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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    This isn't final though, this is just buffing them to see how they'll do in the 25m testing. (Classes never get scaled of anything but 25man testing).

    There's 2 weeks to go, plenty of time to get everything sorted, and there's always hotfixes. I'm certain they'll get us at a good spot.
    So, they need to buff classes like rogues and warlocks that are already doing awesome dps (and warlocks have the best utility in the game that causes most raids to stack them anyway) for 25 man testing yet they didn't want to buff hunters that were already bad at everything, instead all they done was moved damage from arcane shot to signatures.

    In what universe does that make sense to you? Because it doesn't make sense in ours.... must be the dev coffee room universe filled with waccy baccy smoke.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    There's 2 weeks to go, plenty of time to get everything sorted, and there's always hotfixes. I'm certain they'll get us at a good spot.
    MoP Beta T14 25-man testing lead Blizzard to falsely believe that Survival was doing "unintended DPS". They completely ignored that Hunters were stacking old set bonuses (scaled up by testing), trinkets and weapons to abuse SV AoE in a way that would be impossible on Live. The result was a 50% nerf to SV that wasn't reverted until 5.1. Hunters spent the actual progression portion of most of T14 as the least-desired, most underpowered class due to a complete lack of cleave.

    T15 went Live with LoS and pathing bugs that were reported numerous times, by many top Hunters, bugs which still exist on Live for many fights. The first week of Heroic progression on Meg, Durumu and Primordius... Hunters were completely useless (hence why you see Warlocks and Ele Shaman and only the token gear-soak Hunters in the World race kills from that time period).

    This notion that we're going to wind up in a good spot because Blizzard vaguely hinted at the idea that we'd be fine? It's compliance by complacency. They label anyone who speaks out against them as "crazy", an "outlier", a "rager", and they get people to follow along like sheep with the idea that everything will be okay. No need to put in effort, make a phone call, get upset, or do anything other than sit there and suck at the subscription teat of mommy Blizzard.

    Too bad it HASN'T been okay, and they've been completely wrong for over a year. We have Bestial Wrath application bugs (0.3s delay on the execution of the actual effect versus when the buff is applied) for a year. We have pet AI and pathing issues that have existed for over a year. We have dots that aren't scaling properly with Haste, scaling issues with our abilities not being affected by our stats properly... and that has existed for over a year. There are issues reported on MoP Beta, that were promised to be looked at, that exist on Live as-is.

    The current Blizzard propaganda is that we'll be fixed in 6.0. If you believe that, I have some great real estate that I promise will be worth billions someday that I'm willing to sell cheap. Nothing is going to change until the Hunter community starts demanding Blizzard "show us the money" now. Not 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years from now... and this line that they're building our future... they build Mage's future on PTR with new animations and extensive testing immediately. Until you see artists, animators and a team of coders responding *instantly* to our issues, they haven't decided to fix them.

    Talk is cheap for Blizzard... that's why they give it to us.
    subrosian @ Whisperwind, Raid Leader <Victory or Whatever> 25-man 13/13H, vowguild.com

  3. #523
    How does Arcane shot cost more focus than the Survival signature shot? This seems like such bad design.. IMO Arcane shot should cost about 25 focus and Explosive shot should cost 30 focus and have their damage tuned accordingly.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Affliction is receiving minor buffs due to the fact that they can't use Malefic Grasp on the move anymore, which is a big portion of their damage.
    Malefic Grasp has been back on the Kil'Jaeden's Cunning talent again for over a month now. Affliction only has to stop to cast Haunt or reapply Unstable Affliction.

  5. #525
    2P setbonus is down to 4seconds for BM now.

    My avarage arcane shot crits on the raid target dummy is 115K. 60K avarage hit for 30 focus, blizzard are frikking retaded.

    Even with the changes to KC my bite does WAY more damage then kill command, while having 20-25% higher crit chance.

    What a complete joke of a patch atm.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    2P setbonus is down to 4seconds for BM now.

    My avarage arcane shot crits on the raid target dummy is 115K. 60K avarage hit for 30 focus, blizzard are frikking retaded.

    Even with the changes to KC my bite does WAY more damage then kill command, while having 20-25% higher crit chance.

    What a complete joke of a patch atm.
    If that's true for the 2 piece, then that should bring it down to roughly 4.5k dps, which is where the 4 piece is also at. That's also roughly 2k worse than set bonuses from live t15. If that does go through, all warforged offset pieces should be at least as good as having set bonuses. That would be a new low for this expansion.

  7. #527
    Stood in the Fire
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    well maybe for BM or SV thats true, but in a hypothetical case where they buff MM enough to bring it in par with SV or even BM on ST, both bonus are really strong for MM compared to SV or BM, as both synergize really well. But then the spec would be totally dependant on having the 4 pieces

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeth View Post
    Your logic is frightening. "Surprisingly well" is not the same thing as "optimal." Sure, if you just throw on any set of same-ilvl agility mail and don't reforge anything other than hit/expertise, you'll be able to do "okay." The point of theorycrafting and number crunching, however, is not to do simply ... "okay."

    Mastery lags far behind the other two stats. Enough that prioritizing it will cost you a kill on a farm boss? No. But you'll still do more damage prioritizing haste or crit. And that might make the difference on a progression fight (do people still bring hunters to those?).
    Funnily enough I only lost 3k dps according to sims going that reforge. Then I ranked 16th on Lei Shen.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabloks View Post
    Funnily enough I only lost 3k dps according to sims going that reforge. Then I ranked 16th on Lei Shen.
    Lei Shen is one of the fights where Mastery is more acceptable, though. It's not a pure singletarget "tank and spank" - to get a rank on Lei Shen, you have to AOE like crazy - and if you time your beast cleaving of the balls with 5x stacks of Frenzy, it devalues haste a fair bit (due to already being at an insanely high level), possibly pushing mastery ahead.
    Looking at your log, you only had 2x warlocks and a shadow priest going "full out" on the AOE of the balls, apart from yourself - everyone else is mostly just leaving them be, or passively cleaving them - not really trying to obliterate them. That's a sure way to get ranked, and not something alot of people can "afford" to do, either because their guild can't, or because it's unwilling to "boost" a person to ranks.

    With that said, it's been known for a long time that the difference between the secondary stats is extremely small. Both haste and Crit are "RNG"-stats, relying on (for haste) proc'ing more bonuses, or (for crit) RNG favoring your crits.
    Mastery is the only "passive" stat that has a linear scale, and it scales with both haste and crit :3.

  10. #530
    But why are they nerfing arcane shot while they are buffing all other primary shots to compensate Readiness...I don't get this tbh

  11. #531
    Sorry, Mega. I probably shouldn't post from work when I'm feeling argumentative.

  12. #532
    Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

    General
    Corruption damage has been increased by 10%.
    Immolate damage has been increased by 10%.
    Affliction
    Agony damage has been increased by 16%.
    Drain Soul no longer energizes Soul Shards from the pets and guardians of players, and now deals 34% less damage. If other periodic Affliction damage effects are triggered by Drain Soul, they now deal 60% of their normal damage (down from 100%).
    Malefic Grasp now deals 34% less damage, and causes all of the Warlock's other periodic Affliction damage effects to instantly deal 30% of their normal periodic damage (down from 50%).
    Unstable Affliction damage has been increased by 21%.

    It annoys me when i see warlocks getting buffed , they are already doing well , there is a huge difference between our dps and what warlocks/mage/chamans do , we don`t bring anything special to the raid and we are still getting nerfed , most of the guildes don`t want to have more than 1 or 2 hunters in their raids , we became useless , look at the streams of the best guildes , they keep relying on warlocks , mages and chamans sometimes they don`t have a single hunter in their raids .
    It makes laugh when i see blizzard nerfing the AS shot back again et increasing the cost of it (OMG it`s our focus dump ) .
    I checked on femaledwarf yesterday after the last update of the website and i don`t see any gain of dps with the nerf of the RPPM trinkets we lost lot of dps and even with the buff of KC/AI and ES we didn`t gain lot , our dps is the same, we would like blizzard to review the increase of the cost of focus of AS and buff all our signature shots not just Aimed shot or at least giving the MM back their readiness , they have promised they would do huge changes and improve our dps , so would like to see improvement ^^ .
    Last edited by supermacy; 2013-08-15 at 11:12 AM.

  13. #533
    Curious ... after the RPPM nerf, how much of a dps gain is the legendary meta over the crafted agi/critdmg gem?

  14. #534
    Stood in the Fire
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    the meta is not affected. tho they lowered its base ppm a bit.
    the 2 piece for MM is also 4 sec, like BM. really underwhelming. After switching from 4pct15 to 4pc16 (trying to keep agi the same and secondary stats the same, to compare bonuses) it is a DPS loss, for all 3 specs, maybe the 4 set for SV is better. I couldn't see at any moment the 4 piece in my buffs for BM, not with elvui or default ui. RPPM trinkets with a 10 sec duration sucks, even with double ppm. But that is for all classes.
    Last edited by pichuca; 2013-08-15 at 12:45 PM.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
    Hunters spent the actual progression portion of most of T14 as the least-desired, most underpowered class due to a complete lack of cleave.
    Yet there were only 3 aoe fights (out of 16) and even there hunters were viable (yes i play hunter). Plus i don't recall not seing hunters in CM's at start of MOP.

    With the rest of your post i agree.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Bestrafer View Post
    Yet there were only 3 aoe fights (out of 16) and even there hunters were viable (yes i play hunter). Plus i don't recall not seing hunters in CM's at start of MOP.

    With the rest of your post i agree.
    You've got to be kidding, right? Being "viable" weeks after the top end has done the progress means nothing. The only fights in the entire tier that hunters were sort of good for, was:

    WOTE (1 min CD on spark soaking).
    Vizier (heavy movement).
    Blade Lord (Heavy movement).
    Lei Shi (Heavy movement).

    That's it. FOr every other fight, hunters were absolute shit? Protectors? NVM; pet not affected by the dmg% buff. Tsulong? All other casters did far more dmg as they didn't have to rely on focus upkeep to burst down adds. Sha? Multidotters/AOE dream. Hunters were used as ball-bitches because of how Deterrence could block the emerge and did decent AOE to the adds, but lots of classes did far better.

    I could go on, but not really in the mood. Suffice to say, Hunters, before the buff they got in 5.1 (look it up - 100% serpent sting dmg etc) were utter shit.

  17. #537
    it's ok guys.. hunters are always taken to challenge modes.. we are more than viable.

  18. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
    They've unbanned my account both times (waiting on the 24 hours to fall off on B.NET). The only change they made out of my list was to remove the focus cost of Dash. And yes, that change was because of me... it took two voicemails to Greg Street, a voicemail to Rob Pardo, several emails, two perma-bans and dozens of hours of emails and letter writing, but by god I got the focus cost removed from Dash (hold your applause, I was trying for actual fixes... I obviously failed).
    You think very highly of yourself.

    I made a post about how the PTR DoC change nerfed cleaving, AoE, multi-dotting, and made it useless during BitW range for ferals. Other people pointed it out too but it was clearly my post that was the sole reason the devs reverted the change. Clearly.

    How do you hunters stand by and let this hooligan post here? All he does is post hyperbole and nonsense with a little substance thrown in at times for good measure.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Dysheki View Post
    How do you hunters stand by and let this hooligan post here? All he does is post hyperbole and nonsense with a little substance thrown in at times for good measure.
    I think most are just ignoring him. If he thinks he is the one and only savior of the Hunter class, so be it. It's not really hurting me in any way.
    Besides it's amusing to read from time to time.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    I think most are just ignoring him.
    That's good to hear. Just wanted to double check.

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