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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by bdtrunks View Post
    Everyone that says the potions are just quality of life you don't need them are correct. However, would you be ok with Blizzard increasing the amount of experience needed per level by 100% to where you have to use the potion to get back to pre potion levels? They could very well do that to create further incentive to buy them. I say that instead of adding potions, why not just decrease xp requirements by 100% since we already pay a sub fee. The same could be said for everything they have put into that store. All those mounts and pets, except maybe for ones where the proceeds go to charity as long as 100% of the proceeds went to charity, should have just been put into the game.
    I agree with this. By adding ingame micro transaction items - Blizzard is lowering the quality of the game for those that already are paying just the sub for the game. 100% extra XP and lesser charms... should not be paid for extra in a subscription based game. The game should just balance it so that those items are not needed to enjoy the game to the max without the grind.

    Basicly - Blizzard is adding premium service on top of the subscription. That means that those paying subscription only will be getting less quality than those that pay more. And.. this is exactly why FREE TO PLAY games are not forcing players to pay 15 dollars per month to just log in.

    Its ok for ppl that pay NOTHING to get less quality... but when you pay money.. you deserve the full quality and the game should be balanced for that.... not for those that pay extra on top of subscription.

  2. #122
    I REALLY(and sincerely) hope they don't include coins in the store. As an end game raider, this could really promote pay to win like behavior.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexsa View Post
    Lesser charms aren't even hard to get. Go to Isle of Thunder and do the treasure run. I get lucky and get 5 to 10 charms each week.

    Also, any "noob" with the charms is only going to be using them in LFR. I'm sure the average player isn't going to be doing normal or heroic raids, since it's known the majority of the player base is now LFR, since it's cried about a lot now. They pay a bit of money for something so easy to get in game, they roll on LFR and might not even get anything. They just wasted money. Not your money, mind you.
    Lesser charms can be easy to get now. But there are other expansions and they might ramp up the number required. But the real question is.... if so many ppl dont like the charm system... why are they not removing it and finding better system that suits the subscription model? If ppl are paying sub for a grind they hate... they will eventually quit when they realise Blizzard is adding more and more grind to make more and more cash through micro transactions.

  4. #124
    So to sum up today's MMO-Champ posting comments:

    "<insert stupidity here> COULD happen, but hasn't and I can't prove it will."
    "WHAT IF <insert stupidity here> happens?!?!?"
    "I BET <insert stupidity here> will happen!"
    "YOU KNOW THEY WILL <insert stupidity here>."
    Oh, and my favorite out and out stupidity/lie of the day: "Remember when they were gonna charge for RealID?!?!?"....nope, sure don't. Because that never happened. Ever. Only in your whiny. self entitled heads.

    Apparently, the group of players on MMO-Champion are omniscient or something, as they all claim to see the future, attack anyone who says anything different than their assumptions as if they are infallible, and are able to live in some alternate universe where things that didn't happen here happened there.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganksinatra View Post
    So to sum up today's MMO-Champ posting comments:

    "<insert stupidity here> COULD happen, but hasn't and I can't prove it will."
    "WHAT IF <insert stupidity here> happens?!?!?"
    "I BET <insert stupidity here> will happen!"
    "YOU KNOW THEY WILL <insert stupidity here>."
    Oh, and my favorite out and out stupidity/lie of the day: "Remember when they were gonna charge for RealID?!?!?"....nope, sure don't. Because that never happened. Ever. Only in your whiny. self entitled heads.

    Apparently, the group of players on MMO-Champion are omniscient or something, as they all claim to see the future, attack anyone who says anything different than their assumptions as if they are infallible, and are able to live in some alternate universe where things that didn't happen here happened there.
    I think ppl have every right to wonder what will happen. Lets not forget that Blizzard managed to turn D3 into RMAH joke rather than good solid long term gameplay and character progression. Thats the real concern for many players atm with WOW.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Whopoppedhero View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, behold the massive hyperventilation that's going on here. Actually, it's not akin to selling gear. It's akin to buying Charms, which DO NOT guarantee gear. It's a gamble (everyone has the same chances), it's limited per week (everyone has the same limit), and more often than not, leaves you empty handed. That's the luck of the lottery. Let's be honest about what the real issue is here for all the whiners, at least regarding Charms, as we really have no other clue as to what Blizzard may or may not offer from an In-Game Store. It's not the purchase of Charms or other said convenience (EXP boost) items that irks them; they're butt hurt that others would be able to bypass doing dailies or other grinds for Charms. The real issue is time commitment; the whiners see their time and effort in game as more valuable than someone's time and effort out of game. Believe it or not, people who will pay for Charms are putting themselves more at risk that those who don't; if they lose on their bonus rolls, at least the person who didn't pay can say "well, my there goes the time I invested in grinding, better luck next week" whereas the person who paid loses both time AND money. Such is the nature of gambling. I say if people want to pony up and chance the odds, let them. Bonus rolls don't guarantee anything, you can't say otherwise.

    I'm not arguing for or against an In-Game Store, but you make it seem as if heroic thunderforged BiS gear is going to rain from the skies. Guess what? It won't, just like it doesn't currently.
    Everyone has the same chance IF they farm the max amount of them every week, those that don't have an infinitely worse chance of getting bonus loot over a purchaser. That is the definition of pay to win, look it up.

    Idc either way but they are headed down a slippery slope (yeah I said it, wanna fight about it?). If it were to go live without massive sub loss, you would have to be corky from life goes on naive to believe everything in game wouldn't be in the store for cash.

    I can afford to max them out for every registered user on this forum every week, I personally just can't see paying for something to advance in a game that already charges a subscription. To each his own I guess.
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  7. #127
    Bloodsail Admiral Shudder's Avatar
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    Oh lawdy! It's so hard to get out of the game to buy pets and mounts! Bull shit, it's an in game cash shop to charge us for crap that should be included in the subscription. Pay to win, gg.

  8. #128
    more lame pvp BS :/

    f**king hate pvp, but that horse would be perfect for my dk.

  9. #129
    Bloodsail Admiral Shudder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaxter View Post
    I will gladly pay for a 100% buff experience. Or to avoid farming fraking coins
    I bet you would, why work for things when you can just use your welfare check for it?

  10. #130
    They're greedy, it's a big part why I've quit.

    I understand every company wants to make money. However, you best understand that I also have a right and really a duty to give them the middle-finger when I feel they're crossing a line as a consumer.

    1) We pay a monthly subscription.

    2) Their services are insanely overpriced.

    3) You still have to buy the expansions.

    4) Interestingly enough, even with this revenue, their customer service continues to degrade.

    5) They've already got quite a few items up for digital download, just aesthetic. I already disagreed with this to begin with but it never did get too out of hand.

    6) Now they're adding in bonuses, temporary boosts, etc. like many games have incorporated except, oh wait, they're non-subscription.

    In other words, their greed officially has no bounds and I am exhausted with it. Remember how they were discussing creating a "membership plus" model for extra features like cross-realm partying? Yeah, that, should've been a very clear and evident sign they have no interest in playing nice with people who already bleed coin to play their game.

    Not to mention, Blizzy, your shit is getting boring and repetitive. You're not doing enough to refresh the formula and make dealing with this kind of crap not tempting in the least.

    Great game but it's age is showing bad and it's publisher's gluttony is even more glaring.
    Last edited by Kitterfly; 2013-07-09 at 10:54 PM.

  11. #131
    Let's see, 2004 the sub was 14.95 US, 2013 the sub is 14.95 US. Not a single raise in the price in all that time, they've merely stood on the quality of the game to insure the income. They introduce something that will be test marketed in Asia (where transactions like these are extremely common and already accepted, and even demanded) to possibly make some more money and keep the lights on and even enhance the game for others even further, people flip right out.

    This will have no bearing on anyone's in-game success, and if it makes it to the US/EU servers, then it enhances QOL giving those with actual *gasp* paying jobs that have the disposable income but not the time except to raid and enjoy the game for what it is in their spare time. Maybe your raiders that are always late for raid because they have work, or those that didn't have the time to grind dailies will be able to further benefit your raid with rolls they wouldn't have before. For those that commit way too much time, you'll still enjoy the benefits of your time in-game the same way. The difference is they are starting to recognize that there is a market for those that will pay for a little assistance. For me, I'm ambivalent about how a person achieves their raid group responsibilities, just that they achieve them.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Idletime View Post
    Let's see, 2004 the sub was 14.95 US, 2013 the sub is 14.95 US. Not a single raise in the price in all that time, they've merely stood on the quality of the game to insure the income. They introduce something that will be test marketed in Asia (where transactions like these are extremely common and already accepted, and even demanded) to possibly make some more money and keep the lights on and even enhance the game for others even further, people flip right out.

    This will have no bearing on anyone's in-game success, and if it makes it to the US/EU servers, then it enhances QOL giving those with actual *gasp* paying jobs that have the disposable income but not the time except to raid and enjoy the game for what it is in their spare time. Maybe your raiders that are always late for raid because they have work, or those that didn't have the time to grind dailies will be able to further benefit your raid with rolls they wouldn't have before. For those that commit way too much time, you'll still enjoy the benefits of your time in-game the same way. The difference is they are starting to recognize that there is a market for those that will pay for a little assistance. For me, I'm ambivalent about how a person achieves their raid group responsibilities, just that they achieve them.
    You crack me up.

    Thank you for acting like the subscription is the only way they make money and even more humorously, dismissing it as if it's not an insane revenue unto itself.

    This is what makes corporate America so awesome to deal with. We have companies figuring out ways best to screw us out of our hard-earned money while there are consumers figuring out the best way to graciously accept said screwings. We can't possibly lose with this winning combination.

    Awesome, awesome, double-scoop-of-fracking-ice-scream awesome.
    Last edited by Kitterfly; 2013-07-09 at 11:00 PM.

  13. #133
    Bloodsail Admiral Shudder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Not sure if serious...
    So imagine if you can pay to get your weekly 50 lesser charms.. you choose to get them that way...
    How exactly is it P2W when you are still, just like everyone else, limited to 3 runes per week?

    If they let you somehow gain additional Runes, then you'd have a point.
    Not sure if serious...
    So imagine you can pay to get gear off ji-kun..you choose to get it that way...
    I mean you're still limited to just what ji-kun drops, just like everyone else that chose not to pay and went and got to him in game. If they let you somehow get more gear off ji-kun that everyone else then that would be a point? Yeah thought so. Think before you post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganksinatra View Post
    It's entitled whiners like you that have made this community toxic, and a large reason why I left.
    Um...you're still here. You wiped on leaving. l2leave.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    I think ppl have every right to wonder what will happen. Lets not forget that Blizzard managed to turn D3 into RMAH joke rather than good solid long term gameplay and character progression. Thats the real concern for many players atm with WOW.
    Again, your opinion.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Idletime View Post
    The difference is they are starting to recognize that there is a market for those that will pay for a little assistance. For me, I'm ambivalent about how a person achieves their raid group responsibilities, just that they achieve them.
    There's always been a market for those what will pay for a little assistance - what assumption do you think the western F2P market has been operating under for several years now?

    The real difference is that these other companies don't believe the market will widely accept required fees alongside monetized convenience (pay to win isn't exactly a common occurrence in the western market, the vast majority of cash shop items are vanity, cosmetic, or convenience, with a few including content, and even fewer selling legit gear...and even fewer than that selling useful, end-game gear)...it's typically seen as a trade-off.

    None of these companies think they could get away with having required fees and monetizing convenience items at all - Blizzard, as of right now, seems to think they can.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    Again, your opinion.
    The fact that you could spend 6 months grinding for an item and not get it, or spend less than a days pay (even at minimum wage) and get it in a few minutes shopping on the RMAH, lends more than enough credibility to that idea. The game itself is pretty good, has gotten better, and hopefully sees even better refinement when they get around to finishing the itemization patch...but the RMAH and its buddy the GAH, with the current system, do actively undermine the gameplay of a game focused around farming for loot.

    Still, the RMAH surrounds a separate issue (the black market of goods sold between players) than issues that come with a company created cash shop.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post

    None of these companies think they could get away with having required fees and monetizing convenience items at all - Blizzard, as of right now, seems to think they can.
    I guess being market leader by a fair margin gives them the confidence to try and do it. As far as I'm concerned, nothing changes.
    The Blizzard Store already exists, and except for an authenticator, I've never bought anything. I don't need xp boosts, I don't need to buy tokens that are faceroll easy to get, I don't need mount skins that are "tainted" by a RL price tag. The only thing I'd consider buying are extra professions slots if they'd implement those.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post



    The fact that you could spend 6 months grinding for an item and not get it, or spend less than a days pay (even at minimum wage) and get it in a few minutes shopping on the RMAH, lends more than enough credibility to that idea. The game itself is pretty good, has gotten better, and hopefully sees even better refinement when they get around to finishing the itemization patch...but the RMAH and its buddy the GAH, with the current system, do actively undermine the gameplay of a game focused around farming for loot.

    Still, the RMAH surrounds a separate issue (the black market of goods sold between players) than issues that come with a company created cash shop.
    Random loot is just that, random. On the flipside, good items that you do find but which aren't suited to your specific needs/wants can be sold on the GAH/RMAH, effectively cancelling out each other. You have to keep in mind that blizzard isn't selling stuff on the RMAH, other people are.
    I could argue that you don't even have to use the AH, but the terrible drop system they have right now kinda screws me over there. I sincerely hope they improve the quality of found items like they promised to, that should make self found gameplay more viable.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Everyone has the same chance IF they farm the max amount of them every week, those that don't have an infinitely worse chance of getting bonus loot over a purchaser. That is the definition of pay to win, look it up.

    Idc either way but they are headed down a slippery slope (yeah I said it, wanna fight about it?). If it were to go live without massive sub loss, you would have to be corky from life goes on naive to believe everything in game wouldn't be in the store for cash.

    I can afford to max them out for every registered user on this forum every week, I personally just can't see paying for something to advance in a game that already charges a subscription. To each his own I guess.
    Getting 50 lesser elder charms is stupidly easy..."infinitely worse chance"? Do Isle of Thunder quests/kill mobs/dailies/etc. Now if the charms were a random drop off a handful of mobs at a rate of 1%, then we're talking P2W. As long as lesser elder charms are ridiculously easy to earn in-game, its not P2W.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Woakerio View Post
    Getting 50 lesser elder charms is stupidly easy..."infinitely worse chance"? Do Isle of Thunder quests/kill mobs/dailies/etc. Now if the charms were a random drop off a handful of mobs at a rate of 1%, then we're talking P2W. As long as lesser elder charms are ridiculously easy to earn in-game, its not P2W.

    That's how I feel. I won't be buying any out of principal, also in part that I get my mogu runes every week and still have more lesser than I know what to do with. If someone wants to purchase some lessens on their own I don't see the problem, my personal experience isn't affected one bit by it. My main point is, I'm not going to complain about ant true p2w schemes (aka auto h-raid clears or even h quality items dropping in lfr, etc) until there's really something to complain about.

  19. #139
    Bloodsail Admiral Shudder's Avatar
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    You're naive if you think they'll keep lesser charms insanely easy to get. Why would they charge for them if they were easy? That makes no sense, they'll make no sales. They'll make them harder to acquire to tempt you into purchasing them. That's just insanely obvious.

  20. #140
    I'm genuinely surprised at how many people are ok with Blizzard selling gear in a cash shop because that is precisely what they are doing with the lesser charms. Alot of people seem to constantly overlook the fact that the lesser charms in a very direct way lead to gear. I pointed this out earlier in the thread. As others like the person above me pointed out if you believe that they will allow non "premium*" players to be able to get the lesser charms as easy as they do now 1 of 2 things is happening. Either your just deluding yourself and don't want to believe the writing that is currently appearing on the wall or Blizzard is even more stupid and idiotic then any of us could have ever thought. Personally I'm leaning towards people deluding themselves, because Blizzard has in the past shown that they are willing to try anything and do anything to make an additional buck.

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