Thread: Prot Nerfs

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  1. #81
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdie View Post
    I don't understand why they would want us to go for avoidance stats, Tanking is already pretty boring as it is, stand there let boss whack you taunt on debuff. The thing that makes Tanking fun for me, and I'm sure others as well is trying to take the least amount of dmg to progress the encounters while doing as much DPS as possible. If they move away from tanks doing DPS, que times will be a lot longer. I for one will stop tanking and im sure others will as well.
    With you on this. I have always hated Prot Paladin because of how sluggish it was. Being able to use Haste has made it way more fun than anything else I've played in this game.

    I'm in the camp that is hoping for traditional tanking gear to disappear next expansion and move Warriors + DKs completely into DPS pieces with crit/haste +mastery on
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Monks are fine with passive absorbs but paladins are not with passive healing?
    Monk 'passive' (I put it in quotes because you still do have to somewhat babysit the statue to get best effective out of it, see: Iron Qon) absorb cannot hit the monk. So you're comparing apples and oranges. Please don't.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    haste build smooths out playing a paladin IMMENSELY, just like it does for Retribution. I would fucking HATE this class if I was sitting on 4.5+ second CDs on every one of my abilities. Why do you say haste needs to be nerfed even more? What is the reasoning behind this?
    as he stated he is attached to the old, less enjoyable, and currently inferior builds for pally tanking.





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  4. #84
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woceip View Post
    Monk 'passive' (I put it in quotes because you still do have to somewhat babysit the statue to get best effective out of it, see: Iron Qon) absorb cannot hit the monk. So you're comparing apples and oranges. Please don't.
    The current(live) glyph of Battle Healer can't hit yourself either, so it is actually a fairly valid comparison (though the guards from the statue tend to be far better as the risk of overhealing is almost non-existent).
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  5. #85
    Took them long enough.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    as he stated he is attached to the *old, less enjoyable, and currently inferior builds for pally tanking.
    Don't forget *skilless

    That poor guy can't keep up

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Woceip View Post
    Monk 'passive' (I put it in quotes because you still do have to somewhat babysit the statue to get best effective out of it, see: Iron Qon) absorb cannot hit the monk. So you're comparing apples and oranges. Please don't.
    If you have to babysit your statue as brm your attention span is not really high. Also, paladins BH cannot hit the paladin himself so...
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Anybody thought about blizzard wanting us to drop Haste?

    Maybe thats some sort of "we dont wanna retune the haste scaling this late in the expansion, so lets give em a reason not to stack haste".

    I mean, less haste means less mana spend so could go into this direction

    Buff to Avoidance to compensate our lost damage abit on single target fights


    How much haste would you need to reduce in order to not go oom?


    But then again, Blizzard is prolly just throwing around some stuff to see how it fits. Like when they gave us baseline Sacred (Holy) Shield + talented Eternal Flame and every Holy Paladin cried like a baby for nerfing their class to the ground.

    I will begin to worry when there is a release candidate on the PTR :-)
    I mean, I guess it could be "let's throw this handful of shit at the wall and see what sticks" type of balancing pass, but why even mess with it now? They just got done saying that they abhor making passes on classes mid expac (since they cite that as the main reason for sub loss), then go and make a huge change (SOI) and 2 pretty aggravating ones (BH, GC) in one pass.

    I like your optimism, but I don't share it. Even if they're only tacking on the daftness of the SOI change for the purpose of reverting it later (when they see 0-haste prots going OOM in < 3min), it's basically serving the purpose of "buffing by not-nerfing" that Ret got when they tried to royally destroy Seal of Justice, only to revert it to current form and call it buffed.

    "We're going to break both of your legs. And an arm." "WTF Why?" "Fine, fine. Only 1 leg. And a finger. Aren't we nice?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  9. #89
    Scarab Lord Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky303 View Post
    Well I do click them fast enough. One sec, i log out in my Prot Spec

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dwars/advanced

    I just tried it 5 min again, I never ever fall under 40k Mana.

    Edit: Armory link in english ^^
    Are you using your level 90 talent also? I only did damaging skills (CS, Shield, Judge, Slam, Wrath, Cons, Prism) under a normal tanking priority and went oom after 1min45. I even used Holy Avenger so I had a period where every other GCD was free.

    No taunts, no CC, no hands, no speed of light, no cleanse, no rebuffing, no interrupts

    I have 37.99% Haste
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-07-09 at 02:20 PM.
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Are you using your level 90 talent also? I only did damaging skills (CS, Shield, Judge, Slam, Wrath, Cons, Prism) under a normal tanking priority and went oom after 1min45. I even used Holy Avenger so I had a period where every other GCD was free.

    No taunts, no CC, no hands, no speed of light, no cleanse, no rebuffing, no interrupts

    I have 37.99% Haste
    Was out in ~60sec with 42%ish haste. I think he may have still had SOI on or something, else he is just veerrryyyy sloooowww at pushing buttons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Funky303 View Post
    Well I do click them fast enough. One sec, i log out in my Prot Spec

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dwars/advanced

    I just tried it 5 min again, I never ever fall under 40k Mana.

    Edit: Armory link in english ^^
    You'd be better off posting in the "fix my tanking" thread than here. I reported you to the RSPPP (Royal society for the Protection of Prot Palas) What you did to him should be illegal.

    Pure stam gems, str and haste gems, haste and stam gems, str and stam gems, str and dodge.

    You have eternal flame talented as prot and have 11.5% hit some of which you can reforge away.

  12. #92
    oom in 1.30 just with dmg prio (no cleance, taunt etc.) with about 18k haste....cant imagine this going live since you could throw your hybrid capabilitys down the shitter with the amount of mana they cost

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by kuroma View Post
    oom in 1.30 just with dmg prio (no cleance, taunt etc.) with about 18k haste....cant imagine this going live since you could throw your hybrid capabilitys down the shitter with the amount of mana they cost
    Or, like....taunt, interrupt, and defensive CDs. You know, TANK abilities too.

    WTB blue post clarifying this stupidity. Forums are down for maintenance, QQ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  14. #94
    Mechagnome Lethora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Or, like....taunt, interrupt, and defensive CDs. You know, TANK abilities too.

    WTB blue post clarifying this stupidity. Forums are down for maintenance, QQ.
    I could've made a post on EU forums but you know, it's EU, we never get blue answers on relevant stuff.
    Lethora, 100 Protection Paladin, Shadowsong-EU
    Amberglow, 100 Assassination Rogue, Shadowsong-EU

  15. #95
    Battle Healer change isn't a big deal tbh. It doesn't really do much healing maybe 6k in a 10 man, and the new version has the potential to be a lot more efficient.

    The GC change is disappointing. Blizzard should just throw in the towel with avoidance for everyone. No one likes the stat on gear, it isn't fun and is only useful in solving a problem that no one needs fixing(total damage reduction). I really hope we see a tank overhaul to make crit/haste valuable to plate tanks in 6.0.

    SoI change is probably aimed at holy but hit prot as collateral damage. I'll give blizzard the benefit of the doubt that prot mana will get fixed. Otherwise my monk is getting fairly geared for tanking and ret isn't too bad for a dps spec.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by tuesday the paladin View Post
    Battle Healer change isn't a big deal tbh. It doesn't really do much healing maybe 6k in a 10 man, and the new version has the potential to be a lot more efficient.
    True, it's really not a huge deal. I do wish it was a toggle-able ability, though, instead of a glyph. That way, we could swap during high/low AOE raid damage portions to make the most of it. As it is now, it's a bit too cut-n-dry for me.

    The GC change is disappointing. Blizzard should just throw in the towel with avoidance for everyone. No one likes the stat on gear, it isn't fun and is only useful in solving a problem that no one needs fixing(total damage reduction). I really hope we see a tank overhaul to make crit/haste valuable to plate tanks in 6.0.
    This is the least "nerfy" of the nerfs. It's a net gain on 3+ targets, and will likely encourage some weird abuse (like pulling trash with boss for loldmg, as firefly has already posited). My gripe with this is that it is a "nerf to fun"; it removes the active part of GC, where we get the proc from pushing buttons instead of just getting hit in the face. It also nerfs fun when you abuse the new mechanics by pulling tons of adds, making your rotation into AS,AS,AS,ShotR, repeat.

    And I completely agree with (and have been lobbying for) the removal of D/P from the game for the entire expansion. Keep the innate avoidance from STR/AGI, but remove the stats and all they stand for; use the pala model (or druid or monk model) to make other scale with haste/crit. The mechanics are already there for DKs (haste = rune speed, just needs a better scalar) and Warriors (Crit can affect SBlock AND SBar now, ta-da!).

    What's unfortunate, is that all of the actual TANKS that are coming up with these good ideas are being drowned out by butthurt and/or confused/ignorant DPS that have lines like "you should WANT tank stats" or "Dodge and parry is what tanks do, its how you take less damage, dummy". I fear that Blizz sees this verbal diahhrea and concludes that these troglodytes speak for the actual tank populus.

    SoI change is probably aimed at holy but hit prot as collateral damage. I'll give blizzard the benefit of the doubt that prot mana will get fixed. Otherwise my monk is getting fairly geared for tanking and ret isn't too bad for a dps spec.
    I really hope that they have an explanation here. I don't mind the removal of the mana component if GbtL is buffed commensurately, BUT I do worry that we'd need to see GbtL buffed to ~10-15% mana per 2sec (up from 6%), which could potentially allow for FOL "spam" more than intended, which means we'd be on the chopping block for something. OR, they could reintroduce the old Sanctuary mechanic where we got %mana on each dodge/parry. Please, baby jesus, not that.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-07-09 at 04:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  17. #97
    I hate these changes but that's probably because I'm a protection paladin .

    The SoI change is really stupid. I also hate the Grand Crusader change. The Battle Healer change will make me use another DPS glyph now (yay more people will complain about our DPS again).

    Now I know why they nerfed Alabaster Shield Glyph.

    I agree they should just remove avoidance and make them scale with our primary stat (str). Secondary stats should be work like:

    Haste increases the frequency that you can use your mitigation ability.
    Mastery improves your mitigation ability.
    Crit gives you a chance of doubling (or more/less I don't know) your mitigation.

    It'd make these stats a lot more fun.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Funky303 View Post
    All our mana consumers:

    Blinding Light: 4800
    Hands: 4200
    Consec: 4200
    Avenger's Shield: 4200
    Hand of Salvation: 3200
    Judgement: 3000
    Holy Wrath: 3000
    Fist of Justice (Talent): 2106
    Reckoning (Taunt): 2100
    Div Protection: 2100
    Guarded by the Light is 2700 mana per 1.5s (GCD). Add to this another 900 from base combat regen (5% per 5s) and you're up to 3600. Cycling through anything more than Crusader Strike / Judgment / Wrath will gradually drain your mana based upon your haste.

    I really don't know how you ever get OOM in 30 sec.
    I really don't know how you don't.
    Last edited by Kaeth; 2013-07-09 at 04:50 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeth View Post
    Guarded by the Light is 2700 mana per 1.5s (GCD). The only spells on your list that cost less than that amount are a 30- and ~40-second cooldown and a taunt.
    It's 1800 mana per 1.0 sec, which is GCD cap, which is what most of us are approaching. CS/HotR alone 1800 mana.

    CS, J, X = 1800 + 3000 + 4200(filler of choice), totalling 9000 mana for 3 GCDs, or 3.0 seconds. Rounding it up to 3.5 sec, that's still 2571 mana per sec OUT, while only 1800 mana per sec IN.

    Next "round" is CS, X, J: different order, but same total expenditure.

    Then we have CS, X, X: 1800 + 4200 + 4200 = 10200 mana, 2914 MPS OUT, still only 1800 MPS IN.

    Taunts, interrupts, utility spells, and even defensive cooldowns all ALSO cost mana, some VERY expensive (Rebuke @ 7020 mana).

    Do you still not see how we go dry?
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-07-09 at 04:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  20. #100
    I'd just calm down, why would they ruin an entirely specc in such a dumb way? They'll either reduce your mana cost by another percentage and link that to Sanctuary or simply reverse the change for prot.

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