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  1. #321
    So... Saurfang is a Pandaren? Judging from his voice.

  2. #322
    But where is new sound files by Jason Hayes, the vanilla wow lead composer?!

  3. #323
    Mechagnome Extrakt's Avatar
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    They should execute Vol'jin for not securing the docks for the Alliance. Traitorous troll

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    that just makes him even more of an arse then, for only choosing the side who he thinks is going to win, and then bitches about they don't.

    He views both sides as equal....his only motivation was to be on the winning side no matter what side it was. He wants to unite both horde and ally and he didnt care which one came out on top. He wants a unified azeroth to face the Burning legion.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrakt View Post
    They should execute Vol'jin for not securing the docks for the Alliance. Traitorous troll
    I see no problem for alliance there, only one SI7 ship flying above the Orgrimmar. They were prepared, if horde rebels failed
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  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Silencer View Post
    I see no problem for alliance there, only one SI7 ship flying above the Orgrimmar. They were prepared, if horde rebels failed
    Devs on Alliance in 5.3: 'It's espionage! You get to work behind enemy lines, to prepare the Durotar and Bladefist Bay for the Alliance's landing, while ensuring as little casualties for the Alliance as possible.

    5.4: 'Troll's couldn't hold Bladefist Bay'.

    Not a problem for the Alliance as much a problem for us, the players, who technically achieved nothing and were 100% worthless for 5.3.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Devs on Alliance in 5.3: 'It's espionage! You get to work behind enemy lines, to prepare the Durotar and Bladefist Bay for the Alliance's landing, while ensuring as little casualties for the Alliance as possible.

    5.4: 'Troll's couldn't hold Bladefist Bay'.

    Not a problem for the Alliance as much a problem for us, the players, who technically achieved nothing and were 100% worthless for 5.3.
    That's a very narrow way of looking at it.

    Yes, the Horde rebellion didn't manage to seize Bladefist Bay, but that doesn't mean the Alliance derived zero benefit from working with Vol'jin in 5.3. The basic idea was to ensure that Garrosh would be forced to fight a battle on two fronts, while the Alliance would only have to fight a battle on one. Looking at the broader picture, that's absolutely what is happening. For example there's a good chance that without the rebellion Garrosh would of been able to concentrate virtually his entire defense force on Bladefist Bay, which would of turned what was already a rough landing into an outright impossibility.

    Now that isn't to say that 5.3 didn't have it's issues, just that this isn't one of them.
    Roleplaying, hardcore Raiding, running LFR on the occasional weekend, PvPing, rolling alts, achievement hunting, pet battling, or just enacting an endless series of whims, I don't care how you play WoW. Just as long as you have fun doing it.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    That's a very narrow way of looking at it.

    Yes, the Horde rebellion didn't manage to seize Bladefist Bay, but that doesn't mean the Alliance derived zero benefit from working with Vol'jin in 5.3. The basic idea was to ensure that Garrosh would be forced to fight a battle on two fronts, while the Alliance would only have to fight a battle on one. Looking at the broader picture, that's absolutely what is happening. For example there's a good chance that without the rebellion Garrosh would of been able to concentrate virtually his entire defense force on Bladefist Bay, which would of turned what was already a rough landing into an outright impossibility.

    Now that isn't to say that 5.3 didn't have it's issues, just that this isn't one of them.
    Normally I don't complain about Ally gameplay getting jipped in favour of Horde, because the story and resources usually make up for it.

    However, everything you said about 5.3, did not require help from the Alliance. Garrosh would have always been focused on the rebels. The Alliance never started the rebellion, they are just helping them. If it was some large Alliance force with it's own base and what not to distract Garrosh from the bay, than yes, I would agree with you.

    But it's not. It's a troll base, led by a troll rebellion. We were sent there for two reasons 1) Cause dissent within the Horde 2) Secure a landing for the Alliance. 1 didn't even require our help. The Horde was already fighting with itself, we were simply making the flames slightly more wild. However, the second reason, to secure a landing, was never achieved. Which means the whole point of the Alliance in 5.3 was to help Vol'Jin with his part of the rebellion. That's it.

    Though I can't complain, because all this means is that the trolls/rebellion really are helpless without the Alliance.

  9. #329
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Normally I don't complain about Ally gameplay getting jipped in favour of Horde, because the story and resources usually make up for it.

    However, everything you said about 5.3, did not require help from the Alliance. Garrosh would have always been focused on the rebels. The Alliance never started the rebellion, they are just helping them. If it was some large Alliance force with it's own base and what not to distract Garrosh from the bay, than yes, I would agree with you.

    But it's not. It's a troll base, led by a troll rebellion. We were sent there for two reasons 1) Cause dissent within the Horde 2) Secure a landing for the Alliance. 1 didn't even require our help. The Horde was already fighting with itself, we were simply making the flames slightly more wild. However, the second reason, to secure a landing, was never achieved. Which means the whole point of the Alliance in 5.3 was to help Vol'Jin with his part of the rebellion. That's it.

    Though I can't complain, because all this means is that the trolls/rebellion really are helpless without the Alliance.
    Though Vol'jin did not only fail the Alliance, the blood elves and forsaken will feel the heat as well. They come by boat after all.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Though Vol'jin did not only fail the Alliance, the blood elves and forsaken will feel the heat as well. They come by boat after all.
    Ya that is true.

    I guess the lore reason could be Garrosh views the enemies who can come by sea (Ally, BE, Forsaken), as larger threats than the Troll rebellion, so he reinforced the bay more than anything else.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Ya that is true.

    I guess the lore reason could be Garrosh views the enemies who can come by sea (Ally, BE, Forsaken), as larger threats than the Troll rebellion, so he reinforced the bay more than anything else.
    Which is a good call, as trolls are pathetic.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  12. #332
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Well, Babo, think about this: if the Alliance helps out the rebels, it can keep the Darkspears and Tauren from being crushed before the Forsaken and blood elves can come reinforce their numbers. Judging by 5.4 voice files, most of the Huojin who weren't in Pandaria when the rebellion broke out have been imprisoned and the goblins would probably be in Razor Hill cooking up some siege weaponry rather than on the front lines.

    This, in turn, keeps the Kor'kron from going after Alliance lives, which is the predominant reason Varian supports the adventurer's choice to strike up a coalition with the rebels (in essence, making the adventurer, the stand-in for us players, the de facto Alliance representative for the operation in the Barrens, which is the most political pull we've had yet). And by teaming up with the Darkspear Rebellion during the Siege itself, he saves even more Alliance lives by not putting them in the middle of a three-way melee during a siege in hostile territory.

    As for saving the Darkspears, well, the dude's Lawful Good these days. Metzen even said during the press tour early last year that Varian would be going out of his way to be the better man and specifically order against civilian casualties and the like. For all intents and purposes, during the Siege the rebels are his allies, and all expansion long he's been busting his ass to win back the respect of his allies that his outbursts caused him--stands to reason he does the same here in the interest of giving the rebels a good reason to agree to a ceasefire once the dust settles, so both sides can go home and get their shit straightened back out.

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  13. #333
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Wrathion sided with the alliance... ha.... ha.... fuck him.

    Suddenly all my respect for him just drains off.

    Really, I thought he was cool acting outside conflict and even manipulating people, but actually saying he wanted the alliance to destroy the horde, and when Varian allows it to survive, he calls him an idiot.... well, kudos to varian, and fu to wrathion.
    Well, he sided with the Horde at the beggining, cause he wanted an united Azeroth, he thought that Garrosh had the power to unite all the races, even if that union were forced, but Garrosh even destroyed his own horde, so... Wrathion saw these as a great oportunity for the Alliance..., The revels needed help and the alliance gave them what they needed, that made it easier for the Alliance to destroy the horde, and maybe... make the horde soldiers their own...

  14. #334
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Which is a good call, as trolls are pathetic.
    Or maybe because Varian/Lor'themar/Sylvanas naval fleets combined arriving to directly assault Orgrimmar are an understandable "greater" concern.

  15. #335
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Ya that is true.

    I guess the lore reason could be Garrosh views the enemies who can come by sea (Ally, BE, Forsaken), as larger threats than the Troll rebellion, so he reinforced the bay more than anything else.
    Would make sense, I mean what good can Tauren and Trolls do there, but blood elves ,forsaken, humans,Dwarves and Gnomes making a safe landfall would be really bad for Garrosh.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  16. #336
    I dont understand, some of you guys are saying that varian is dieying and when he screamed "Jaina" did she die or wut, please explain i'm pretty curious.


  17. #337
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockob View Post
    I dont understand, some of you guys are saying that varian is dieying and when he screamed "Jaina" did she die or wut, please explain i'm pretty curious.

    If I have to guess, it might be possible to screw up in the raid so that some of them die.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  18. #338
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockob View Post
    But, if we redo the raid and make it, are they alive, and what about the lore, after 5.4 are they alive? or are they dead even if we make it through SoO?
    if there is any mechanic in a raid to save a characters life, even if your group fails, its still counted as canon lore that character is alive at the end of it.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    if there is any mechanic in a raid to save a characters life, even if your group fails, its still counted as canon lore that character is alive at the end of it.
    so even if we fail the raid, the next expansion jaina and varian are alive?

  20. #340
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Wrathion saw the vision of the future and as he stated before, divided we can not survive it.
    Wrathion's "vision" is worthless, not even Velen can have certain visions that clearly say, without a doubt, which will be the future that await the world; and a pup like Wrathion is hardly better in this than a priest old something like 25.000 years or even more, no matter how much "prestigious" Wrathion's lineage is.

    So what's the fastest way to unite people in one nation? Have one side win and rule the losers.
    Yeah, this is the problem, is the fastest, or in other words, the easiest way, that bring an apparent benefit in the short-term and a complete disaster in the long one.

    For how much time the "losers" will let themselves be ruled by the "winners"? How long can last that? More you suppress people and more that people will become hungry of freedom, and in due time will obtain a will and a determination that the fat and healthy "rulers" lost completely over the years.
    Wrathion's vision say nothing about when the Legion will find Azeroth, he just saw that one day, eventually, they will find it. What would happen if this "successful" reign united under one banner will crumble and fall apart, dividing and messing the world a lot more than is it now, excatly or little before or after the coming of the Legion? Good luck in defending the world at that point.

    Wrathion had just a vision, but doesn't have the wisdom. The cub is frigthened, hopeless, scaried and tried to achieve the easiest and short-sighted way for exploit the races of Azeroth in the best way he deems necessary for defend it.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-07-11 at 06:53 PM.

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