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  1. #141
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Well, neither option seems to working. And yes, people seem to think Mages are fine, I think they're and bear with me this is a made up estimate 70% fine.
    Until they play a Mage and finally realize they were wrong :\

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    The talents yes, as was already stated, but not the core gameplay.

    But I see we're making progress, you stopped screaming 'rework rework' :P
    I've accepted the fact that that's not coming, but when they say "l90 talent change is too big" to go and change ALL THREE of the Warlock talents, it's a bit bullshit.

    Before anyone tells me "BUT KJC NEEDED CHANGING!", I agree, but as does our L90 talents, yet they barely even touched them despite us giving feedback since MOP BETA.

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  2. #142
    So here it goes again? Priest talents are not better than Mage talents? Really?

    Mage talents vs Priest talents (from Shadow PoV).

    Tier 1.
    Priests choose whether they want a really good root that doesn't break from damage, fearing bot or mind control.
    Mages choose whether they want a fraction of % higher dps with PoM unless you are Fire and really need it, mobility with Blazing Speed or another type of mobility which is really meh.
    Both tiers are ok, Mind Control and Icy Flows are meh.

    Tier 2.
    Priests choose between mobility tool integrated into defensive spell, dedicated mobility spell or snare removal/immunity spell.
    Mages choose a shield. Weak passive, safe and easy-to-use but costing a gcd or the one that requires awareness.
    Both tiers are ok.

    Tier 3.
    Priests choose whether they want an instant mana-free proc, a more powerful dps/manaregen cooldown or a casted burst spell.
    Mages choose between good AOE control, very situational AOE control (only niche is Frost with Frostbomb, which is removed in 5.4 anyway) or good single-target control.
    Awesome Priest tier, not bad Mage one - 1 talent sucks.

    Tier 4.
    Priests have an on demand big instant heal, passive big safeguard shield or active gtfo spell.
    Mages have an instant aggro-remover and damage soaker, passive life-saver and active heal/double block.
    Both tiers are good.

    Tier 5.
    Priests are given a passive execute-phase boost, which can be cheesed to work for the whole encounter sometimes, a powerful dps cooldown and an instant proc which also boosts secondary resource generation.
    Mages may choose between 3 different-colored bombs that cleave a little differently, one of which in not instant, sucks for target swaps and is not directly but heavily nerfed in 5.4.
    Awesome Priest tier, boring Mage tier that forces alien for Mages multidotting playstyle on all specs.

    Tier 6.
    Priests choose whether they want a powerful, not capped AOE damage and healing burst, a more frequent one for tightly packed friends and foes or a spell for spaced out targets.
    Mages can choose if they want to be a junkie and have to take a dose every 60 seconds, whether they want their legs broken or if they want to ensure someone beats 'em up every 25 seconds. So a junkie, a cripple or a masochist - well how do you like that superpowers tier!
    Priests have an awesome tier, Mages are bestowed with a MoP up their ass.

    Priest - ok, ok, awesome, ok, awesome, awesome.
    Mage - ok, ok, not bad, ok, boring and homogenizing, f-ed up.

    Yeah, just the same.

  3. #143
    Honestly, if the 90 tier was removed and heavily reworked, the scaling issues of Frost and Fire addressed and some work done on Arcane, I'd admit mages would be in a pretty decent spot.

    I would push for a clearer line of spec identity rather than the color of our spells and a boring pet for Frost.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    You are, as always, ignoring the fact that Blizzard thought warlocks needed and overhaul and mages did not. They still feel mages do not need an overhaul, simply a modification to some talents to make the gameplay smoother.

    Arcane 5.0 is the most a mage spec got as an overhaul - shifting and tossing damage and mechanics around. I strongly believe that this is the most any of our specs can get.

    They failed with critical mass, but they like hot streak so they will just design another workaround for crit, not change the gameplay.

    Frost has also been overhauled during this very expansion. They changed the behavior of damage sources, but not the damage sources themselves. I know that I'm taking too much of a liberal definition of the word 'overhaul', but again, I am quite confident that we will not be seeing any serious reworks - definitely not now and most likely not for 6.0.
    Couldn't agree more. Blizzard has pretty much stated there won't be any major reworks like there was for warlocks, so people should just get "OMG MAGE REWORK 6.0!!!111!!1!" out of their heads. Even if they did a complete rework like they did to warlocks, I'm fairly confident either rogues or hunters would come before mages. So at the very most, in 6.0 just hope for 90 talent changes, scaling issues fixed for frost and fire, and maybe some changes with arcane again (arcane has just turned out to be a complete mess of a spec imo).

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylol View Post
    So at the very most, in 6.0 just hope for 90 talent changes, scaling issues fixed for frost and fire, and maybe some changes with arcane again (arcane has just turned out to be a complete mess of a spec imo).
    If we have to HOPE for L90 talent changes in 6.0, I think most Mages won't be playing Mage for much longer.

    That's going to make me quit WoW altogether, actually.

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  6. #146
    Couldn't agree more. Blizzard has pretty much stated there won't be any major reworks like there was for warlocks next expansion, so people should just get "OMG MAGE REWORK 6.0!!!111!!1!" out of their heads. Even if they did a complete rework like they did to warlocks, I'm fairly confident either rogues or hunters would come before mages. So at the very most, in 6.0 just hope for 90 talent changes, scaling issues fixed for frost and fire, and maybe some changes with arcane again (arcane has just turned out to be a complete mess of a spec imo).
    Hunters and rogues will get more in depth changes because it's harder to define the specs from each other. The problem with mages is that the spells LOOK different so it's harder to have that same sense of non spec identity. But, when looking at the differences between each of the lock specs, all the pures deserve the same.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    If we have to HOPE for L90 talent changes in 6.0, I think most Mages won't be playing Mage for much longer.

    That's going to make me quit WoW altogether, actually.
    Well yea, guess I worded that badly because they pretty much will have to change 90 talents and the scaling issues and whatnot.

  8. #148
    If we have to HOPE for L90 talent changes in 6.0, I think most Mages won't be playing Mage for much longer.

    That's going to make me quit WoW altogether, actually.
    Made me quit my mage as my main. I only decided to play him now that invocation is TOLERABLE. I have a lot of fun on my priest and warlock, don't leave if you find enjoyment in other classes of the game

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylol View Post
    Well yea, guess I worded that badly because they pretty much will have to change 90 talents and the scaling issues and whatnot.
    Hopefully they realized through CM how bad the Crit issue is with Fire, and they realize how shit Frost is (at the end of the expansion) due to scaling.

    Arcane... I don't even want to touch that atm...

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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylol View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Blizzard has pretty much stated there won't be any major reworks like there was for warlocks, so people should just get "OMG MAGE REWORK 6.0!!!111!!1!" out of their heads. Even if they did a complete rework like they did to warlocks, I'm fairly confident either rogues or hunters would come before mages. So at the very most, in 6.0 just hope for 90 talent changes, scaling issues fixed for frost and fire, and maybe some changes with arcane again (arcane has just turned out to be a complete mess of a spec imo).
    Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath for a 6.0 overhaul for mages; mages won't likely make the cut until, I dunno, 10.0, after the years and expansions of being seen as Blizzard's pet class (regardless of any validity)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by crysie View Post
    Hunters and rogues will get more in depth changes because it's harder to define the specs from each other. The problem with mages is that the spells LOOK different so it's harder to have that same sense of non spec identity. But, when looking at the differences between each of the lock specs, all the pures deserve the same.
    I agree. I think all pures need a lot of work done next expansion because none of us actually have much spec identity anymore. Hopefully Blizzard focuses on that but ya never know.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by crysie View Post
    Made me quit my mage as my main. I only decided to play him now that invocation is TOLERABLE. I have a lot of fun on my priest and warlock, don't leave if you find enjoyment in other classes of the game
    I'm barely finding enjoyment in this game as is. Raiding is all that I have left, but if Mage is gonna be shit for another expansion, I'm out.

    I lived through Cataclysm (being forced into Arcane for a majority). Now living through MoP. I'm not doing this again.

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  13. #153
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    /shrug

    Cata was better for Mages IMO then say MoP. Yeah you heard me.
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  14. #154
    I'm barely finding enjoyment in this game as is. Raiding is all that I have left, but if Mage is gonna be shit for another expansion, I'm out.

    I lived through Cataclysm (being forced into Arcane for a majority). Now living through MoP. I'm not doing this again.
    Likewise, though i just prefer to raid on my other toons now. I completely understand what you're feeling though. Remember scorch weaving fire in 4.0? Being stuck in Arcane from 4.1-4.3 was not fun. The most fun I've had on my mage was FFB spec in Naxx and TTW Fire in ICC.

    I agree. I think all pures need a lot of work done next expansion because none of us actually have much spec identity anymore. Hopefully Blizzard focuses on that but ya never know.
    We can only hope but as of now I'm being doubtful.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    /shrug

    Cata was better for Mages IMO then say MoP. Yeah you heard me.
    Overall? Yes it was.

    I was forced into Arcane during it longer than I was in MoP though. (1.5 tiers vs 0.5 tiers) Just saying it was still bad.

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  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Overall? Yes it was.

    I was forced into Arcane during it longer than I was in MoP though. (1.5 tiers vs 0.5 tiers) Just saying it was still bad.
    There was no reason to play Arcane outside of Firelands. I know because Arcane was the only spec I wanted to play and I had to play Fire in 4.0.3, then Arcane and Fire were somewhat similar in 4.1 so I could pull it off, but Fire was still better. Then Arcane was dominant in 4.2 and finally in 4.3 Arcane was (for serious progression) similar to Fire on Hagara and simply more useful on Spine. The rest was Fire with Arcane sometimes coming close on Madness and Ultraxion with some luck. Even I raided Fire in DS until we overgeared it, keeping my OS Arcane.

  17. #157
    I just thought about it. I remember a long time ago when I created my mage. The description the class gave had something along the lines of "masters of Aoe". Where did that go?

    If it were up to me I'd have our 90 talents updated to improving our signature AoE spells. A frozen gale replacement for blizzard, a flame pillar or meteor for flame strike and a worm hole for arcane explosion (maybe something that pulsates arcane explosions?) I just think it'll add flavor and bring back one of our old prowess's

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by crysie View Post
    If it were up to me I'd have our 90 talents updated to improving our signature AoE spells. A frozen gale replacement for blizzard, a flame pillar or meteor for flame strike and a worm hole for arcane explosion (maybe something that pulsates arcane explosions?) I just think it'll add flavor and bring back one of our old prowess's
    Nah, they wouldn't create an upgrade making Blizzard an inferior version of the spell! =)

  19. #159
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    There was no reason to play Arcane outside of Firelands. I know because Arcane was the only spec I wanted to play and I had to play Fire in 4.0.3, then Arcane and Fire were somewhat similar in 4.1 so I could pull it off, but Fire was still better. Then Arcane was dominant in 4.2 and finally in 4.3 Arcane was (for serious progression) similar to Fire on Hagara and simply more useful on Spine. The rest was Fire with Arcane sometimes coming close on Madness and Ultraxion with some luck. Even I raided Fire in DS until we overgeared it, keeping my OS Arcane.
    It pays to be best friends with a Fire Mage *Sunglasses*.
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  20. #160
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    It pays to be best friends with a Fire Mage *Sunglasses*.
    You mean, Fire Mages used to pay me to give them Focus Magic? Yessss. Rather, it was a set of rules:
    1. 2 Arcane + 1 Fire = Focus Magic on Fire and on our Moonkin GM
    2. 1 Arcane + 1 Fire = Focus Magic on Fire if the Moonkin GM doesn't notice
    3. 2 Arcane = Focus Magic on eachother and tolerate the funny and random GM insults
    4. 2 Arcane alternative = I give Focus Magic to the GM, the other Mage gives it to me
    5. 3 Arcane = Focus on eachother and tolerate the funny and random GM insults

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