1. #1

    Max-min: a regressive raiding concept

    The purpose of this thread is to introduce a regressive raiding concept to provide players with something interesting to do while experiencing the vast amounts of old content.

    The raiding style is called max-min. You literally maximize your enjoyment by playing minimalistic. In the current form of the game, this can apply to all dungeons through BRS (at least as a raiding concept).

    Background:
    In the original version of WoW, classic dungeons had no cap on the number of party members. This was pretty quickly changed, but only to a certain extent. All classic dungeons to this day have a player cap of 10. Also, over the years, classic dungeons have received numerous difficulty boosts, but these go relatively unnoticed because gear & gameplay has improved at a much faster rate. This is where the regressive mindset comes into play. The player cap and liberal entry requirements are taken advantage of.

    Idea:
    A group of 10 players enters classic dungeons as a raid at the very minimum possible level while wearing minimalistic gear. This works due to the very low entry requirements for dungeons. Scarlet Monastery requires level 21 to enter, while the bosses are close to 40. This vast level difference, in essence, causes every dungeon to resemble a raid.

    Execution:
    - Group consists of 5 dps, 3 healers, 2 tanks (2nd because extra mobs are likely to agro).
    - To facilitate ease of execution, all classes can have sets of green gear prepared before hand. I.e. if I'm a tank, I'll have a set of green craftable tank gear ready for level 20, 30, 35, 40, etc.
    - No heirlooms, blues, or extended profession bonuses.
    - All dungeons must be entered by players with sufficient experience clearance as not to level past the minimum.

    It's as simple as that. Get a group of 10 friends together, re-roll your raid group, prepare your gear sets and profession leveling supplies, then get rolling! Not only do you get to experience classic dungeons again in all of their glory, but you get to travel by ground all over the world at dangerous levels (level 20's headed to mauradon = bad news).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Sounds too specific to the level requirements of each dungeon. Who wants to farm gear for some random level for one dungeon?

    The model where people keep a level 60, 70, 80 or 85 character around with gear for the expansion seems more uniform and universal. What you're saying seems like fun but way too much work and its likely in feasible.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Sounds almost as fun as punching myself in the face for the rest of the day.

    But really, there is no glory in dungeons, never was, never will be.

    Also, you'll never hit the level 38 mobs on your level 21, and youll get crushing blows in return.
    With green gear? Oh god o.o
    Last edited by Tryana; 2013-07-11 at 10:09 AM.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  5. #5
    Why would anyone ever do this? And good luck getting 9 other people to join you, sounds like the most boring thing imaginable.

    You'll either do a dungeon you literally can't complete because you can't hit the mobs due to being under leveled, or you'll blow through everything because you have 10 people. The only challenge in this is getting 10 people together who are bored enough to do this, which will be hard, because turning off the game and staring at my desktop sounds significantly more fun.

  6. #6
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
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    how do you hit mobs 10+ levels above you?

  7. #7
    Field Marshal Athura's Avatar
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    Well I think it's a fun idea. However I doubt it will work.
    Purely because those mobs are not scaled as raid bosses. So you won't ever be able to hit those mobs.
    Better regret something that you have done, then regretting something you haven't

  8. #8
    Banned Bigbamboozal's Avatar
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    If you've ever called wow easy, here is a challenge. Buuuut you refute the idea without giving it due consideration or a chance. I think you guys just painted yourselves as typical close minded types who shit on everything all the time. It's quite possible you're truly sad you were not around when 'god made light' b/c you missed your chance to call the light stupid, squat your nutsack over it, and plunge the world into darkness for another 10,000 years.

    Seriously? b/c this way you can raid at low level, it's different, and interesting, and would be worth a LOT of laughs with the right friends.
    Too bad you're not open to things. It's only you you're limiting.Dungeons are boring b/c it's always been 5 people and done the same faceroll way in overpowered gears...for the most part. You guys...you piss and moan about needing and wanting a challenge, and someone IN the community comes up with something unique and really, quite clever, and here we are again, bitter mmochamp people, squatting nutsacks for the sake of being close minded.
    No guts no glory bitches.

    Infracted; Don't make rude posts. (Sonnillon)
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-07-12 at 12:20 PM.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    Seeing as 10 man will never offer a real raiding experience I don't see any point doing this.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    Seeing as 10 man will never offer a real raiding experience I don't see any point doing this.
    Congratulations. You've sparked the 10vs25 debate in a thread that isn't even anything to do with that.

  11. #11
    Game mechanics alone break the idea.

    Level 20 player vs Level 41 mobs = Very quickly dead players doing no damage, cause the chance to hit will need a minimum of like 15%, which that old gear doesn't have, at all.

    Really suggest you test this before you propose the idea to the community, cause the feasibility of the idea is so insane, it hurts to think about it.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  12. #12
    Moderator Uggorthaholy's Avatar
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    We used to do something similar, called it Ironman. Start @ level 1 and level your toons to 10. You could use any gear that dropped while leveling and quest rewards, but only that.

    Enter deadmine @ level 10, and run it until you can enter the next dungeon, and so forth. grind it out through instances only, only using dropped gear, all the way to 60.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    IMRLYMADGUIZ
    Yeah just :

    It's nothing like raiding at low level
    Hit/Exp caps
    Crushing blows
    Have fun with your level 20 tank in greens getting 1 shot every pull, with the mobs proceeding to go to town on the rest of the group.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    Sounds almost as fun as punching myself in the face for the rest of the day.

    But really, there is no glory in dungeons, never was, never will be.

    Also, you'll never hit the level 38 mobs on your level 21, and youll get crushing blows in return.
    With green gear? Oh god o.o
    This made me laugh at 6:45 am. Thanks a lot.

  15. #15
    scrolling combat text: miss, dodge, miss, dodge, miss, dodge

    seriously, killing lvl83 faction bosses at lvl70 before you could level to level 80 taught me that 13+ lvls is just not fun. Unless you can kill same-level players while you are doing it.

  16. #16
    As a response to the doubters of being able to hit: there are ways around it. For one: titanium weapon chains can be used to grant large amounts of hit at lower levels. Also, preliminary testing on a random 41 alt tank in brd revealed enemies hitting for about 15-25% hp per hit. No where near 1 shot.

    Yes, there will be 50% miss or so for direct damage, but it's the new spin on a growing concept that's being presented here.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Apollet View Post
    As a response to the doubters of being able to hit: there are ways around it. For one: titanium weapon chains can be used to grant large amounts of hit at lower levels. Also, preliminary testing on a random 41 alt tank in brd revealed enemies hitting for about 15-25% hp per hit. No where near 1 shot.

    Yes, there will be 50% miss or so for direct damage, but it's the new spin on a growing concept that's being presented here.
    Also, level 10-20 healers can spam their most expensive heal until their 1 key breaks or their finger falls off.

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