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  1. #161
    I am reading all your smarty pants number crunching and - honestly - i do not care.

    I am just so much happy that Readiness is gone
    ... happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy!

    May you fester in the worst infernal hole in hell, Readiness.
    Tinker + Alchemist in a single class:
    Tank spec: robotics, steampunk hammers/chainsaws, grappling hooks and heavy machinery.
    Melee dps spec: doping yourself with chems and tossing vicious acids on the enemies.
    Ranged dps: rockets, lasers, TNT critters and explosives, shrink rays and sapper mines.
    Healing spec: chemical sprays, needles, exploding flasks and other chemical type abilities to heal.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by kidsafe View Post
    The only thing that killed my pet on Dark Shaman was Ashen Wall. That can be avoided by tanks learning how to move just far enough...and will do reduced damage to pets by the time 5.4 is live.


    BM is superior to SV on practically every fight in ToT except Ji-kun at this point. On fights with 3-4 targets I only hit multi-shot every 4 seconds...it's not something you spam unless you have many, many targets.
    The targetted poison-wave thing also killed my pet (as it's not theoretically AOE, but a piercing shot in a direction).

    And just to emphasize - Surv isn't superior to BM because it's AOE capabilities are stronger. They're pretty close.
    Surv will be stronger due to the way the encounters are laid out, as it currently is (targets spread far apart) - both because Blink strikes CD is too long to reliably target switch, and because Surv can actually dot stuff up.

    Stool - you're forgetting to include focus in those calculations, Arcane shot costs double as much as serpent sting.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by asdfsaf View Post
    if that's the case i'd be okay with it. i wonder where you get your certainty from, though.






    >>> (3-1)/1.39*60
    86.33093525179856

    86 seconds according to my math. also, balancing an ability around one trinket seems a bit odd to me.
    Blizzard always balances everything around 2/4set, legendary procs and trinkets.

    Been like that for a long time, certain classes are more heavily balanced around it than others.

    Demo locks, shadow priest and boomkins are a fine example of it, their interaction with the lei shen trinket.
    ----

    WoD Launch date on 28/10 OR 11/11 OR 18/11. Updated on 01/08/2014.

    ----

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Blizzard always balances everything around 2/4set, legendary procs and trinkets.

    Been like that for a long time, certain classes are more heavily balanced around it than others.

    Demo locks, shadow priest and boomkins are a fine example of it, their interaction with the lei shen trinket.

    Except that boomkins doesn't use the lei shen trinket because it's shit for them.
    The meta gem also has different proc rates for every spec (both the caster and the physical one) to make sure they're all roughly equal in dps (8-10K depending on gear).
    So your statement doesn't really make sense.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Except that boomkins doesn't use the lei shen trinket because it's shit for them.
    The meta gem also has different proc rates for every spec (both the caster and the physical one) to make sure they're all roughly equal in dps (8-10K depending on gear).
    So your statement doesn't really make sense.
    Yeah ok maybe not boomkins.

    But spriest and demo locks are balanced around it, why you think they have a significant dps jump after getting the trinket?

    Right because it's deliberately balanced around it.
    ----

    WoD Launch date on 28/10 OR 11/11 OR 18/11. Updated on 01/08/2014.

    ----

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Stool - you're forgetting to include focus in those calculations, Arcane shot costs double as much as serpent sting.
    There's no need. They are both using the same amount of focus and GCDs. With bestial wrath and the fact that BM shoots off more arcane shots, it wouldn't be worth calculating all the circumstances due to how much it would differ. Regardless, you'd still need to make up a lot more dps when you aren't multi dotting during the fight or if you are only dotting a single target.

    I'm not going to calculate using signature shots because you will use them regardless.

    Also, roughly it turns out BM gains more out of the deal. You'd get 4 off every minute and that means that at least one (or two) of the 15 focus saved from using serpent sting will be used during BW. With 60 focus saved from using serpent sting and 15 of that being used in bestial wrath. In 5.4 that's 1 or 2 extra arcane shots. With ~60k arcane shots for SV and ~50k for BM would put that it at 130k damage (with 1 under BW) and for SV that would put it at 120k. If it isn't sustained and not used under BW then BM still has the edge due to its single target damage. With 10k extra damage coming from BM, that puts it at 666.6 dps over 15 seconds. Which would put SV's total (after subtracting that) to 3666.73 dps. I lose 12634.11 from going SV. You'd actually need 4 targets to make SV better.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-07-13 at 05:13 PM.

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  7. #167
    Blue said once (somewhere around 5.2) they don't balance the class around meta / sets / trinkets - they should give roughly the same DPS to all and everybody.

    In reality, we can see this is not really applicable to UVLS.

  8. #168
    Brewmaster Marxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I never mash the deterrence button, though. I have /stopcasting in front of it too, so there's no reason, really. As said, I don't pvp, meaning this is purely for PvE use - name me one boss where I'd want to mash deterrence in order to get the use on it off. One click to activate, one click to deactivate, done.
    I have the /cancelaura Deterrence macro'd into my Cobra Shot, Explosive Shot, and Kill Command. It's much safer than risking an accidental double press of your macro getting you killed.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    There's no need. They are both using the same amount of focus and GCDs. With bestial wrath and the fact that BM shoots off more arcane shots, it wouldn't be worth calculating all the circumstances due to how much it would differ. Regardless, you'd still need to make up a lot more dps when you aren't multi dotting during the fight or if you are only dotting a single target.

    I'm not going to calculate using signature shots because you will use them regardless.

    Also, roughly it turns out BM gains more out of the deal. You'd get 4 off every minute and that means that at least one (or two) of the 15 focus saved from using serpent sting will be used during BW. With 60 focus saved from using serpent sting and 15 of that being used in bestial wrath. In 5.4 that's 1 or 2 extra arcane shots. With ~60k arcane shots for SV and ~50k for BM would put that it at 130k damage (with 1 under BW) and for SV that would put it at 120k. If it isn't sustained and not used under BW then BM still has the edge due to its single target damage.

    On the other hand, BM would use Dire Beast due to mastery scaling, and Surv will use thrill of the hunt due to the importance of arcane shots next tier. I'm not exactly sure that BM will get to use "more" arcane shots than Surv, concidering the fact that their signature shots (KC vs Explo+BA every fourth explo) are roughly the same focus cost. You might have BW up to be able to "spam" arcane shots, but the same is going to be true for Surv and thrill of the hunt, along with the 4pc giving us more free explosive shots = more focus saved to be spent on arcane shots.

    Realisticly, though, we won't see who's right untill the sims are updated.

    Note that something you are also forgetting is "Proc-dotting" for Surv. On a fight like Protectors, if you have, say, bad juju and renataki up at the same time, you'd spend your serpent sting when renataki is at high stacks before juju falls off. This makes for some extremely potent serpent stings that you can let run the full duration. I'm not saying you can't do it as BM, but it's more beneficial to plan around it as Surv because you'd want to try and burst as much as possible under trinkets for BM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    I have the /cancelaura Deterrence macro'd into my Cobra Shot, Explosive Shot, and Kill Command. It's much safer than risking an accidental double press of your macro getting you killed.
    For the fifth time - I haven't ever gotten killed by accidentelly pressing the button twice :3. I'm not entirely sure if every top end hunter has an issue with their "trigger fingers" or something, but to me it has never been an issue. Mashing it in a PvE scenario is dumb, so I don't do it. Precision is key.
    (Also, oftopic, if you're the Marxman from Death jesters, fix your damn leg gems <___<. It hurts to look at).

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    On the other hand, BM would use Dire Beast due to mastery scaling, and Surv will use thrill of the hunt due to the importance of arcane shots next tier. I'm not exactly sure that BM will get to use "more" arcane shots than Surv, concidering the fact that their signature shots (KC vs Explo+BA every fourth explo) are roughly the same focus cost. You might have BW up to be able to "spam" arcane shots, but the same is going to be true for Surv and thrill of the hunt, along with the 4pc giving us more free explosive shots = more focus saved to be spent on arcane shots.

    Realisticly, though, we won't see who's right untill the sims are updated.

    Note that something you are also forgetting is "Proc-dotting" for Surv. On a fight like Protectors, if you have, say, bad juju and renataki up at the same time, you'd spend your serpent sting when renataki is at high stacks before juju falls off. This makes for some extremely potent serpent stings that you can let run the full duration. I'm not saying you can't do it as BM, but it's more beneficial to plan around it as Surv because you'd want to try and burst as much as possible under trinkets for BM.
    Ok, fine. I agree that BM using more arcane shots was a bad point, but you cannot just dismiss my math and reasoning. With the slightly extra damage done from scaling more due to mastery, that would just make up for the extra damage BM has on arcane shots if you constantly have a buffed up dot. Which isn't something you usually have up all the time. So, it should be lower in actuality. BM also gets more out of the buffs in 5.4 thus far, so more damage would need to be compensated by SrS for it to actually be better.

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  11. #171
    Brewmaster Marxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    (Also, oftopic, if you're the Marxman from Death jesters, fix your damn leg gems <___<. It hurts to look at).
    Hah, good call. I ignored the set bonus before because I was hugely over hit cap.

  12. #172
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Thought I would mention this tweet from GC: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...69971937722369

    @Bunzato None. We will likely work to make the 3 hunter and rogue specs play a little more differently from each other.

    About damn time for next expansion.

  13. #173
    Does anyone else hope that they change Rapid Fire into being a more potent DPS cooldown? Always felt like they could make it a lot better by just giving it maybe something like +10% attack power while active. It'd obviously be kind of a problem with the set bonus and the new trinkets, just something I've always thought would be an easy fix to make it a stronger CD.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Blizzard always balances everything around 2/4set, legendary procs and trinkets.

    Been like that for a long time, certain classes are more heavily balanced around it than others.

    Demo locks, shadow priest and boomkins are a fine example of it, their interaction with the lei shen trinket.
    when balancing around trinkets, they would tweak the trinkets, not abilities. well, at least i would.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    I am reading all your smarty pants number crunching and - honestly - i do not care.

    I am just so much happy that Readiness is gone
    ... happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy!

    May you fester in the worst infernal hole in hell, Readiness.
    So much this.

  16. #176
    I really hope they do remove Readiness. I fucking hate that ability, makes my openers feel like playing the piano.

  17. #177
    blizzard is listening. i give em credit right now a bit

  18. #178
    So how is hunter DPS looking like on the PTR compared to other classes with all these changes? What's our DPS looking like? Haven't had a chance to look through this thread.

  19. #179
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heenk View Post
    I really hope they do remove Readiness. I fucking hate that ability, makes my openers feel like playing the piano.
    Just keeping up the readiness hate, it was a stupid talent to add to Survival and Beast master specs.

  20. #180
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    This is neat but I'm still hoping to see Warlock level class overhaul done to Hunter and Rogue, especially hunters.

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