Mage Free-For-All Thread?

[rhandric]

That was a joke. Hopefully it was funny and mood-setting?

I dunno how I ever raided 40mans back in the day (or 25mans later on). my FPS chugs like a bro in 25m LFR. Could never survive in a competitive raid environment. 10mans - yeahhhhhhh/

Simpler (and fewer) spell effects

[Polarthief]

That was a joke. Hopefully it was funny and mood-setting?

I'm aware, but I'm being serious! My comp runs 10m NO PROBLEM on everything maxed. Everything at mediumish (so mechanics don't become a problem) my comp just sucks horribly ;_;

I even closed like EVERYTHING (skype, steam, etc) and turned off addons, but no luck

[mrgreenthump]

That was a joke. Hopefully it was funny and mood-setting?

I dunno how I ever raided 40mans back in the day (or 25mans later on). my FPS chugs like a bro in 25m LFR. Could never survive in a competitive raid environment. 10mans - yeahhhhhhh/

Spell details^^ they have gone up like mad from cata onwards.. And upwards of 40 different spells per second.. yee its gonna get messy.

[rhandric]

Ill explain you the basefact:
You can compare the overhaul of warlocks lvl90 to an overhaul of mage lvl90.

Why not? (I assume you mean can't, otherwise you're just reinforcing our point) Because they're different classes? Because one's the pet class of the expansion and the other is mages? They're completely redesigning at least one of the warlock t6 talents, and I say at least because at this point we don't know the full extent of their changes; surely they can allocate similar resources to mages to do the same.

[Deleted]

surely they can allocate similar resources to mages to do the same.

And that wouldn't be enough. What we need is not a small overhaul of one talent. We need a complete overhaul from scratch. Thats why we dont get something in 5.4
Warlocks have a overhaul at the start of MoP and it was good. It helped so all they must do now is changing small things and its fine.
We are to complex and to deep like a cable tangle. If they only change one talent everything would go down the river.

[Polarthief]

And that wouldn't be enough. What we need is not a small overhaul of one talent. We need a complete overhaul from scratch. Thats why we dont get something in 5.4

Oh, so giving Warlocks a complete overhaul CLASSWIDE from scratch is fine, and then another L90 overhaul while leaving us to shit? Alright.

[Frost1129]

And that wouldn't be enough. What we need is not a small overhaul of one talent. We need a complete overhaul from scratch. Thats why we dont get something in 5.4
Warlocks have a overhaul at the start of MoP and it was good. It helped so all they must do now is changing small things and its fine.
We are to complex and to deep like a cable tangle. If they only change one talent everything would go down the river.

This is probably your best argument. It would be very difficult to change Invocation without altering a huge amount of other spells (Unless the change is basically the same thing - a flat, near permanent damage increase across the board).

They've still put a lot of work into other classes and relatively little into mages.

[Deleted]

Oh, so giving Warlocks a complete overhaul CLASSWIDE from scratch is fine, and then another L90 overhaul while leaving us to shit? Alright.

So you are speak to me? Super idea. So i will give u an answer. Because Warlocks were in a worster state at the end of cata than mages. Beside that warlocks allways dont have the "prestige" like mages. So Blizz decided they can only do one class so they decided to take warlocks because they needed it more.
You can blame Blizz they do things for money...

[crysie]

Sorry if I couldn't respond earlier to the posts made my Toma to my posts he referenced...sorry if you felt attacked Polar.

Anyway,

Again: Dont compare one tier to another only because the same number stands in the front. At least think about the idea behind these tier. Then choose 2 which are equal of the idea and then compare.

What exactly is the "idea" behind the mage 90 talents? What alternative play style does IW bring to a mage? I only compared priests to mages in the sense that I don't feel hindered at all when picking my talents. They provide flavor and feeling of success when used in the appropriate situation, plus you're not too heavily punished if you pick one that is your favorite for any fight. The priest tier is an example that WORKS according to Blizzards design philosophy.

Other fact: He was speaking about Healing. I dont think comparing Healer and DDs is in any way equal. If we look for example at shadows u will see that their they will nearly allways take Halo because it brings the most DMG.

The talents alter game play, the role you take should not affect that. For shadow, it is mainly an issue of Halo vs Cascade. Halo is superior to Cascade because it does damage AND healing, plus its more forgiving if adds are very clumped together. I can 100% guarantee Divine Star would be used if there were fights where the majority of the time players need to be dpsing stacked adds. That falls upon raid design, not talent design.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

All I can say is the design for level 90 talents IS VERY DIFFERENT compared to other classes. Some get interesting nukes or power up. Others get this really weird situational stuff etc etc. I don't like the level 90 talents at all. I take IW for the passive Mana regen buff(Or was it that and SP can't remember). Personally I'd be fine with a Arcane Fire and Frost version for level 90 talents but that's just me >_>

While I enjoy Arcane, I wouldn't mind using a different school of magic every now and then.

[Deleted]

I can 100% guarantee Divine Star would be used if there were fights where the majority of the time players need to be dpsing stacked adds. That falls upon raid design, not talent design.

And i would guarantee that we would take RoP on an lets say..... basic Patchwerkfight. Again this things?

[Shangalar]

You are, as always, ignoring the fact that Blizzard thought warlocks needed and overhaul and mages did not. They still feel mages do not need an overhaul, simply a modification to some talents to make the gameplay smoother.

Arcane 5.0 is the most a mage spec got as an overhaul - shifting and tossing damage and mechanics around. I strongly believe that this is the most any of our specs can get.

They failed with critical mass, but they like hot streak so they will just design another workaround for crit, not change the gameplay.

Frost has also been overhauled during this very expansion. They changed the behavior of damage sources, but not the damage sources themselves. I know that I'm taking too much of a liberal definition of the word 'overhaul', but again, I am quite confident that we will not be seeing any serious reworks - definitely not now and most likely not for 6.0.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You are, as always, ignoring the fact that Blizzard thought warlocks needed and overhaul and mages did not. They still feel mages do not need an overhaul, simply a modification to some talents to make the gameplay smoother.

Arcane 5.0 is the most a mage spec got as an overhaul - shifting and tossing damage and mechanics around. I strongly believe that this is the most any of our specs can get.

They failed with critical mass, but they like hot streak so they will just design another workaround for crit, not change the gameplay.

Frost has also been overhauled during this very expansion. They changed the behavior of damage sources, but not the damage sources themselves. I know that I'm taking too much of a liberal definition of the word 'overhaul', but again, I am quite confident that we will not be seeing any serious reworks - definitely not now and most likely not for 6.0.

I'm not convinced.

[Frost1129]

And i would guarantee that we would take RoP on an lets say..... basic Patchwerkfight. Again this things?

Divine star is taken by healers though. And with the way raid encounters are being made, there will not be another patchwork style fight.

[crysie]

And i would guarantee that we would take RoP on an lets say..... basic Patchwerkfight. Again this things?

But there are no longer any patchwerk fights being brought about. That is the issue, the talent works to restrain us in a way that does not fit the current raid model. Something needs to change. IW is almost identical to the proposed AV change, yet it hasn't received any changes. Why?

Divine star is taken by healers though. And with the way raid encounters are being made, there will not be another patchwork style fight.

Exactly, that's why I made the comment about how if Blizzard designed more fights where the core mechanic of it was kill stacked adds, Shadow would pick Divine Star.

[Polarthief]

You are, as always, ignoring the fact that Blizzard thought warlocks needed and overhaul and mages did not. They still feel mages do not need an overhaul, simply a modification to some talents to make the gameplay smoother.

Arcane 5.0 is the most a mage spec got as an overhaul - shifting and tossing damage and mechanics around. I strongly believe that this is the most any of our specs can get.

They failed with critical mass, but they like hot streak so they will just design another workaround for crit, not change the gameplay.

Frost has also been overhauled during this very expansion. They changed the behavior of damage sources, but not the damage sources themselves. I know that I'm taking too much of a liberal definition of the word 'overhaul', but again, I am quite confident that we will not be seeing any serious reworks - definitely not now and most likely not for 6.0.

Not asking for a complete overhaul, just the L90 talents as they fucking lied about making "huge" changes this patch when Warlocks just got a complete overhaul on theirs. NOT COOL.

[Shangalar]

The talents yes, as was already stated, but not the core gameplay.

But I see we're making progress, you stopped screaming 'rework rework' :P

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not asking for a complete overhaul, just the L90 talents as they fucking lied about making "huge" changes this patch when Warlocks just got a complete overhaul on theirs. NOT COOL.

KJC was OP for locks. They changed it to crap, Warlocks defended it. Then it got changed to something suitable. I don't think staying here and bitching and moaning about it will do us any good even if they do look here.

[crysie]

KJC was OP for locks. They changed it to crap, Warlocks defended it. Then it got changed to something suitable. I don't think staying here and bitching and moaning about it will do us any good even if they do look here.

People try to bring it over there, but mage hate and a certain somebody ______ prevent those voices from being taken seriously.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People try to bring it over there, but mage hate and a certain somebody ______ prevent those voices from being taken seriously.

Well, neither option seems to working. And yes, people seem to think Mages are fine, I think they're and bear with me this is a made up estimate 70% fine.