estimates that do not take into account mastery/crit/raid buffs(that aren't shaman passives)/flask/food etc. And those numbers are from live (though the CH value I just assumed all bounces would hit for as much as the first).

  16. #136
    In your math did you consider using Call of the Elements for HST? You'd get 1 extra use of HST every 3 mins - with most fights in the 5-10 min range. Those extra uses could help narrow the gap between RST and the other talents.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    Short Answer: yes

    Long Answer: It will be highly dependant on fight/comp. without a good HR base for pushing AG out its not nearly as strong or ifthe number of burst healing parts are low or clumped together. RS will most likey be on par with AG on spread fights if not ahead unless there is a collaspe burst healing phase. However if its like IQ where they are 1 after another you will only get 1~2 uses and RS will outwiegh it for the encounter. Furthermore for a fight like Jinroc normal, you already have HTT and Ascendance (+SLT & new 4pc) for the burst phases so you will already be at CD overkill and a more passive effect might be better for you. Especially 25 man where healing CDs are SUPER abundant. However all these require the shaman to be smart and do a lot of planning for each fight.

    Final thought: anyone wanna try all these cds at once on tsulong?
    The final question is:
    Do you have to heal anyone as resto shaman if there is no collapse burst healing phase (in 25man raids)?
    In my opinion, you do not have to. There are plenty of smart heal abilities in low dmg income phases. Shaman is just very low at these parts of any fight.
    There are at least 7 people afflicted by Renewing Mist, Priest Atonement, Eternal Flame + Illuminated Healing, Allmighty Vengeance Chi Wave from our Brewmaster, Holy Prism from the Prot Paladin, Battle Healer Glyph or a Blood DK... etc. etc....

    You do not need any further passive smart heal in a 25man raid. You have to secure the high dmg income phases and AG is just ridiculous strong with theses HR and CH buffs...

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    In your math did you consider using Call of the Elements for HST? You'd get 1 extra use of HST every 3 mins - with most fights in the 5-10 min range. Those extra uses could help narrow the gap between RST and the other talents.
    No I didn't. Though note that for every HST you gain via CotE, you lose half of a normally occuring one. So really it's 0.5 extra HST every 3 minutes. 0.5 uses / 6 uses... 8.3% increase in value for RST. Not as huge impact. Though for actual raid encounters it'll be key sometimes.

    I also didn't math out the gains from using EM with AG. Since EM is only 30 seconds shorter than AG, getting 31% raid buffed haste, then popping EM+AG moves you to +70% haste (2 additional HR ticks during AG) plus would reduce CH's cast time from 1.9 seconds to 1.45 seconds letting you fit 1-2 extras in.

    I dunno. As a 25 man raider it seems obvious, AG. For 10's I'd lean default RST unless you can actually make full use of the AG burst.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitkanen View Post
    No I didn't. Though note that for every HST you gain via CotE, you lose half of a normally occuring one. So really it's 0.5 extra HST every 3 minutes. 0.5 uses / 6 uses... 8.3% increase in value for RST. Not as huge impact. Though for actual raid encounters it'll be key sometimes.

    I also didn't math out the gains from using EM with AG. Since EM is only 30 seconds shorter than AG, getting 31% raid buffed haste, then popping EM+AG moves you to +70% haste (2 additional HR ticks during AG) plus would reduce CH's cast time from 1.9 seconds to 1.45 seconds letting you fit 1-2 extras in.

    I dunno. As a 25 man raider it seems obvious, AG. For 10's I'd lean default RST unless you can actually make full use of the AG burst.
    Some of the other things you have to consider with AG vs RST

    -AG requires burning a LOT of mana to use to full effect, while RS doesn't require mana consumption over and above the spell rotation you'd use with or without the talent. That extra mana used on AG means that you will likely need to run at a higher Spirit level, and also potentially means that you will have to throttle your CH usage during the fight more because of the extra mana consumption.
    -AG is at its strongest when the raid is stacked and on things like Megaera rampage. If the raid can't be stacked in a Healing Rain, AG output drops from what we see on fights like Megaera on live, and won't likely account for up to 20% of your output.

    At 10% output from HST (excluding the 2pc proc), you should gain about 13% extra output from RS. AG has the potential to be higher - especially on stacked fights, but not needs to be higher to warrant the mana dump. I don't think it's clear cut that AG > RS for 25 man; it's probably going to be very fight dependent. I think that both are very well balanced talents, and that even Conductivity on a 100% stack fight is also viable.

  20. #140
    Field Marshal Placebo's Avatar
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    HST with RS was 21% of my healing on the Norushen encounter whilst pretty much everyone was stacked in healing rain for the entirety of the fight. Pretty nuts.

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