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  1. #101
    The beginning of "pay to win".

  2. #102
    they had 2 change WW mastery otherwise Rune of Re-Origination would had been the BiS till next Exp

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by VanishO2 View Post
    "The sky is falling! You should all take a deep breath an realize that they're just pets and mounts"

    "hi dear blizzard customers, we're implementing the realid system and thanks to the success of the pet/mount selling, we're selling it as a subscribe service and..."

    See where we are going? Oh, you weren't around when they tried to $$ the realid? Sad.

    And who said you won't be able to bypass the redeem limit? LoL... it's $$. That those charms will even obey the in-game redeem rules?

    When you start charging for stuff, you actually need to make it viable and interesting to buy instead of farm. That's what every single cash shop game does. They're checking if they can deal with the uproar by releasing tiny infos about the itens... "ah, it's just a xp boost", "well... i don't even farm lesser charms anymore...", "hummm... an extra raid lockout per week? I guess it won't change the game...", always the "it's random drop anyway". "Increase your bonus roll drop chances with Store Fortune Elixer Boost...".

    A game I've played for years before WoW, they started just like that, the game died. "it's just a xp potion", but the game started taking 1% xp of you if you died, "it's just a ticket for extra something"... in the end, you could buy even SELF-battle resses...

    They start selling convenient stuff, things to just ease or improve QoL... but QoL, convenience, etc. is all relative. Soon buying a characters, gear, etc... can be considered improved QoL.

    I can easily bet my money on a rep gain booster for next xpac with them going again with all this rep gatting madness for everthing in the game.
    That's a TON of assumptions on your part. Since you're apparently some sort of psychic, can I get this week's lotto numbers? These are totally quality of life items they are selling. If they still gate xp gain at whatever it is for top output with the leveling items we already have, the only people who would buy these is those who don't have that gear already. Furthermore, getting the lesser charms is easy already. Merely being able to pay instead of farm for them is a QoL improvement. It is NO DIFFERENT than spending an hour doing dailies or farming Barrens bosses, they just have more income and less time. And I think this is what it really all comes down to. Jealousy has a way of tainting someone's perception of life.

    EDIT: Oh, and I've played up until last month from launch. When my guild started screwing me out of loot with these odd rules, I knew that the community had soured enough for me to bail, and I am playing Rift until FFXIV:ARR or EQNext launches. There was NEVER a plan to sell RealId as an extra sub. It was more conjecture and assumption from people like you that started that rumor.
    Last edited by Ganksinatra; 2013-07-09 at 05:36 PM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfyre27 View Post
    The funny thing is that's pretty much what they are offering. Technically speaking by offering to sell lesser charms they are by proxy offering to sell you the best gear in game. You can't truthfully say that they aren't. As I pointed out lesser charms lead to a chance at gear. For heroic raiders this means that you can technically speaking purchase thunderforged heroic items. Is it a sure thing you will get a thunderforged heroic item? no, but then you can therefore it is by proxy technically selling BiS gear and that you can't say it isn't.

    As per the "we'll never see this on western realms" can you absolutely with 100% certainty say this? Are you the person behind this idea and therefore know exactly where it will be deployed? If not then you can't say for certain that it won't be done here. That is the point many of us are making. We want to make our voices loud and clear now before Blizzard gets anymore of an inkling that this will be acceptable here. They have made it clear to us that the Asian market is only the first place they want to implement this which infers they have plans for other markets as well. And yes I know this isn't the official forums but they are currently down and there's a discussion about here so we are voicing our opinions here currently.
    Ladies and gentlemen, behold the massive hyperventilation that's going on here. Actually, it's not akin to selling gear. It's akin to buying Charms, which DO NOT guarantee gear. It's a gamble (everyone has the same chances), it's limited per week (everyone has the same limit), and more often than not, leaves you empty handed. That's the luck of the lottery. Let's be honest about what the real issue is here for all the whiners, at least regarding Charms, as we really have no other clue as to what Blizzard may or may not offer from an In-Game Store. It's not the purchase of Charms or other said convenience (EXP boost) items that irks them; they're butt hurt that others would be able to bypass doing dailies or other grinds for Charms. The real issue is time commitment; the whiners see their time and effort in game as more valuable than someone's time and effort out of game. Believe it or not, people who will pay for Charms are putting themselves more at risk that those who don't; if they lose on their bonus rolls, at least the person who didn't pay can say "well, my there goes the time I invested in grinding, better luck next week" whereas the person who paid loses both time AND money. Such is the nature of gambling. I say if people want to pony up and chance the odds, let them. Bonus rolls don't guarantee anything, you can't say otherwise.

    I'm not arguing for or against an In-Game Store, but you make it seem as if heroic thunderforged BiS gear is going to rain from the skies. Guess what? It won't, just like it doesn't currently.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Whopoppedhero View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, behold the massive hyperventilation that's going on here. Actually, it's not akin to selling gear. It's akin to buying Charms, which DO NOT guarantee gear. It's a gamble (everyone has the same chances), it's limited per week (everyone has the same limit), and more often than not, leaves you empty handed. That's the luck of the lottery. Let's be honest about what the real issue is here for all the whiners, at least regarding Charms, as we really have no other clue as to what Blizzard may or may not offer from an In-Game Store. It's not the purchase of Charms or other said convenience (EXP boost) items that irks them; they're butt hurt that others would be able to bypass doing dailies or other grinds for Charms. The real issue is time commitment; the whiners see their time and effort in game as more valuable than someone's time and effort out of game. Believe it or not, people who will pay for Charms are putting themselves more at risk that those who don't; if they lose on their bonus rolls, at least the person who didn't pay can say "well, my there goes the time I invested in grinding, better luck next week" whereas the person who paid loses both time AND money. Such is the nature of gambling. I say if people want to pony up and chance the odds, let them. Bonus rolls don't guarantee anything, you can't say otherwise.

    I'm not arguing for or against an In-Game Store, but you make it seem as if heroic thunderforged BiS gear is going to rain from the skies. Guess what? It won't, just like it doesn't currently.
    ^this. A million times this. I personally would rather farm for charms, seeing as they are easily gained, and I lose no money when my roll goes bunk. But some people have more money than time. Why should we begrudge them?

  6. #106
    The Patient gorocz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    Blizzard, please don't transform World of Warcraft into a pay-to-win scheme.

    Well, cuz...you know... We already PAY !
    Might be a first step towards an f2p model...

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganksinatra View Post
    ^this. A million times this. I personally would rather farm for charms, seeing as they are easily gained, and I lose no money when my roll goes bunk. But some people have more money than time. Why should we begrudge them?
    Absolutely. I presume a lot of people don't do dailies to max their reps, farm gold, etc because when I completed all of those in MoP, I was left with 1800+ Charms. I have so many, I don't know what to do with them all! But if the avenue existed, and someone wanted to buy Charms with real money as opposed to spending an hour farming Charms thru dailies for three Coins per week, who am I to object? Whether you're the person who pays or the person who grinds, both must face the bonus roll system, which is gambling, which guarantees nothing.

    Seems that people can't get past the 'What ifs." All I hear from whiners is "WHAT IF people buy Charms and then win a bonus roll?" "WHAT IF Blizzard sells [insert convenience item here] and it affects me?" But the one notable question I don't see being asked is "What if I'm wrong and blizzard goes about 'P2W' in a right and fair way?"

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    First, we’ll be testing the in-game store with some new kinds of items we’re looking into introducing (in Asian regions, at the outset) based on player feedback: specifically, an experience buff to assist with the leveling process, as well as an alternate way to acquire Lesser Charms of Good Fortune.
    And so, WoW Asia delves into the p2w model.
    Lesser charms win the game?
    What..?
    Maybe if these lesser charms when made into raid charms are 100% to give you heroic loot then yea, you could argue its p2w. But its not

  9. #109
    Dreadlord DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syridian View Post
    Or you could just.. do them. I have a feeling they may even be being added to 'encourage' that.
    Except that, RBGs are the bane of every melee that isnt a rogue or frost DK.

    Ret pala? Nah we need a frost DK!
    Warrior? We'd rather get a rogue!

    It's the same with Challenge modes. I love to do them, but people are *always* looking for the classes that make the best comp.

  10. #110
    Hurray yet another holy paladin nerf, cause watching ptr they really needed it (total sarcasm...)

    Darth

  11. #111
    Dreadlord DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorocz View Post
    Might be a first step towards an f2p model...
    WoW and F2P aren't meant to be in the same sentence

  12. #112
    They can now make the game as grindy as hell when it comes to those charms.
    Farm 200 lesser charms to get the raid charms.
    No time ? No problem, go to our store and buy the lesser charms out right.

    It opens up the path for terrible "abuse" on their part.
    If this "quickening" of obtaining stuff will take off, I believe they will never ever nerf experience required ever again (incoming boost of pandaria level bracket via the store), nor will they nerf item requirement for stuff. (like the charms)
    If anyone complains it's "too grindy"... well, tough cookies, go buy some boosts from the store or grind away.

    It feel way to F2P-esque, way to F2P-esque, mounts and pets were not really a time advantage into getting something from in game.. charms are.

    I don't like these practices, they will encourage them to make the game less fun to incentivize the usage of their store.

    Not going to happen ? Not in one big step, but slowly ? It might.

  13. #113
    Grunt Amaravati's Avatar
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    RE: PvP Mounts
    I can't believe people are complaining about these being PvP only. Do you guys not recall the hundreds of raid specific mounts in game? Honestly winning 100 3v3 in a season is not that hard, the RBGs will be a bit more difficult because of finding a team (I would rather they lessen the RBG wins and add another requirement for random BGs).

    RE: Blizzard Store
    Who needs experience potions anyways? Anyone that has leveled an alt recently can tell you that it's incredibly easy (like you can get to max level with in a week if you really wanted to). As far as Lesser Charms go, they're incredibly easy to get in game. Really all you have to do is dailies once and a few pet battles and you can get your 50 for the week. This is a non-issue to me as well.

    RE: Strand of the Ancients
    Finally they are lessening the reliance on those stupid demolishers. Players have been complaining for ages about vehicle oriented battlegrounds and it's nice that they are addressing this by making bomb dropping and defending far more important. On live I find most players can't even tell you where the bomb spawns are most of the time.
    I wonder if this bomb change will effect Isle of Conquest as well, might make Hangar too strong.

  14. #114
    Monthly fee and F2P bullshit? Good one Blizzard.

  15. #115
    I can see it now leveling is going to be tuned around this xp bonus, So it is the norm to use it and if you don't you are behind, Same with the charms they will just make them harder and harder to get till you basically have to buy them. It already happened with the mounts, All the really nice ones go in the store.

  16. #116
    "Moar armor! Moar spikes! Moar blades! Cover up the fact that it's the exact same mount as any other! MOAR!"

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    if buying levels was something that could make you quit then you would have already done so by now given the RaF option

    i don't want meaningful gear or achievements to be for sale, but everything else that people buy already from 3rd parties is fine with me. so if blizzard gives someone the option to buy an xp boost maybe they take that instead of risking their info with a website leveling service. blizzard profits and prevents a customer service issue when people get scammed.

    the only items i might could accept being in the store would be toys, heirlooms, and transmogrification pieces. any more serious items would probably be crossing the line for my taste.
    Even toys, heirlooms and transmorg is kind of bullshit. I know pets and mounts are bought at the moment but atleast its outside the game. Those should be added to the bmah anyways. Do you know how easy it will be to sell gold in game?

    All these items are things that could be implemented in game to do what you may ask? Get us out in the world like they seem to want or at least say they want us to do.

    I have always been weary since activision has bought in. If this gets out of the asian testing market it won't be long until just about everything can be bought. I remember a time when they told us they never go down this route. Now they are and it is a shame. I've played this game since the end of '06 and have been a strong supported but this is dumb and will drive out hardcore players.

    I don't want to play a game that I already pay for and have advertisements after I log in "to go buy this new product". It is bad enough that they do it on the installer. That is about as far as I want to see them advertise these extra purchases.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganksinatra View Post
    That's a TON of assumptions on your part. Since you're apparently some sort of psychic, can I get this week's lotto numbers? These are totally quality of life items they are selling. If they still gate xp gain at whatever it is for top output with the leveling items we already have, the only people who would buy these is those who don't have that gear already. Furthermore, getting the lesser charms is easy already. Merely being able to pay instead of farm for them is a QoL improvement. It is NO DIFFERENT than spending an hour doing dailies or farming Barrens bosses, they just have more income and less time. And I think this is what it really all comes down to. Jealousy has a way of tainting someone's perception of life.

    EDIT: Oh, and I've played up until last month from launch. When my guild started screwing me out of loot with these odd rules, I knew that the community had soured enough for me to bail, and I am playing Rift until FFXIV:ARR or EQNext launches. There was NEVER a plan to sell RealId as an extra sub. It was more conjecture and assumption from people like you that started that rumor.
    Oh, knowing that they tried to sell realid services after the success from pet store is like being a psychic? Watching ALL cash shop games doing that is being psychic?

    Funny guy...

    Don't compare heirloom gear that is inside the game (that we alread pay, remember that part?) with something that you will only be able to get with extra money. That is bypass gameplay. You think lesser charms now are easy to farm. Like the next "lesser" will be as easy.

    All the gatting everyone hated from the reps at the begining of an xpac? Just buy our elixir of rep and never think of that again!!! Don't wanna buy? Ok, just do those millions of dailies with lower rep gain.

    Never wondered what were those "3rd spec" tests? Yes. Just like any other cash shop game with "QoL only stuff". You won't be able to buy it for 1 million gold, only in cash store "BUY! NOW!". Some games like SWTOR, you even buy transmog function, extra action bars, extra raid lockouts, etc.

    But swtor and others went F2P and said that since the beginning when they talked about selling stuff in a shop... that's the best part here. Blizzard is not even thinking on going F2P with WoW. That's the only new thing from Blizzard compared to other games.

    Can't notice how elusive they're trying to be talking about this only being a test to remove the need to go to blizzard store to buy something (like they did with the ticket system, no need to alt tab from the game and open a web browser) and etc... and in the middle of those statements saying in a way almost like "don't pay attention to this guys" that they will sell more stuff like that? Why not test with a pet learning item? a mount learning item?

    They totally opened the gates when they claim "player feedback" on it. "Players asked for us to sell entry level raid gear, so we're selling it, but just a few pieces and...", "players totally said to us that they want those mounts from achievements to be removed and sold on the store...", anything can happen and don't fool yourself on believing that you will be able to tell them what they can sell or not. You allowed their "player feedback" excuse. They wont "balance" the store around a "minority".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Whopoppedhero View Post
    Absolutely. I presume a lot of people don't do dailies to max their reps, farm gold, etc because when I completed all of those in MoP, I was left with 1800+ Charms. I have so many, I don't know what to do with them all! But if the avenue existed, and someone wanted to buy Charms with real money as opposed to spending an hour farming Charms thru dailies for three Coins per week, who am I to object? Whether you're the person who pays or the person who grinds, both must face the bonus roll system, which is gambling, which guarantees nothing.

    Seems that people can't get past the 'What ifs." All I hear from whiners is "WHAT IF people buy Charms and then win a bonus roll?" "WHAT IF Blizzard sells [insert convenience item here] and it affects me?" But the one notable question I don't see being asked is "What if I'm wrong and blizzard goes about 'P2W' in a right and fair way?"
    Because they'll totally charge a price that will be on par with the grind for the charms, right? All cash shops do the right thing... It will always be easy to get anything they sell on the shop, ingame.

    Sry, you don't see that question because... there is no fair P2W model.

    The name says it... pay to win.

    Why do you even ask for that question since by paying a sub + needing to buy stuff to win with extra $$ isn't even remotely fair anyways???

    And since when asian players (or any player at all) would be doing that kind of player feedback in such an amount... "please let me buy lesser charms!!!"???

    See? they can claim anything with the "player feedback".

    For example, the next "realm 1st" achievements for leveling race/classes will now be P2W.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Whopoppedhero View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, behold the massive hyperventilation that's going on here. Actually, it's not akin to selling gear. It's akin to buying Charms, which DO NOT guarantee gear. It's a gamble (everyone has the same chances), it's limited per week (everyone has the same limit), and more often than not, leaves you empty handed. That's the luck of the lottery. Let's be honest about what the real issue is here for all the whiners, at least regarding Charms, as we really have no other clue as to what Blizzard may or may not offer from an In-Game Store. It's not the purchase of Charms or other said convenience (EXP boost) items that irks them; they're butt hurt that others would be able to bypass doing dailies or other grinds for Charms. The real issue is time commitment; the whiners see their time and effort in game as more valuable than someone's time and effort out of game. Believe it or not, people who will pay for Charms are putting themselves more at risk that those who don't; if they lose on their bonus rolls, at least the person who didn't pay can say "well, my there goes the time I invested in grinding, better luck next week" whereas the person who paid loses both time AND money. Such is the nature of gambling. I say if people want to pony up and chance the odds, let them. Bonus rolls don't guarantee anything, you can't say otherwise.

    I'm not arguing for or against an In-Game Store, but you make it seem as if heroic thunderforged BiS gear is going to rain from the skies. Guess what? It won't, just like it doesn't currently.
    Wich would be even worse, since gambling with real money is not cool in a game that is played by children btw (even forbidden in some countries, hello D3 RMAH).

    And you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. Blizzard said it alread, it's not only xp elixir and lesser charms, it's things like that... based on... unknow player feedback... notice the huge gray area here.

    Not to mention, you're seeing it with the current model were you alread PAY a sub and everything that is not a pet or mount, is only acquired in game with in game currency/effort.

    Yes, you will see reputation elixirs, 3rd spec (remember the little testing they did with it? hehehe), stuff to lower the level required for mounts, extra raid locks/drops, etc. Just check other games.

    And the game will be balanced around that. No decent $$ would be made if it's easier to grab 50 coins in game than it is to tell them your CC number. Take SWTOR for example, they have F2P and Subscription models. At the same time, they said that they need to keep the store interesting even to the subscribers, so they had to balance the game so that even as a subscriber (that actually receive an small amount of the cash shop currency each month) felt the need to buy something. Hopefully not only with their monthly "subscription" currency.

    And for now, on top of all that, will still be a subscription based game. Unlike the rest.
    Last edited by VanishO2; 2013-07-09 at 08:10 PM.

  19. #119
    Everyone that says the potions are just quality of life you don't need them are correct. However, would you be ok with Blizzard increasing the amount of experience needed per level by 100% to where you have to use the potion to get back to pre potion levels? They could very well do that to create further incentive to buy them. I say that instead of adding potions, why not just decrease xp requirements by 100% since we already pay a sub fee. The same could be said for everything they have put into that store. All those mounts and pets, except maybe for ones where the proceeds go to charity as long as 100% of the proceeds went to charity, should have just been put into the game.

  20. #120
    Mechagnome Nexsa's Avatar
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    Lesser charms aren't even hard to get. Go to Isle of Thunder and do the treasure run. I get lucky and get 5 to 10 charms each week.

    Also, any "noob" with the charms is only going to be using them in LFR. I'm sure the average player isn't going to be doing normal or heroic raids, since it's known the majority of the player base is now LFR, since it's cried about a lot now. They pay a bit of money for something so easy to get in game, they roll on LFR and might not even get anything. They just wasted money. Not your money, mind you.

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